Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
EatMoGrass
Member
I am having a hard time figuring out if I have these fuckers. I have all the symptoms mentioned including tons of flyers but they seem to be gnats. Leaves are fucked but I have never seen a crawling bug or an aphid. Looks like mag def. Again the thousands I have caught look like gnats. I used the mosquito dunks 4 weeks ago as described in that other thread but still have hundreds of those flyers. Just when the light turns off for the night I noticed I can shine a green light on a yellow sticky card and catch a bunch of them in minutes. Two nights ago I caught over 120 of them in 4 minutes with the green light and sticky trap just after the light turned off. How is best to confirm weather I have aphids, gnats, or both?
bicycle racer
Member
in laymens terms winged root aphids have a fat ass compared to more slender bodied fungus gnats. pray for fungus gnats there easy to destroy i simply water with a bt product gone in a week. root aphids are another matter entirely.
Just a quick update. I'm mid way thru harvesting and I finally got some photos to share. Sorry about the poor quality, I just put my digi cam up to my scope ocular.
I'm now starting to think I am only dealing with Fungus Gnats, and that they may be introducing a pathogen into my crops. I can find very few of the adults, and I think I may have some winged immatures (or some other species, maybe the pics will show). My root balls are very healthy looking/smelling and I can't seem to find any grubs/pupae in the roots under the scope. Maybe someone can help me diagnose by looking at these pics.....
Adult Fungus Gnat?
Immature gnat, or some other species??? The antennae seem much more segmented
I just found one of these bugs in my garden. First time I have seen one that looks like the ones in the pics above. The winged bugs Ive seen before were fatter and just plain different in every way. I can't say for sure whether it's the top example or the bottom example though. It wasn't flying though. It was RUNNING and goddamn it was quick! Anyway thought Id share that I have these sort of bugs too and had never seen them before.
(ETA: Fwiw, I think both bugs in the pics above are the same species, just slightly different stages of life. They look too similar to be completely different. The question is are these aphids or fungus gnats?)
rooring husky
New member
Does anyone know how much the Bayer Citrus / Bayer TS plays a role on ppm? (and in what dosages)
And also I agree with a few people above me who have mentioned about the use of imid...I would normally disagree with the use of imid and other "harsh" pesticides...BUT this shit works!!!
I have tried many many many treatment recommendations with no positive results...I bought everything and anything that I could get locally and through recommendation...the only positive results (out of 15+ products/treatments) I saw were from azatrol which stopped the cycle for a few days (but they always ended up coming back), and also imid...which broke the cycle..
Its funny how the solution to the RA problem can be found at Home depot...wait until one of the big name nute brands releases it at the hydro stores and charges 5x for it..
Anyways...whether we argue about merit vs. bayer ...we can all agree on one thing...That root aphids suck!..
And this threat needs to be stickied!
And also I agree with a few people above me who have mentioned about the use of imid...I would normally disagree with the use of imid and other "harsh" pesticides...BUT this shit works!!!
I have tried many many many treatment recommendations with no positive results...I bought everything and anything that I could get locally and through recommendation...the only positive results (out of 15+ products/treatments) I saw were from azatrol which stopped the cycle for a few days (but they always ended up coming back), and also imid...which broke the cycle..
Its funny how the solution to the RA problem can be found at Home depot...wait until one of the big name nute brands releases it at the hydro stores and charges 5x for it..
Anyways...whether we argue about merit vs. bayer ...we can all agree on one thing...That root aphids suck!..
And this threat needs to be stickied!
Yup. Those are fungus gnats, so in a way you are lucky. However, fungus gnats transmit pythium and possibly other things.
Here's a good link on bugs/fungus gnats with pictures:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...mage_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CB8Q9QEwBQ
Eatmo: Why do they look like gnats too you? The easiest way for me too tell (funny enough) is by watching their behavior with the naked-eye, as opposed to magnification. They really do look VERY similar to fungus gnats - plus it is hard to make out what they look like after you squish them.
Itsgrowtime: I actually still disagree with you. Keep glancing back and forth rather than looking at one photo and then looking at the other - it is easier to notice overall differences when you keep glancing back and forth as the subtleties are forgotten the second you switch your view. - note how much beefier the top guy is (thicker armor all over the abdomen) - notice how on the top one the body seems to be all one big straight-up-and-down unit (thorax and abdomen almost merged together) and the bottom one is MUCH more like a mosquito where the thorax is very separate (a hard area for the legs to be attached) and the abdomen looks like a completely separate structure (like a squishy gut-tube). Also notice the head on the top one- it is comparatively much smaller and looks like it is sitting on the shoulders of the critter - like it could be a critter from some "Attack of the Bug People" movie - its head seems to be oriented differently on the top critter than the one on the bottom - which looks much more like a classic mosquito.
The most telltale signs to me are their behavior - Root aphids are the ones that run around really quickly/frantically, can more easily see you coming, fly frantically and much more strongly, flick their wings around a lot (especially when emerging from substrate) which are iridescent and catch the light. Root aphids have a much denser body, so when you go to clap them the air pushes them out of the way much easier (where gnats are almost too easy to kill in every way - whether they are landed or flying). When you observe a gnat flying it has a VERY mosquito-like look to it, only much smaller; it is somewhat weak and super-light weight so it is easily thrown off by any sort of breeze. They cannot generally out-fly you and they do not generally notice you trying to kill them. Though they are roughly the same size and are hard to tell apart by image (even with the scoop, even when you have both), they are like night and day as far as behavior and the way they "seem" when you watch them.
Eatmo: if you use Bti (mosquito dunks etc) with each watering for a week to 10 days (and water other plants in your house etc) it should completely kill gnat larvae and they should NOT be proliferating (if they are still emerging in droves then they are almost certainly RA). A lot of the symptoms are from either virus or fungal (and possibly bacterial) infection. The fungus gnats can bring these as well and the larvae also act as vectors just like the RA (lesioning roots, spreading disease). This can allow pathogens to enter the plant and it compromises the plant's immune system, weakening it to all sorts of issues. Typically fungus gnats will not do nearly the damage RAs can do, but they can have very similar effects. Treatment is about keeping the plant healthy in as many ways as possible. Immune boosters are highly recommended - particularly AN Bud Factor X (until we can make a cheaper Salicylic Acid + chitosan solution) and the 2-part immune booster by Advanced Floriculture (the yellow-bottle Australian company). Reviving roots is also critical and can be an expensive uphill battle - the worse the damage the longer and more expensive recovery will be. This (the damaged and diseased status of RA-infected plants) is the MAIN reason that starting over is usually cheaper and will provide better results faster as long as you contain the problem.
It is also probably a good idea to do a foliar spray with a fungicide (biofungicides or Oxidate most highly recommended). The fungi most often manifest symptoms in the leaves and that is also how they spread spores, but if immune boosters don't cut it you may want to use a systemic fungicide (Exel is my top recommendation - it seems like it is not particularly toxic to animals or the environment, but is very new and has not been tested much yet). There is also Matalaxyl-M which seems a bit nastier but is well-established (though many fungi are now resistant to it) and propiconazole which looks a little nastier than Metalaxyl-M. All three should probably be veg-only - residual chemicals is a concern still, as with any true systemic). I would try spraying the plants down with Serenade first (or Companion). I would also recommend wtering-in a biofungicide; though they will likely out-compete many of the expensive additive mycos (likely rendering products like Great White far less useful) they will do a much better/more thorough job of colonizing everywhere and out-competing or destroying pathogens.
My top recommendation for soil or soil-less media would be Mycostop (as posted by RG) - but it is temp. sensitive (needs to be refrigerated) so it has to be shipped fast and then once you open the packet you have to use all of it. The products "Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia" (or "AN/EN as it is often reffed to) seem to have great potential from online feedback and the BMO product Super Plant Tonic (available on Ebay) is quite effective from my experience (and very reasonably priced). When bad root damage has occurred, organic nutrients and additives seem to far out-perform chem ferts (it seems like much about the organic microbiology contributes to healing roots/preventing further damage and warding off or killing pathogens and even RAs - many MANY soil bacteria and fungi have anti-pathogenic effects or secrete enzymes that kill, deter or interfere with insects). Additionally I speculate that chemical nutrients are harmful to damaged roots because of their electrical conductivity etc (like putting salt in a wound) and so I try to reduce my NPK values, especially from any chem fertilizer sources.
For hydro I would recommend: "Guardian Angel" or "Essential 1-0-1 Plus" as supplements to keep beneficials fed (if you just dump beneficial in the res and then use chem ferts the benes will have nothing to eat and will go into hibernation) and then use a good beneficial product. I have not evaluated products that are best for hydro in a side-by side. AN Voodoo Juice works VERY well but is the most pricey option I know of. Aqua Shield has provide me VERY good results with cuttings and clones. Companion is a select biofungicide for root disease suppression (and, like other bio-fungicides listed above, will probably out-compete other benes, so it is probably. not useful to use it in conjunction with other benes). I do not know about products like subculture etc - I have heard of people having bad issues with them. I would say that if you are going to add a powdered microorganism product to a hydro system that it is probably best to set up some sort of biofilter that catches and houses the colony in presence of aeration - bad things often result from too much free-floating organic debris and organisms.
There is also the "keeping it clean" route for hydro which I have advised AGAINST and still do. This route can be very appealing (if I can just kill everything in the water then the plants can just grow and be happy, right?) - but the reality is that "killing everything" is very difficult and levels of anything that will reliably "kill everything" for months at a time will often badly damage plants. The reality is that plants secrete root exudates to naturally feed the microbiology and to get rid of toxins. These secretions coat the roots and then float around in the water and are food sources just WAITING to be eaten. To effectively "keep things clean" you want at very least to set up some sort of system that filters out the debris from the roots. The most promising option then is a combination of a UV filter and an Ozone filter. A pump is used to cycle the res water through each unit and kill off anything living in it. In place of those units you can try various products (most of which are only available in Australia or Canada, with a few products in the UK). For farmers in AU, there are some very promising options: "Microbial" seems the most promising (kills microbes and stimulates immunity), Hydro Gold, Pythoff (monochloramine), and Micro-kill (kills microbes and stimulates immunity). Unfortunately it is not clear what is in most of these products or how safe they are. I have doubts about Pythoff, as most oxidizing agents (H2O2, peracetic acid, bleach) will do damage to plants as they approach "total-kill" thresholds, and the damage they do makes the plants more and more susceptible to attacks - to the point where the "total kill" threshold is typically past where it the control chemical is significantly phytotoxic - though pythoff does have some good reviews.
If you are anywhere outside the US, there is also Hydro-fungicide, which looks very promising (though again the main ingredient is secret so toxicity level is not apparent).
Again, I do not recommend any of these products as I have not used them and as more people seem to find methods of biological control that work consistently than "keeping it clean" methods. But if you ARE going to use one of these products, the bio-filter is crucial to remove food and chemical signal sources for pathogens.
***Also*** - for hydro growers, whether using beneficials or "keeping it clean" - there is a lot of really good research in the use of surfactants to protect hydro plants by destroying zoospores of pathogens. Unfortunately there is little out there (that I know of) in terms of ranking various surfactants or even discriminating between their potential for effectiveness based on mechanism of action. The surfactants used were generally nonionic surfactants and tended to be major spreader-sticker products from the agriculture industry, so most are not easily commercially available to the home gardener/hobbyist. One study found that it was not just non ionic surfactants - that other types also exhibited lysis on zoospores, including the anionic surfactant SDS or sodium dodecyl sulfate (better known as Sodium lauryl sulfate - SLS - or sodium laurilsulfate) - not to be confused with sodium laureth sulfate (the more common one in shampoos etc). SLS is unfortunately not easily available in concentrated form either - that I can find. However, the main ingredient in the surfactant most widely tested (Agral) which has now been cleared for use in greenhouse vegetable hydroponics in Australia, is also in "Monterrey No Foam A" surfactant - which IS available for consumer purchase. This product also contains isopropanol and fatty acids - the latter of which could possibly pose concern for hydro systems, but should probably be easily removed by beneficials and/or a bio-filter. This product may be very promising as a regular additive to hydro systems that is non-systemic and does not pose the toxicity of classic fungicides. It seems, however, that surfactants in general (regardless of the type) seemed to destroy zoospores and prevent the spread of pythium etc. -So it may just be best to go with something like coco-wet, which just happens to be a non-ionic surfactant. A few people speculated in other threads/forums about SM90's mode of action in suppressing pythium perhaps just being a wetting agent. If anyone can find information about which surfactants work better than others (or even just a good contrast of two or more), please share, as there is little information about which surfactants work best.
Note that they ONLY destroy zoospores and NOT active organisms/colonies, so they will not get rid of a problem (which is essentially what you see with SM90), just help prevent it from spreading. The addition of a surfactant is NOT a stand-alone solution, but will work well in conjunction with lowering water temps, increasing DO, using beneficials (or fungicide) and perhaps treating initially with a systemic fungicide.
dman and anyone having problems with roots/plant growth: depends on how damaged they are. All of the above applies to you as well. Many people see a quick (next day/48 hr) response from plants after imid (they are suddenly relieved) - others find that it shocks the plant a bit and makes it even a bit more sickly for a little while (possibly the heavy watering being the most significant cause). When the plants are badly damaged killing the RAs will not immediately cause them to bounce back. Careful assessment is required in the period of the week after treatment - where you should not make a final decision but continually re-evaluate whether the plant seems to be picking up and whether or not it is worth it to hang on to it.
Hope this has helped! Good luck, goodspeed, goodway.
-Willie Broheim
Itsgrowtime: I actually still disagree with you. Keep glancing back and forth rather than looking at one photo and then looking at the other - it is easier to notice overall differences when you keep glancing back and forth as the subtleties are forgotten the second you switch your view. - note how much beefier the top guy is (thicker armor all over the abdomen) - notice how on the top one the body seems to be all one big straight-up-and-down unit (thorax and abdomen almost merged together) and the bottom one is MUCH more like a mosquito where the thorax is very separate (a hard area for the legs to be attached) and the abdomen looks like a completely separate structure (like a squishy gut-tube). Also notice the head on the top one- it is comparatively much smaller and looks like it is sitting on the shoulders of the critter - like it could be a critter from some "Attack of the Bug People" movie - its head seems to be oriented differently on the top critter than the one on the bottom - which looks much more like a classic mosquito.
The most telltale signs to me are their behavior - Root aphids are the ones that run around really quickly/frantically, can more easily see you coming, fly frantically and much more strongly, flick their wings around a lot (especially when emerging from substrate) which are iridescent and catch the light. Root aphids have a much denser body, so when you go to clap them the air pushes them out of the way much easier (where gnats are almost too easy to kill in every way - whether they are landed or flying). When you observe a gnat flying it has a VERY mosquito-like look to it, only much smaller; it is somewhat weak and super-light weight so it is easily thrown off by any sort of breeze. They cannot generally out-fly you and they do not generally notice you trying to kill them. Though they are roughly the same size and are hard to tell apart by image (even with the scoop, even when you have both), they are like night and day as far as behavior and the way they "seem" when you watch them.
Eatmo: if you use Bti (mosquito dunks etc) with each watering for a week to 10 days (and water other plants in your house etc) it should completely kill gnat larvae and they should NOT be proliferating (if they are still emerging in droves then they are almost certainly RA). A lot of the symptoms are from either virus or fungal (and possibly bacterial) infection. The fungus gnats can bring these as well and the larvae also act as vectors just like the RA (lesioning roots, spreading disease). This can allow pathogens to enter the plant and it compromises the plant's immune system, weakening it to all sorts of issues. Typically fungus gnats will not do nearly the damage RAs can do, but they can have very similar effects. Treatment is about keeping the plant healthy in as many ways as possible. Immune boosters are highly recommended - particularly AN Bud Factor X (until we can make a cheaper Salicylic Acid + chitosan solution) and the 2-part immune booster by Advanced Floriculture (the yellow-bottle Australian company). Reviving roots is also critical and can be an expensive uphill battle - the worse the damage the longer and more expensive recovery will be. This (the damaged and diseased status of RA-infected plants) is the MAIN reason that starting over is usually cheaper and will provide better results faster as long as you contain the problem.
It is also probably a good idea to do a foliar spray with a fungicide (biofungicides or Oxidate most highly recommended). The fungi most often manifest symptoms in the leaves and that is also how they spread spores, but if immune boosters don't cut it you may want to use a systemic fungicide (Exel is my top recommendation - it seems like it is not particularly toxic to animals or the environment, but is very new and has not been tested much yet). There is also Matalaxyl-M which seems a bit nastier but is well-established (though many fungi are now resistant to it) and propiconazole which looks a little nastier than Metalaxyl-M. All three should probably be veg-only - residual chemicals is a concern still, as with any true systemic). I would try spraying the plants down with Serenade first (or Companion). I would also recommend wtering-in a biofungicide; though they will likely out-compete many of the expensive additive mycos (likely rendering products like Great White far less useful) they will do a much better/more thorough job of colonizing everywhere and out-competing or destroying pathogens.
My top recommendation for soil or soil-less media would be Mycostop (as posted by RG) - but it is temp. sensitive (needs to be refrigerated) so it has to be shipped fast and then once you open the packet you have to use all of it. The products "Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia" (or "AN/EN as it is often reffed to) seem to have great potential from online feedback and the BMO product Super Plant Tonic (available on Ebay) is quite effective from my experience (and very reasonably priced). When bad root damage has occurred, organic nutrients and additives seem to far out-perform chem ferts (it seems like much about the organic microbiology contributes to healing roots/preventing further damage and warding off or killing pathogens and even RAs - many MANY soil bacteria and fungi have anti-pathogenic effects or secrete enzymes that kill, deter or interfere with insects). Additionally I speculate that chemical nutrients are harmful to damaged roots because of their electrical conductivity etc (like putting salt in a wound) and so I try to reduce my NPK values, especially from any chem fertilizer sources.
For hydro I would recommend: "Guardian Angel" or "Essential 1-0-1 Plus" as supplements to keep beneficials fed (if you just dump beneficial in the res and then use chem ferts the benes will have nothing to eat and will go into hibernation) and then use a good beneficial product. I have not evaluated products that are best for hydro in a side-by side. AN Voodoo Juice works VERY well but is the most pricey option I know of. Aqua Shield has provide me VERY good results with cuttings and clones. Companion is a select biofungicide for root disease suppression (and, like other bio-fungicides listed above, will probably out-compete other benes, so it is probably. not useful to use it in conjunction with other benes). I do not know about products like subculture etc - I have heard of people having bad issues with them. I would say that if you are going to add a powdered microorganism product to a hydro system that it is probably best to set up some sort of biofilter that catches and houses the colony in presence of aeration - bad things often result from too much free-floating organic debris and organisms.
There is also the "keeping it clean" route for hydro which I have advised AGAINST and still do. This route can be very appealing (if I can just kill everything in the water then the plants can just grow and be happy, right?) - but the reality is that "killing everything" is very difficult and levels of anything that will reliably "kill everything" for months at a time will often badly damage plants. The reality is that plants secrete root exudates to naturally feed the microbiology and to get rid of toxins. These secretions coat the roots and then float around in the water and are food sources just WAITING to be eaten. To effectively "keep things clean" you want at very least to set up some sort of system that filters out the debris from the roots. The most promising option then is a combination of a UV filter and an Ozone filter. A pump is used to cycle the res water through each unit and kill off anything living in it. In place of those units you can try various products (most of which are only available in Australia or Canada, with a few products in the UK). For farmers in AU, there are some very promising options: "Microbial" seems the most promising (kills microbes and stimulates immunity), Hydro Gold, Pythoff (monochloramine), and Micro-kill (kills microbes and stimulates immunity). Unfortunately it is not clear what is in most of these products or how safe they are. I have doubts about Pythoff, as most oxidizing agents (H2O2, peracetic acid, bleach) will do damage to plants as they approach "total-kill" thresholds, and the damage they do makes the plants more and more susceptible to attacks - to the point where the "total kill" threshold is typically past where it the control chemical is significantly phytotoxic - though pythoff does have some good reviews.
If you are anywhere outside the US, there is also Hydro-fungicide, which looks very promising (though again the main ingredient is secret so toxicity level is not apparent).
Again, I do not recommend any of these products as I have not used them and as more people seem to find methods of biological control that work consistently than "keeping it clean" methods. But if you ARE going to use one of these products, the bio-filter is crucial to remove food and chemical signal sources for pathogens.
***Also*** - for hydro growers, whether using beneficials or "keeping it clean" - there is a lot of really good research in the use of surfactants to protect hydro plants by destroying zoospores of pathogens. Unfortunately there is little out there (that I know of) in terms of ranking various surfactants or even discriminating between their potential for effectiveness based on mechanism of action. The surfactants used were generally nonionic surfactants and tended to be major spreader-sticker products from the agriculture industry, so most are not easily commercially available to the home gardener/hobbyist. One study found that it was not just non ionic surfactants - that other types also exhibited lysis on zoospores, including the anionic surfactant SDS or sodium dodecyl sulfate (better known as Sodium lauryl sulfate - SLS - or sodium laurilsulfate) - not to be confused with sodium laureth sulfate (the more common one in shampoos etc). SLS is unfortunately not easily available in concentrated form either - that I can find. However, the main ingredient in the surfactant most widely tested (Agral) which has now been cleared for use in greenhouse vegetable hydroponics in Australia, is also in "Monterrey No Foam A" surfactant - which IS available for consumer purchase. This product also contains isopropanol and fatty acids - the latter of which could possibly pose concern for hydro systems, but should probably be easily removed by beneficials and/or a bio-filter. This product may be very promising as a regular additive to hydro systems that is non-systemic and does not pose the toxicity of classic fungicides. It seems, however, that surfactants in general (regardless of the type) seemed to destroy zoospores and prevent the spread of pythium etc. -So it may just be best to go with something like coco-wet, which just happens to be a non-ionic surfactant. A few people speculated in other threads/forums about SM90's mode of action in suppressing pythium perhaps just being a wetting agent. If anyone can find information about which surfactants work better than others (or even just a good contrast of two or more), please share, as there is little information about which surfactants work best.
Note that they ONLY destroy zoospores and NOT active organisms/colonies, so they will not get rid of a problem (which is essentially what you see with SM90), just help prevent it from spreading. The addition of a surfactant is NOT a stand-alone solution, but will work well in conjunction with lowering water temps, increasing DO, using beneficials (or fungicide) and perhaps treating initially with a systemic fungicide.
dman and anyone having problems with roots/plant growth: depends on how damaged they are. All of the above applies to you as well. Many people see a quick (next day/48 hr) response from plants after imid (they are suddenly relieved) - others find that it shocks the plant a bit and makes it even a bit more sickly for a little while (possibly the heavy watering being the most significant cause). When the plants are badly damaged killing the RAs will not immediately cause them to bounce back. Careful assessment is required in the period of the week after treatment - where you should not make a final decision but continually re-evaluate whether the plant seems to be picking up and whether or not it is worth it to hang on to it.
Hope this has helped! Good luck, goodspeed, goodway.
-Willie Broheim
EatMoGrass
Member
Thanks for the quick and informative reply spleebale. Their behavior is different than the gnats I have seen before. I have been doing the indoor thing for over 5 years now and have seen plenty of gnats, though I never had a hard time keeping their numbers in check. These flyers look identical without a scope, but are stronger flyers than the gnats I have seen before. I have not seen any aphids in the soil but I have seen some fungas gnat larva in the runoff. The mosqueto dunks seemed to slow their numbers for a bit but they are going crazy right now. I grow 100% organic so I will not apply anything to my growing medicine that is need for my health. I will likely finish this batch and hack up my moms into my EZ-Clone, destroy all plants and set off toxic bombs in my home. Having all these bugs in my buds/trim is disgusting. I need these buds and trim to make edibles to help with chronic pain. I believe I may have got these fuckers from FoxFarm Ocean Forest.
EatMoGrass
Member
Looking closer at those photos I can clearly see a difference between the two like you said. I cannot find my scope since I moved but the flyers I have caught on my yellow sticky traps look more like gnats than aphids, but thats with the naked eye. I'll look for my scope or buy another and report back. They are defiantly stronger flyers than the gnats I have seen before, and may even have the fatter body you mentioned.
GuerillaAk
Member
I got a case of the crabs, probably from reusing coco too many times. I would say in the future only use it twice at the most. I was just being cheap and pushing my luck.
anyways I got sum bayer bush and shrub and spectricide triazicide once and done concentrate 2. It only contains .08 percent of the gamma cyhalothrin. the one mentioned on the first page said 25 percent. maybe cuz i got concentrate 2? should i tripple the dosage recommenced on the first page to get it up to par or should i just try out the regular 7.5 or 15 ml? I guess while I wait for some ill do the regular recommended dosage while I wait for the answer. Im Using the bayer for my veg area(hand watered coco) and the spectracide for my flower area(ebb n gro 27 site). I still have 60 day or so left till my flowering plants are done should i use the bayer in there too? thanks for the great thread
anyways I got sum bayer bush and shrub and spectricide triazicide once and done concentrate 2. It only contains .08 percent of the gamma cyhalothrin. the one mentioned on the first page said 25 percent. maybe cuz i got concentrate 2? should i tripple the dosage recommenced on the first page to get it up to par or should i just try out the regular 7.5 or 15 ml? I guess while I wait for some ill do the regular recommended dosage while I wait for the answer. Im Using the bayer for my veg area(hand watered coco) and the spectracide for my flower area(ebb n gro 27 site). I still have 60 day or so left till my flowering plants are done should i use the bayer in there too? thanks for the great thread
I got a case of the crabs, probably from reusing coco too many times. I would say in the future only use it twice at the most. I was just being cheap and pushing my luck.
anyways I got sum bayer bush and shrub and spectricide triazicide once and done concentrate 2. It only contains .08 percent of the gamma cyhalothrin. the one mentioned on the first page said 25 percent. maybe cuz i got concentrate 2? should i tripple the dosage recommenced on the first page to get it up to par or should i just try out the regular 7.5 or 15 ml? I guess while I wait for some ill do the regular recommended dosage while I wait for the answer. Im Using the bayer for my veg area(hand watered coco) and the spectracide for my flower area(ebb n gro 27 site). I still have 60 day or so left till my flowering plants are done should i use the bayer in there too? thanks for the great thread
I've learned to toss my medium each time. Not worth the risk of carrying over fungus gnats or RAs. Fungus gnats love coco. Anyway, the coco loses it's oxygen retaining advantage after a couple of runs as it breaks down.
Why did you get bush and shrub? I don't know that one, so can't help on dosage. I think the Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer is the best choice for the indoor, small, gardener. It has B-Cyflrthrin and Imidicloprid ( imid For short), and it is a fairly mild dosage (.7%) so it would tend not to linger long, but is 100% effective. There's another one, "Citrus", which is twice as strong. If you are going to use it early in flower, I would use the weakest concentration, although I am not recommending using it in flower just to be safe, even though 60 days is probably long enough for it to dissipate.
The bottom bugs have one particular "feature" that makes me think they are indeed the same bugs as the top pics. The translucent nature of the rear end and the legs. It is also evident in the rather "new" and undeveloped appearance of the wings compared to the first bug. Im no entymologist but that usually indicates a recently completed molt phase where the body of the new exoskeleton hasn't hardened and colored in yet. The bottom bug likely does not maintain that same appearance for long. It could be the next life cycle step after the appearance of the first bug, or vice versa. These suckers go through so many life cycles that it's very likely they could just be different stages of the same species.
Everything about that pic looks like fungus gnats
http://mrec.ifas.ufl.edu/lso/fungusgnats.htm
The wasp at the bottom of that is interesting.
Smiley
Edit
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/greenhs/htms/fngnatser.htm
Anyone try this potato plug method?
http://mrec.ifas.ufl.edu/lso/fungusgnats.htm
The wasp at the bottom of that is interesting.
Smiley
Edit
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/greenhs/htms/fngnatser.htm
Anyone try this potato plug method?
Guerilla: The spectracide Triazicide I have is 0.25% NOT 25%! So your stuff is ~1/3 as strong. Making the recommended dose (for your stuff): 20-60 mL/gal. Be careful though, as you never know about the solvents they come dissolved in (almost certainly the most harmful part to the plant), For this reason concentrates are generally best (possibly an argument for Merit over Bayer, though side-by side evidence is not there.)
Edit: oops! Noticed you had it right, just left out the decimal. Yeah, 3X would be the way to get the active ingredient levels equal, but you have to watch out for the effects of what ever it comes dissolved in - may want to try just ONE plant first!
Edit: oops! Noticed you had it right, just left out the decimal. Yeah, 3X would be the way to get the active ingredient levels equal, but you have to watch out for the effects of what ever it comes dissolved in - may want to try just ONE plant first!
bicycle racer
Member
those in the pick a page or two back are most certainly fungus gnats not root aphids water with bt a few times and be done with it. your lucky there only gnats.
EatMoGrass
Member
Looking closer at the photos on the first page it seems that the aphids have much longer wings in proportion to the length of their bodies. The hundreds of flyers I have caught have the shorter wings like pictured in the gnat photos. I sure hope these really are just gnats. But these gnats and stronger and faster reproducing than any gnats I have seen in 5 years. I have almost always had a few gnats around over the years but they were always easy to keep their numbers in check with just sticky cards. I never worried about them. These are different. My plants are so pissed it looks like I'll be harvesting 10-15 days early and my yields look they will be less than half what I expected. I'm an organic gardener getting ready to set off some toxic bug bombs after this round is harvested and dried. Everything with roots will be thrown away. Only cuts in my EZ-clone will be kept. I'll start new mothers and everything.
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~PIFF~ A.K.A. Uptown Haze/Frankies/Church. Preserving a Heritage...
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