not hitting my goal

[Hydro Cabbage]

I must be doing something wrong because I'm not hitting my goal of at least 10oz per tray ...so what i have decided to do is switch nutrients for the newest tray put in, and compare it to the current formula i am using, and hopefully along the way get some pointers from you guys on here (hopefully please).

A little about my setup. I've been running 2x2 LP aero tables with approx 20 clones of nirvana's ak48. the two tables i'm doing a comparison with are side-by-side under a 600w hps in about a 4'x4' space. Tray #1 is in week 1 of 12/12 with zero veg time, and tray #2 is in week 2 of 12/12 also with zero veg time. There is also a third tray that is in it's own 3x3 space under a 600w that is in week 7 of 12/12 (trying to get perpetual sog up and going)

Table #1 is going to be running dutch masters gold line of nutrients, and I'm following the nutrient calculator off their site; using A&B, add .27, silca, and zone. In table #2 I'm going to be using AN 3 part in a custom formula found here http://bit.ly/a6KjZY which I've been using the last couple grows but only getting about 5oz per tray.

here is a shot of both side-by-side

tray 1

tray 1 close up

tray 2

close

will try to update weekly, but any feedback will be much appreciated. Thanks for looking

 

[Hydro Cabbage]

Here are a couple pics of my 3rd table currently starting week 7. wanted to give you guys an idea of what they look like near harvest.

 

[<~Hades~>]

not gonna happen with lil clones like that and no veg time

 

[SumDumGuy]

Here are a couple pics of my 3rd table currently starting week 7. wanted to give you guys an idea of what they look like near harvest.

Hi Hydro Cabbage,
Great looking setup. from what I see you are hitting 10oz's of clean tops bro. This is high grade herb I'm seeing. Are you looking to hit higher than 10? If so then you may have to revamp your op and use an ebb type system. I've yet to see an aero system that can produce heavier buds with no veg. Now contrary to what I just said I have to side with <~Hades~> in that you cannot expect more from 20 plants with no veg time. The problem hear is that if you do veg your plant will be too large with this setup. This is where the ebb and flow comes in - giving your plants support for a heavier mass after veg.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do here weather this is personal or commercial. If it is commercial I recommend you take 10 to 15 customers and always provide them with high quality material and you'll always be on top. Remember this - people will pay more for quality any day but this is why you need to keep clientele low so that you can screen the ones that require nothing but the best.

Now if you're still looking to hit a higher goal with your existing setup then may I suggest adding 12 more clones your flowering tub. You're currently hitting .5oz per plant multiplied by 20 plants to hit 10. Adding 12 more sites will up your weight to an even pound. Here in this image I went ahead and dotted in red where I think you can fit 12 more sites

Take a look and let me know what you think.

 

[SumDumGuy]

Also keep in mind that you will have to thin them up a bit since it'll be a tighter fit.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I think your perspective is wrong.

An expected increase in yield should be based on using the initial yield from the first run and making modifications to either the environment, nutes, and veg or flower time.

Also, your in a 4x4 tent with a 2x4 canopy, there goes almost half your yield right there.

4x4 tent needs a 4x4 canopy

Using those expensive botanicare aero tables will probably clog up your airflow is you put 4 2x2 tables in there.
Don't know if you are the diy type, but you could build a gutter downspout aero set up for cheap where you could have a 4x4 canopy and get plenty airflow through the canopy.

 

[highonmt]

I agree with sam on this one. You need to modify your conditions...If I were you the first change I would make would be to add a screen over your tubs and increase veg time ie SrOG. Flowering clones works but only with the proper strain and conditions. Up the plant size and you'll up your yield. Oh and make one change at a time. Start simple nail it then add complexity.
Good Luck
HM

 

[Hydro Cabbage]

<~Hades~> i used to veg for a week, but plants got too tall and the tops started to burn.

SumDumGuy glad u like my setup...10oz is my goal; right now i'm only getting about 5..i thought about ebb at one point (may have to reconsider) but i didn't want to have a really big res, and i like the fact of not having to use any kind of medium like hydrotron...I think i will add more plants when that tray comes down, but not sure what you mean by thin them up???

Sam i've been working with AN 3 part for quite some time, and thought i'd give dutch masters a shot, but you're def right i need to focus more on getting the 3 part dialed in...i like diy projects, my 1st try at aero was in an all rubbermaid system, but i got tired of patching leaks, so i just broke down and bought the tables i have now (no leaks)...is the gutter downspout you mentioned like the aero nft you see in the high times mag??

highonmt i used to scrog in dwc, and loved it, but it took way too long to fill out the screen imo, and now i'm trying to get a harvest every 2 to 3 weeks.

Thanks for all your replies guys, a lot of great info...looks like i'm going to have to figure out a way to incorporate some veg time without burning my tops and my have to give ebb & flow a try...gonna see how these 2 work out, but once i harvest the 3rd tray and free it up; i see i'm going to have to make some major modifications. Thanks again

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Hi Hydro Cabbage, I don't get high times, but ItsGrowTime has one he really likes. It is a aero/NFT hybrid.

Here is his thread

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=62253

 

[bulkybud]

The most important factors for yield is genetics and grower experience. Changing nutes may help. But changing strains and/or growing out multiple generations of one strains will maximize your chances of increasing yields.

 

[B. Friendly]

under 600w of total light you should get a half lb.
sounds like you're shooting for 1/2 oz per plant, which looks kinda hard.
rule of thumb is a pound per light is average for a 1000w
in order of importance
Experience
Light
water
nut's
CO2

 

[toohighmf]

thats some serious sog. can't veg em longer.. topping wont help... I agree that if you want to maximize that 4x4 area and that 600 n get 2 more identical cloners. flip at 4". train at 12"+. I bet you can get a P. Aside from that, I think your overferting a bit from the pics. maybe its the HPS but it looks like some have some serious yellowing & mild tip burn. Ferts don't make he man. you make the ferts work...

 

[B. Friendly]

thats some serious sog. can't veg em longer.. topping wont help... I agree that if you want to maximize that 4x4 area and that 600 n get 2 more identical cloners. flip at 4". train at 12"+. I bet you can get a P. Aside from that, I think your overferting a bit from the pics. maybe its the HPS but it looks like some have some serious yellowing & mild tip burn. Ferts don't make he man. you make the ferts work...

600watts at a gram per watt would be 1.34 lbs
that's a great goal to work towards with all the above ideas.

 

[toohighmf]

shoot for 1, as benchmark is 1.34. if you hit 1.34 w a 600, you are doing everything right!

 

[B. Friendly]

in order of importance
Experience
Light
water
nut's
CO2

on second thought
Experience
Light
Appropriate # of plants
Water
Nut's
CO2
Humidity

 

[pinkskunk]

i just pulled 10 oz from a six hunge in a 3x3 and i harvested probably a week and a half early in my opinion,the space wasnt filled properly and i only had three plants which were about two ft by the end of flower. i think a lb is quite easily achievable with a six hunge and a good yeilding strain.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Ha funny, I just randomly clicked this thread and saw Sam posting a pic of my setup. My system is a top feed, not aero. That particular pic is like 2 years old and doesn't look much like that anymore. The general idea is about the same though if you want to use fence posts or similar. Sprayers clog up too much so I dont mess with them anymore.

on topic: I agree that you need larger plants and a little more spacing. That aero will do ok for you but it's not going to maximize your yield. Have you tried only a few days of veg? Im reading either no veg or a week or veg. Why not split the difference and veg 3 days? You can also do some light LST training to stretch out the canopy horizontally instead of growing them all straight upwards. Also, your AK may just be a moderate yielder and that will ultimately limit your yield more than anything else. Just keep at it.

 

[Hydro Cabbage]

Sam thanks for the link buddy, this i kinda like the one in hightimes...really nice setup.

B. Friendly i've been growing for about 3 years now but still consider myself a noob b/c their is so much i still don't know lol...i think a have enough lights and i use RO water, but always been a little afraid to try out the CO2(maybe when i get some more practice)...1.34 lbs would be a dream..hopefully one day

toohighmf i think its the hps because the leaves aren't yellow, but you're right the tips are starting to burn..i added some plain RO water to the res to try to cut the nuts down some thanks buddy.

pinkskunk that's awesome, i'm trying to get to 10oz, and it sounds like you got there without even trying...what type of setup do you run?

ItsGrowTime yeah the link sam posted was very informative, your setup is sweet!!...as soon as a table is free i'm going to be making some serious modifications..either going to go with a fence post setup similar to yours(probably will stay with the 360 sprayers) or gonna go with ebb an flow, but def from the replies on here I'm going to have to incorporate a veg time..as to how long I think I'm going to have to play around with a little and see.

Which brings me to another question, I know ebb and flow is probably easy to setup; but which do you guys think is a more efficient system, ebb and flow or a fence post type aero/nft setup??

again thanks for all your replies..you guys are being really helpful.

 

[newhiddengrower]

Zero veg time is fine man,

1. You need to follow a real Nute Chart not a Custom made one.
2. Add a Net and Train your canopy.
3. Add Co2.
4. Are your bulbs new? Do you clean the glass of the reflector every 2 weeks?
5. Do you use a timer for your sprayers?

p.s aiming for 10oz should be beyond easy

 

[Hydro Cabbage]

Zero veg time is fine man,

1. You need to follow a real Nute Chart not a Custom made one.
2. Add a Net and Train your canopy.
3. Add Co2.
4. Are your bulbs new? Do you clean the glass of the reflector every 2 weeks?
5. Do you use a timer for your sprayers?

p.s aiming for 10oz should be beyond easy

1. I'm following the dutch masters chart on their site for 1 table, the other i use somebodies else formula for a base b/c not sure how i feel about the lucas formula(to my understanding it's for tomatoes??).
2. I've seen a couple replies now about a net or screen on top..how far should i space it from the top of the tray??
3. still a little afraid to try out the Co2, but maybe one day I'll build up the nerve lol
4. The current bulb in their now is a eye hortilux about 3 months old..no i do not clean the reflector every 2 weeks but will def start now(thanks for that one)
5. the pumps are on a 1 on 4 off cycle timer