canna coco nutes, help a noob out?

[brobrobro]

hey guys

sorry for all the threads i've made recently , i just cant afford to make any more mistakes!!

i'll settle down soon, i swear!


ok, im going to buy some canna coco nutes tomorrow, i've got a few questions...

my plants are four weeks old but look like there one week old (i made a few mistakes), so now im about to start feeding them nutes...

should i give them 1/4 strength to start off with?

how much ppm or ec would that equate to? (will have an ec pen in about a week)

feed them everyday (as i'll be watering everyday)? I'LL BE HAND WATERING


i have a 50lt water container, how much nutes would i put in 50lt of water?


how much water should i give my them to get the righ amount of nutes into the plants with 1/4 strength solution?1 lt a plant? 2lt? (in 5 gal pots btw)



i put the nutes in the water then let them sit until ph stops fluctuating then add either ph up or down to get the water to about 5.8-6.2, does this sound right?

is canna coco enough nutes to go through a whole grow? dont NEED anything else?

any tips you can give to a newby?





please help, im very nervous, i dont want fuk things up any further


brobrobro

 

[CovertCrops]

Brobrobro - 4 week old plants need some food so I would start feeding right away. Canna Coco A + B is all you will need from start to finish (may want a pk booster during bloom). Depending on strain you may need to add some Cal-mag. Start them off with the lowest recommended dose which I think is 1.5 ml/ltr so for your 50 ltr can you would add 75 ml of A and 75 ml of B. What that will give you for an EC is totally dependent on your source water. Canna with tap water is usually a ph @ 6.0-6.2 so a little adjustment may be required i shoot for 5.8-6.2 I personally think an EC meter is important but not everyone agrees. Water your plants until you get some runoff, I use drippers so I don't have much advice for the handwater. How often to water is dependent on plant size and growth stage.

Don't be nervous, plants are resilient and can tolerate a lot. Good luck bro, any more questions just ask.

 

[brobrobro]

hey thanks for the helpful reply!

well one thing i will ask is should i feed every day (nutes)?

thanks alot man.

 

[Bob-Hope]

Brobrobro ill give you my tuppence worth.

1) 1st go buy an ec meter £12 of e-bay then a ph pen £9 again e-bay..
2) then measure 50ltrs of tap water into your bucket/dustbin.
3) measure the ec reading of your water and wright this down.
4) for arguments sake. lets say the e.c value of your water was around 0.14 which is around 100ppm.
5) add 90ml of canna A and give it a good stir.
6) add 90ml of canna B and give it a good stir.
7) add 100ml of rhizo tonic and give it a good stir.
8) let it settle for about an hour
9) measure the e.c value of the water it should be around 1.14/1.16 which when converted to ppm is around 795 to 810.
10) now by subtracting the original value of your tap water which we guessed at 0.14(100ppm) that leaves you with a mix which is 695 to 710 ppm in strength or an e.c value of 1.0
11)you now need to adjust the ph value of the mix.. i personally start with a ph value of 5.3 and over a period of about ten days it rises to around 5.8/6.1 and stays there(but opinions on whats the best ph to start with are a mine field. so have a look around and make your own mind up)
12) to make it easy(for me cause im stoned) well round your mix up to 700ppm
13) now you take 10ltr of your mix and tip it into a empty bucket.
14) add ten ltrs of plain water with the same ph value (in this case 5.3)
15) this now gives you 20ltrs of mix at half strength ( around 350ppm)feed this to your plant now. at 4 weeks old and not yet been fed i bet there gagging for some food. i would feed this over the next 3 days then just switch to giving them the mix at full strength.
16)after 14 days or so you should be able to increase the strength to around ec1,2 to ec1.4.

all you have to do is find out what the ec value of your water is. stick it where we put the number we guessed and do a little simple maths,and robs your farthers brother if you now what i mean

oh and a quick disclaimer for all those that might suggest a million other ways of doing it.
im stoned and measured 50ltrs as best i could 5x10ltrs into a dustbin of tap water did the 90ml of A+B bunged 100ml of rhizo in quick check it it was very close to what i said above no more than30ppm out either way so not to bad.

just to give you a quick guide ive got 2 pot of golds that are 48days from seed in a wilma system fed 2 times a day for 7mins a feed and there quite happy to be fed an e.c of 1.4 to 1.6 so happy in fact i may have to ditch the wilma as it takes up two much height.

 

[2Lazy]

Canna nutrients has a very helpful calculator on their website to determine all of the questions you just asked. You should trust the mfg instructions in this case.

Feed with nutrients every day. I suggest against using tap water due to impurities, especially with how important the chemistry is with the two part formula. I've been using RO water treated with Botanicare's Cal-Mag+ to supplement additional Calcium, Magnesium, and Iron that would be present in tap water.

Of all the things to supplement the Canna Coco system with I suggest something with Iron and something with Silicon, as Canna decided these elements aren't important enough to include. Actually, they are VERY light on micronutrients and don't include many things a plant might need. Things like copper, sulfur, boron, etc. The Iron and the Silicon are important enough to me to try and add through other means. I've used Humboldt Honey ES at about 3ml per gallon once per week also to help with the micro-nutrient short comings and to provide some carbs to the biologicals but I can't really see a difference.

I definitely won't use Canna in RO water with out cal-mag+ ever. The next time around I'm also planning on using a little more organic science in my mix; I'll up the biologicals in the coco and use a Humic/Fulvic acid supplement to help. I'm not going for pure organic, or pure hydro, so my method probably isn't your method. You can grow some awesome plants using their line without anything at all, but just be prepared for those micro-nutrient deficiencies to crop up if your genetics requires them.

 

[brobrobro]

Brobrobro ill give you my tuppence worth.

1) 1st go buy an ec meter £12 of e-bay then a ph pen £9 again e-bay..
2) then measure 50ltrs of tap water into your bucket/dustbin.
3) measure the ec reading of your water and wright this down.
4) for arguments sake. lets say the e.c value of your water was around 0.14 which is around 100ppm.
5) add 90ml of canna A and give it a good stir.
6) add 90ml of canna B and give it a good stir.
7) add 100ml of rhizo tonic and give it a good stir.
8) let it settle for about an hour
9) measure the e.c value of the water it should be around 1.14/1.16 which when converted to ppm is around 795 to 810.
10) now by subtracting the original value of your tap water which we guessed at 0.14(100ppm) that leaves you with a mix which is 695 to 710 ppm in strength or an e.c value of 1.0
11)you now need to adjust the ph value of the mix.. i personally start with a ph value of 5.3 and over a period of about ten days it rises to around 5.8/6.1 and stays there(but opinions on whats the best ph to start with are a mine field. so have a look around and make your own mind up)
12) to make it easy(for me cause im stoned) well round your mix up to 700ppm
13) now you take 10ltr of your mix and tip it into a empty bucket.
14) add ten ltrs of plain water with the same ph value (in this case 5.3)
15) this now gives you 20ltrs of mix at half strength ( around 350ppm)feed this to your plant now. at 4 weeks old and not yet been fed i bet there gagging for some food. i would feed this over the next 3 days then just switch to giving them the mix at full strength.
16)after 14 days or so you should be able to increase the strength to around ec1,2 to ec1.4.

all you have to do is find out what the ec value of your water is. stick it where we put the number we guessed and do a little simple maths,and robs your farthers brother if you now what i mean

oh and a quick disclaimer for all those that might suggest a million other ways of doing it.
im stoned and measured 50ltrs as best i could 5x10ltrs into a dustbin of tap water did the 90ml of A+B bunged 100ml of rhizo in quick check it it was very close to what i said above no more than30ppm out either way so not to bad.

just to give you a quick guide ive got 2 pot of golds that are 48days from seed in a wilma system fed 2 times a day for 7mins a feed and there quite happy to be fed an e.c of 1.4 to 1.6 so happy in fact i may have to ditch the wilma as it takes up two much height.

awesome man! thanks for taking the time to write down a step by step guide! very helpful,

1 question though, is it ok if i dont use the rhizo tonic?



cheers mate.

 

[brobrobro]

ok i just bought the canna coco nutes

should i give them nutes everyday?

 

[dunkybones]

Nutes with every watering, as needed. If they're thirsty every day, then nutes every day.

 

[brobrobro]

Nutes with every watering, as needed. If they're thirsty every day, then nutes every day.

understandable, thanks!

 

[brobrobro]

since i water to runoff, should i empty the runoff tray every time? or just let it get soaked back up/evaporate??

if i do have to empty it, is the some kind of hand operated (cheap) pump ican get so i dont have to lift up all the pots to get the runoff tray out, making a mess ect..


any idea?

 

[growingold]

Hello mate,

What you got the plants sitting on?..trays or saucers? Ive had mine on both,with the trays I just tilted one end & used an old towel or a big car sponge or even my 100ml syringe.

Now I have them in individual sausers & once watered they are left half an hour & whats left over is then simply chucked away.

I dont have a main res as such just a few 10 litre builder buckets that are made up with water (tepid) straight from the tap as and when needed.

If your going with a 50 litre res best keep an air stone in there it helps move your nutes around and prevents them from settling on t bottom.

Youll love coco mate..good luck.

G.

 

[brobrobro]

Hello mate,

What you got the plants sitting on?..trays or saucers? Ive had mine on both,with the trays I just tilted one end & used an old towel or a big car sponge or even my 100ml syringe.

Now I have them in individual sausers & once watered they are left half an hour & whats left over is then simply chucked away.

I dont have a main res as such just a few 10 litre builder buckets that are made up with water (tepid) straight from the tap as and when needed.

If your going with a 50 litre res best keep an air stone in there it helps move your nutes around and prevents them from settling on t bottom.

Youll love coco mate..good luck.

G.

hey man, thanks for the reply


im using 5 gal pots with normal circle runoff trays


its all hand watered


yea i was thinking about a big syringe...

so dont leave the runoff soak up then?

cheers

 

[dunkybones]

If you allow the plant to soak up the runoff, salts will build up more rapidly in the coco, and you'll have to flush them out, which will be a pita with plants on the floor. So you can either suck up the runoff with a syringe, sponge, or wet-vac, which allows each watering to double as a light flushing, OR, you can lighten up the nute profile so reabsorbing the runoff won't be as toxic. Peoples do it both ways, depending on what works for their system and their temperament.

 

[mojo420]

bbb, good choice on mediums... I've used canna coir and ferts for years and here's what I've found... the PK 13/14 is a waste of time and unnecessary as far as I can determine - you don't need the zyme... A and B will grow the hell outa any strain you put in front of it... and the only time I see people get into trouble with it is when they try to add supplements...

pH is the biggie in coco... I've found using canna coir my pH drops through the floor after I repot for 2 or 3 weeks... as a result, till the pH stabilizes, I pH my waterings/feedings to 6.3-6.4. I've been watering 2 times a day for 7 minutes for several years now and I see a lot more people doing it nowadays, lolol.... anyway, by pH'ing high and the pots pulling it down between waterings, it seems to meet in the middle inside the pots and probably ends up at about 5.9 or so just before the next watering.

I had trouble during the first part of each of my grows till I figured this out and started pH'ing high... I tend my res before each watering so when I get my cuts or seedlings in the trays and hooked up to my recirc system, I've pretty much got em by the balls...

If you're hand watering to waste, a 20% runoff initially, should keep your pots right in the beginning. If you're gonna veg em in the same pots for a month or so, you can cut back on runoff after a month to about 10% as the coco in those pots has charged itself and has pretty much stabilized. My advice is to never let your coco dry out as it's much easier to keep the waste (salts, etc.) in the pots movin if it stays wet... pot size and plant size will dictate whether or not you need to water more than once a day... You can get by with 1adays IF the pot's big enough to hold enough water for the plants between waterings... and when I say waterings, I mean water with ferts in it, as I never just only pour straight water into the pots till I start my 2 week flushes right before harvest.

I use straight RO water cause my tap's shittier than normal shitty... my meter's a hanna without the temp probe - it has a multiplication factor of 0.7 but I'll use ec here - when I see the first 3 finger fans just barely growing out, I add per gallon of RO, 1/2mL each of cal-mag+, canna part A, and canna part B. This gives me an ec of 0.25 by the time I add some pH up. BTW, I highly recommend HESI base and acid cause it's more concentrated than HG's rat turd bunk... I was adding a ton of base to raise my res's pH till I scored the HESI...

From then on, watch the seedling's fans and increase the ec slowly... You should see the first fans developing the second week of life for the seedlings - go from the above 0.5mL/gallon of water figures above to 1 mL/gallon for the next increase in ec and so on....

I routinely run new seed strains and have found I don't need to go any higher than 1.05-1.1 ec using canna nutes - PERIOD!!! I haven't found a strain that doesn't run perfectly at that ec... I used to run strains almost to 1.8ec - I'd nute em till I saw a little burn and back off a touch - Not now!!! At 6mL/gallon of each A and B, you're in the slot, man.... after the 3rd week or so, I begin to add 2mL/gallon of cal-mag to each gallon of RO and that's where I keep it. IF you're running tap water, more than likely, you're not gonna need the cal-mag+... I only use it cause canna A and B were designed to be run with tap water and without it, the plants begin to show defs in calcium and some other micros.... I wouldn't go over 2mL/gallon even using RO cause I've seen grows by others stop dead in their tracks due to toxicity caused by too much of the cal-mag - gaius had me so scared of it in the beginning, I wouldn't use it for years -

I'm a little stoned so I hope some of this helped - may be a little scattered out, but maybe the info you need's in there somewhere, hehe...

One more thing - if you begin to see spots on the fans, you've got a pH problem - not a problem with over or under ferting them... to see which way you need to adjust your pH, elevate the pot, get you a syringe and suck up the VERY FIRST return that falls outa the drain holes in your pots - and test it. If it's dropping on you, pH some nutes in the 6.4 range and water again and again till your return starts coming out at 6.2 or so - this may make your plants sag a little for half a day or so due to overwatering but I do it all the time and the plants don't seem to give a shit past lookin a little sad for a few hours. By doin this, you'll pull your pH back into some sort of usable range to the plant - Increase your runoff to keep it from happening again...

One more thing again, lmfao.... my combo of RO, coir and nutes has determined what I do - I suggest initially pH'ing your feeds to 6.0 and adjusting based on what you see in YOUR garden... when you see spots on your fans, test your runoff like I suggested above and then you'll know which way YOU need to go - make sense?

mojo

 

[brobrobro]

If you allow the plant to soak up the runoff, salts will build up more rapidly in the coco, and you'll have to flush them out, which will be a pita with plants on the floor. So you can either suck up the runoff with a syringe, sponge, or wet-vac, which allows each watering to double as a light flushing, OR, you can lighten up the nute profile so reabsorbing the runoff won't be as toxic. Peoples do it both ways, depending on what works for their system and their temperament.

hey thanks for the input, will probably just use the syringe method

cheers

bbb, good choice on mediums... I've used canna coir and ferts for years and here's what I've found... the PK 13/14 is a waste of time and unnecessary as far as I can determine - you don't need the zyme... A and B will grow the hell outa any strain you put in front of it... and the only time I see people get into trouble with it is when they try to add supplements...

pH is the biggie in coco... I've found using canna coir my pH drops through the floor after I repot for 2 or 3 weeks... as a result, till the pH stabilizes, I pH my waterings/feedings to 6.3-6.4. I've been watering 2 times a day for 7 minutes for several years now and I see a lot more people doing it nowadays, lolol.... anyway, by pH'ing high and the pots pulling it down between waterings, it seems to meet in the middle inside the pots and probably ends up at about 5.9 or so just before the next watering.

I had trouble during the first part of each of my grows till I figured this out and started pH'ing high... I tend my res before each watering so when I get my cuts or seedlings in the trays and hooked up to my recirc system, I've pretty much got em by the balls...

If you're hand watering to waste, a 20% runoff initially, should keep your pots right in the beginning. If you're gonna veg em in the same pots for a month or so, you can cut back on runoff after a month to about 10% as the coco in those pots has charged itself and has pretty much stabilized. My advice is to never let your coco dry out as it's much easier to keep the waste (salts, etc.) in the pots movin if it stays wet... pot size and plant size will dictate whether or not you need to water more than once a day... You can get by with 1adays IF the pot's big enough to hold enough water for the plants between waterings... and when I say waterings, I mean water with ferts in it, as I never just only pour straight water into the pots till I start my 2 week flushes right before harvest.

I use straight RO water cause my tap's shittier than normal shitty... my meter's a hanna without the temp probe - it has a multiplication factor of 0.7 but I'll use ec here - when I see the first 3 finger fans just barely growing out, I add per gallon of RO, 1/2mL each of cal-mag+, canna part A, and canna part B. This gives me an ec of 0.25 by the time I add some pH up. BTW, I highly recommend HESI base and acid cause it's more concentrated than HG's rat turd bunk... I was adding a ton of base to raise my res's pH till I scored the HESI...

From then on, watch the seedling's fans and increase the ec slowly... You should see the first fans developing the second week of life for the seedlings - go from the above 0.5mL/gallon of water figures above to 1 mL/gallon for the next increase in ec and so on....

I routinely run new seed strains and have found I don't need to go any higher than 1.05-1.1 ec using canna nutes - PERIOD!!! I haven't found a strain that doesn't run perfectly at that ec... I used to run strains almost to 1.8ec - I'd nute em till I saw a little burn and back off a touch - Not now!!! At 6mL/gallon of each A and B, you're in the slot, man.... after the 3rd week or so, I begin to add 2mL/gallon of cal-mag to each gallon of RO and that's where I keep it. IF you're running tap water, more than likely, you're not gonna need the cal-mag+... I only use it cause canna A and B were designed to be run with tap water and without it, the plants begin to show defs in calcium and some other micros.... I wouldn't go over 2mL/gallon even using RO cause I've seen grows by others stop dead in their tracks due to toxicity caused by too much of the cal-mag - gaius had me so scared of it in the beginning, I wouldn't use it for years -

I'm a little stoned so I hope some of this helped - may be a little scattered out, but maybe the info you need's in there somewhere, hehe...

One more thing - if you begin to see spots on the fans, you've got a pH problem - not a problem with over or under ferting them... to see which way you need to adjust your pH, elevate the pot, get you a syringe and suck up the VERY FIRST return that falls outa the drain holes in your pots - and test it. If it's dropping on you, pH some nutes in the 6.4 range and water again and again till your return starts coming out at 6.2 or so - this may make your plants sag a little for half a day or so due to overwatering but I do it all the time and the plants don't seem to give a shit past lookin a little sad for a few hours. By doin this, you'll pull your pH back into some sort of usable range to the plant - Increase your runoff to keep it from happening again...

One more thing again, lmfao.... my combo of RO, coir and nutes has determined what I do - I suggest initially pH'ing your feeds to 6.0 and adjusting based on what you see in YOUR garden... when you see spots on your fans, test your runoff like I suggested above and then you'll know which way YOU need to go - make sense?

mojo

holy shit, thanks for you very detailed reply!

ph issues- my ph runoff is very high, i was advised to run 5.8-6.2 and forget about the runoff.... what do you think of that?

then the guy at the hydro shop said to compensate buy using low ph (5.3 in which will come out at about 6.3-6.5) what do you think of that?

and i mixed 75ml a 75ml b in 50lt of water, so 150ml/50lt or 3ml/lt or 11ml/gal

fuk i think i made it to strong, should i dilute by adding more water?
ive only fed them with this mix once so far....

man i wish i had an ec meter... hurry up monday!

again, thanks for the reply, it was very helpful.





thanks to everyone for there help so far!

 

[dunkybones]

If you aren't recircing forget the pH that comes out, just get the ingoing pH right.

 

[playboy420]

I think that where you are now with no ec stick to do what dunkybones said and just worry about the water going in. If going to waste that is..

Once you get shit going nicely you can check the ph and ppm of the run off to get a better idea of what to water next time. Or people even will re-water that same day with adjusted water. Personally I check the run-off ph and ppm to gauge adjustments for the next watering.

Good luck and 15ml/gal is a lot of a + b, dilute that shit.

 

[brobrobro]

If you aren't recircing forget the pH that comes out, just get the ingoing pH right.

ok ill do that

cheers

I think that where you are now with no ec stick to do what dunkybones said and just worry about the water going in. If going to waste that is..

Once you get shit going nicely you can check the ph and ppm of the run off to get a better idea of what to water next time. Or people even will re-water that same day with adjusted water. Personally I check the run-off ph and ppm to gauge adjustments for the next watering.

Good luck and 15ml/gal is a lot of a + b, dilute that shit.

shit, i've fed the plants 2 times with this mix so far....


i'll add another 20 lt or so.. that should be diluted enough?


so i should just feeding at 5.8 then (assuming it doesnt fluctuate from the nutes) instead of the 5.2 which the guy at the hydro shop suggested?


so i should be watering even if the coco looks moist? whats considered dry?

thanks guys

 

[Hazyfontazy]

try cannas nute schedule
http://www.canna-uk.com/growguide

to use coco learn a hydro regime ,its not soil ,NEVER LET COCO DRY OUT ,check ec an ph and that's it ,easy as ab+rhizo+enzyme+pk13-14

cannas system does work extremely well

 

[brobrobro]

try cannas nute schedule
http://www.canna-uk.com/growguide

to use coco learn a hydro regime ,its not soil ,NEVER LET COCO DRY OUT ,check ec an ph and that's it ,easy as ab+rhizo+enzyme+pk13-14

cannas system does work extremely well

so the recommended schedule wouldn't be too strong for babies?

cheers man