Lighting Upgrade Recommendations

[Tony Aroma]

I currently have your basic double-wide wardrobe, about 6 sq ft, with two 250-w MH bulbs (500 w total). I use 10,000 K bulbs for veg and 6500 K bulbs for flower. But I think my lights are the limiting factor in my set up. I just can't get big buds no matter how big and healthy my plants are.

I only have the one cabinet which is not subdivided, so I'd like to have lighting that can be used for both veg and flower. Ideally, I'd just have to swap bulbs like I do now. I also think I can replace the two 250 watters with a single 400 w light and be better off with a more appropriate spectrum. Plus, one bulb would be cheaper and put out less heat than two.

I've been reading a lot about CMH and think I'd really like to go with that type of lighting. Phillips seems to have the best spectrum of the CMHs. But those use an HPS ballast, and I don't know what I could then use for veg. Unless I get one of those two-way ballasts (MH/HPS) which would let me use MH for veg and CMH for flower.

My problem is I can't seem to figure out what lamps work with what ballasts. The hydro web sites are never quite clear on that, nor are the bulb manufacturers. And I don't want to build my own system.

So I'd appreciate your recommendations. And please be specific, particular bulb/ballast combinations would be most helpful.

 

[Tony Aroma]

Surely somebody must have an opinion.

Anybody know anything about two-way ballasts, the kind that will drive both MH and HPS bulbs? Would that work with MH for veg and CMH for flower? Any particular ones I should avoid?

I've read everything here, including much of that CMH thread with zillions of posts. But lots of that info in two or more years out of date, and it's impossible to find any current information amongst the rest.

For example, what about this ballast:

Sun System Harvest Pro

This web site says it's an HPS ballast, but the Sun System site says it's an MH ballast. See why I'm confused? Will it run MH bulbs, CMH bulbs, and/or HPS bulbs?

 

[grow1620]

I run 400w 4000k cmh bulbs. They run off of a 400w magnetic HPS ballasts. I use a hydrofarms 400w switchable mh/hps ballast used on the hps setting. Don't tell anyone but when I got my new cmh bulb I was all excited and forgot to switch to hps at first...so the bulb ranfor like 2 minutes on the MH setting..the bulb didn't fire up all the way..and I'm thinking wtf!..then I remembered the switch...running smooth now. (yes I turned it off and let it rest before flipping the switch lol)

the 250w and 400w cmh run off of magnetic hps ballast and the lesser cmh bulbs run off of pulse start MH ballasts.

If you go CMH definitely get the 4k , not the 3k bulbs...the 3k bulbs are closed fixture rated and actually are responsible for burning down a phillips (i think) bulb testing facility. They failed and burned down a testing facility, where you think they would have had failsafes/safety precautions for faulty bulbs right?....right..? I wouldn't feel safe running 3k bulbs because of that, plus the 4k's are supposed to be extra safe against breakage and they're rated open fixture. I worry about safety alot and wouldn't be running the 4k's if I didn't feel very safe with them.

so! yes! convertible ballasts will run both cmh/mh but they need to be magnetic ballasts, the cmh aren't meant to be used off of digis or E ballasts or w/e..unless they're one of the specially designed electronic cmh ballasts (only place I've seen them for sale is advancedtech btw).

Personally I would go with cmh for veg and flower (I already do actually). If you reallllly love your mh bulb at least do yourself the favor of comparing growth rates/health between the 2 bulbs and decide for yourself which is better. I used to veg/flower under MH, then I ordered my first 400 cmh, switched my ballast over, and haven't looked back.

Only negative thing I can say about cmh is that they seems to produce slightly leafier buds, making trimming a little tougher....but with tons of positives, like bulb life, dropoff rates, the quality they produce...lower temps, higher cri for viewing your plants...etc...list goes on and on...I couldn't imagine switching to something else at this point.

btw I think the higher quality of buds is attributed to the lower temps they run at just as much as the color spectrum


... that ss ballast, umm that looks like 2 different models...I think the only difference between hps and mh ballasts is the ignitors..different ignitors, or the mh doesn't have one or something...so many models might look alike because the use alot of the same parts. I've found also that if it doesn't say if it's magnetic or electronic..then it's most likely magnetic...because if the ballast is digital/electronic, they will certainly advertise it as a selling point.

holler if you need anything else...I'm no expert, but happy to help with what I can.

edit:

particular bulb/ballast combinations would be most helpful

here's the ballast I use, here's the bulb (the CDM400S51/HOR/4K/ALTO) and here's another ballast I use with them.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

I always pay the $10 extra bucks for a switchable ballast. not only do i not know what I'm going to want it for in the future.... it makes it easier to sell to your buddies. I ran a 400w in a 3x3 closet 16plants in 1 gallon then finally in 2 gallon. I had great nugs with good structure and they were dense as long as the plants were trained well to not waste growing energy outside the sweetspot of the 400. Anything beyond a foot is larf city so I always trimmed it.

So yeah the 400 is a great first step. I would get a 400w switchable ballast and a CMH bulb ans see how you like it. You can always grab an HPS light if you dont

Something tells me that if you go CMH you'll be happy, most are.

Cheers
Smiley

 

[inphu510n]

Going to go the way of 400w CMH with a 8.5sqft area. So much I've read makes me feel that they're the best choice for me. If I had a larger area to light up, I'd be going with a 600/1k MH/HPS setup.

I think the cheapest thing for you to do would be to buy two 250w CMH bulbs and rock on. That's plenty of light for your space. You could buy two Hortilux HPS bulbs and switch up when you go from veg to flower but why? You're already interested in seeing what CMH can do so what are you waiting for?

 

[Tony Aroma]

Thanks all. That's the kind of info I was looking for.

So it sounds like the consensus is that I should be OK with a single 400 lamp. I hesitate going from 500 w total watts in two lamps to 400 w in a single lamp. I've never really been sure of the trade off between more, lower wattage lamps versus fewer, higher wattage lamps. But as far as I can tell, the higher output of the CMH bulbs and better spectrum should make up for lower total wattage. Looking at the spectrum info, it looks like CMH has the closest to ideal spectrum for flowering of any current bulb.

It looks like the two-way ballast is the best bet for me. It gives me the option of using CMH bulbs or HPS for flowering, but also MH bulbs if I decide I want those for veg. Best of all possible worlds.

 

[big ballin 88]

if your space is a little larger than a couple of 400w's would make sense. Since you mentioned a cab i think this is where a 400w CMH really shines. The increased irradiance of the 400w makes it much better than lower wattages. Irradiance wise you cant beat 600w or 1kw. the main thing you'll see with high irradiance is increased penetration of the light. this equals to larger buds in a smaller area than if you were to cover the space with 2-250w's. It really becomes a matter of the size of the nugs and density along with increased growth potential.

 

[Tony Aroma]

if your space is a little larger than a couple of 400w's would make sense.

Are you saying one 400 w lamp would NOT be enough? My space is about 48" x 18", about 6 square feet, and I typically have 8 plants (until they are sexed).

 

[big ballin 88]

No a 400w will be perfect. You can also run a 600w if you have enough ventilation, but it's not really necessary unless your going for super dense nugs. I'm just saying that because before you were running 500w, a 600w in that area would really put out.

Are your MH ballasts Pulse or Probe start? Hopefully you can just use your two 250's with a 4k CMH. Either that or if you have a M58 ballast you can run the Hortliux Blue's which are similar to CMH, but not as good(The spectrum they show is for the 1k). That or mix both CMH and a horti blue, they would provide a super strong full spectrum. I actually just looked at both graphs comparatively and its amazing because the Horti Blue falls off where the CMH starts picking up.

Possibilities are endless it depends on what you want out of it. 35-50w/sq. ft equals more efficient grow, while the 75-100w/sq. ft. is more for high quality yields when done correctly.

 

[Bull.]

i would go with a 600 hps, it gives out almoust 2 times more lumens then a 400 w lamp

 

[Tony Aroma]

I've done a little more research, and here's what I'm thinking:

Xtrasun 600W 120/240v HPS/MH E-Ballast
Hortilux Super HPS Enhanced Spectrum 600W (flowering)
Sun Pulse 600W MH Pulse Start 6.4K bulb (veg)
Daystar Reflector (my cab is only 18 inches deep)

What do you think? Are all these components compatible? In partcular, the reflector info conspicuously does NOT include 600-w MH bulbs in its list of compatible bulbs. Seems odd. Any changes or other suggestions? Anywhere I could get better prices (that's reliable)?