Between Sun and Moon HPS/LED comparison grow.

[unclefishstick]

Great job Hazy,and thank you again for doing this test for all of us,I'm in the middle of building a grow box around the 205w unit,as soon as i get a bit further I will put a new thread up in the grow diaries under the old tartar sauce research kitchen,I think I have a few good ideas to optimize the LED enviroment

 

[blynx]

Yeah thanks for the show, I agree it's clear that the HPS has won the battle, However it's also clear that the LED did produce comparible results.

Figure the 205w led only draws around 190w so thats under half the wattage used for very simular results. 100 grams wet would be around 20 grams difference, Not much of a difference, when you factor in 20 more grams 210 more watts of power.

I am starting to think LEDGirl might have a winner with the LEDS, Plus knowing the fact that she is working on improving them as time goes on the future sure is bright for the LEDS.

Kinda depends on what you call the 'battle'.

If the battle is overall yield, then HPS is the winner. HPS produced about 25% more bud than LED.

If the battle is GPW, then LED just kicked HPS's ass in this test. LED had about a 55% higher GPW than HPS.

 

[catman]

I wonder if LEDs could be configured around a vertical cylinder making it like a vertical bulb grow. The increased surface area should be enough to make the LEDs yield higher than a HPS in a horizontal configuration in the exact same space. Because the LEDs don't penetrate as far vertical would also be better.

I don't think it is a fair battle unless you are comparing two lighting systems that consume the same amount of power consumed. Two of those LED units would have whooped that HPS, but the question is could both units be placed in the same sized space. The ultimate metric every grower should be looking to optimize is yield per volume of space because that is what most of us find the most difficult to change.

 

[hazy]

LEDgirl has already designed or is at least working with a vertical prototype. I don't know if there would be any advantage. The vert grow is designed around the bulb shining out 360 degrees. But yeah, the 20 x 20 form factor is what you have to work with and you may not be able to fit them side by side in a small space, though you could get the next size up which I think is a 318 watt in the same box. Maybe one on its side. Facing away from you so you don't have to look into the light.

Which brings me to the only thing that seems important about vertical grows. they are too hard on the eyes. I'm changing the light in the next room back to my big hood. Even with sunglasses, my eyes feel almost like flashburn from a welder.​

 

[easyrasta]

great job bro
led girl did herself a favor by letting you do this test
peace
Ez

 

[wick.96]

led girl did herself a favor by letting you do this test

no doubt.. Looks great. Im also impressed with the LED results.. great read!

 

[one Q]

That was a great show.

Now, I must say that Im more interested in this weight comparison once all the STEMS and are removed.

What if LED produces "thicker stems" or if HPS does? Im just saying, not trying to shit on this grow because if you look up my posts and ask LEDGirl, Im a HUGE proponent of these lights. Just want to be realistic.

every grow log I see I become more and more enthusiastic about LEDs
Move OVER HID

 

[snaggy-]

Wow! Awesome thread. Thanks for doing such a good job documenting so far!

 

[Strainbrain]

Whatever the final numbers, these LEDs clearly belong in the discussion of viable ways to grow indoors. Great job, Hazy.

 

[LEDGirl]

Hey Hazy just for a recap, have you only cut down 1 of the plants from each side so far? If so, how many are left under each light for the final comparison?

So The LED plant gave you about 126.6 grams and the HID gave you 157.9 The LED uses about 190W total power, while the HPS uses about 440W. If you figure 80% of the plant weight as water, the dry results from the two will be about 31.6g from the HPS and about 25.3g from the LED. So 20% (6g) less yield on this plant from the LED while using about 57% less power.

If I remember correctly you were saying there was quite a bit of genetic variety between 3 clones you took from the same mother, with the smallest ending up under LED, the mid-sized one under the HPS, and the biggest one not even a part of this grow. I don't think you were referring to the Sugar Shack as that plant though, but readers should keep in mind that there will always be small variations from one plant to the next and those variables are very HARD to control. I know you did your best to maintain all variables and keep things equal, but I have a feeling those small differences in genetics will play on the end result for this test. I also have to consider that you're a fairly experienced HID Grower and this is your first time using LED. No doubt you'll be able to get more from LED in the future, just as you improved with HID over time, but I feel you did a VERY nice job anyway this time around.

Perhaps if you're up for another test you could veg the plants under each light to see the true advantages to a full LED grow. The LED plants will tend to grow more nodes closer together vs any other light source, essentially preparing the plant for a dense bloom with tons of bud sites. Either way, thanks again for doing this and I look forward to seeing the FINAL final results lol.

 

[catman]

<b>

LEDgirl has already designed or is at least working with a vertical prototype. I don't know if there would be any advantage. The vert grow is designed around the bulb shining out 360 degrees.

Which brings me to the only thing that seems important about vertical grows. they are too hard on the eyes. I'm changing the light in the next room back to my big hood. Even with sunglasses, my eyes feel almost like flashburn from a welder.​

</b>

There is an obvious advantage of a vertical configuration because it increases the surface area of where buds can grow. The LEDs would light up 360 degrees as well. You make a valid point about it being hard on the eyes, but I don't think that is stopping many people from growing more efficiently.


LEDGirl - Would you care to comment on the status of a vertical LED unit? I would love to get my paws on one of them.

I have some pioneering ideas that I think will change future commercial grow ops and vertical LED units are the ideal light source for reasons you already know. Large HIDs might make for easy installation, easy growing style, and are cheaper, but that is the end of their advantages over LED technology. I'm half trained as an electrical engineer and half industrial engineer, but because I had to pay for school myself I'm too poor to build my own unit. That and I'm mechanical retarded and not having thumbs makes it difficult to be a machinists. What I envision is clusters of smaller grow chambers stacked on top of each other with much smaller plants than a typical HID garden. This is the only way to truly achieve quality and quantity. It would also be beneficially configuration for large scale breeders. What drives me bonkers is that I'm currently employed in a position where I could make all of this happen (ties to the herbal supplement industry), but the laws just aren't changing fast enough.

 

[hazy]

Hi Cammie, yep that's just one of the three from each side that's been cut.

One Sour Diesel and one Chem4 from each side to go.​

If I remember correctly you were saying there was quite a bit of genetic variety between 3 clones you took from the same mother, with the smallest ending up under LED, the mid-sized one under the HPS, and the biggest one not even a part of this grow.

That's the Chem4.
A little clarifiaction here so we have this right.
There is no 'genetic variation' between the chem4 cuts. Same mom same day. Yes, one outgrew the other two a lot. I sure wish I knew why. I guess It could be the way they reacted to LSTing and which branches got bent, who knows. These two in this test were very close with the one that went under the LED slightly bigger than the one that went under the HPS. It really wasn't very noticeable, but thought full disclosure was the best policy in case a sharp eyed observer noticed.

Here's a quote from post #23 back on page two.​

The SS on the hps side had an advantage going in. I think it was a tad bigger than the other. I also think the c4 on the led side had the size advantage going in. Hard to tell with the diesels. Pretty close.

So, for these Sugar Shacks, the HPS had a bit of an advantage going in. Hey, I can only get two living, growing plants so close to identical.

As far as the c4 goes, the hps one was slightly smaller and became quite a bit bigger. Maybe more of whatever made their other sister grow faster played a role. Also, remember that I gave it a dose of veg nutes by mistake. I don't know if that extra N made a difference at that stage or not, but it might have, because within a day or two of that mistake, the one under the HPS shot up that big long cola. It was already bigger than the led one at that point, but then went crazy. Maybe that's part of it.​

Here's a few pics of the Sour Diesel while we're waiting for the SS to dry. It's off the stems and in the bags now, day or two and it'll be dry enough to jar. My SS is tricky to cure well. A tiny bit too realy into the jar and it'll smell like hay. Get a good cure and it's a very stony low odor hashy slighty sweet smell. Good for sending down the road with a friend in need.​

hps

led


hps/led

hps/led

​

 

[hazy]

2 more sd

2 more sd

the whole plant
hps


led

​

I plan on doing it again if anyone's interested. I'll be using a little bit different style next time, totally dependent on what's in these pots below. Those are what I have for the next round. Hoping for a bit of a sog, but because I have so many strains, who knows what will end up where. Still deciding. I'm thinking I'll get more out of this LED next time. Now, since everybody's already vegged under the floros, the most I can do is a week of vegging under bloom wattage. Should be plenty.
Maybe I'll just go for a 4-20 flip date.

vegging for next time:

 

[unthing]

Great testgrow hazy, waiting for the final numbers.

Regarding vertical setup ands leds generally not being easy for the eyes:

Unlike hids you can turn them off and on as much as you want without something blowing up. So no reason to have them on while working there, maybe a small cfl to guide you.

 

[hazy]

That's a great point unthing.

 

[b00m]

Such a great job hazy, things are looking off the hook on both sides. Well Done.

Peace an Respect

 

[unclefishstick]

yeah,keep it going hazy!! are you going to keep running side by side? since the test is done have you thought about taking the divider down and blending the two lamps?

 

[one Q]

just naked eye on your pics it looks like the LED have more trichs, other than that I cannot tell the difference! Those are real good shots.

 

[hazy]

Dry weight for Sugar Shack:
hps / led
34.2 / 29.1

hps/led


hps/led


hps/led


hps/led

​

 

[WizeWizo]

Wow! Way to rock them LED's! Seems highly comparable thus far....