clones falling over & dying

[Sam the Caveman]

I've had the worst luck with cloning, I'd say I only get a handful or less of rooted clones for every 40 I cut.

Currently I have two sets of clones I took at different times.

Medium; coco with 30% perlite

Watered with RO water every other day

I don't use rooting hormone, I haven't noticed evidence that it works.

I use a cleaned with alcohol pair of fiskars to take cuttings, strip the bottom nodes, submerge the tip in water and cut at 45 degree angle.

Lighting; ambient sunlight until the evening and then I turn on the lights on the ceiling fan until 11 pm or so, I've noticed too intense light hurts more than it helps.

The leaves will start to shrivel on some, others not at all, and then all the sudden the stem will bend 90 degrees over and proceed to die.

Yesterday I watered with a systemic fungicide (propoconizole) and folair sprayed them with neem oil at a dilution rate of 2 oz per gallon. (thats why the leaves look shiny)

This morning a few more had fallen over and died.



What is going on here, I've researched all I can find with no solutions found.

Whats wrong here?

 

[Talonted]

I dont use the clone domes either. When i mist them, only the taller ones try to fall down. so maybe the length of your cuts plays a roll in drooping. buy a pack of straws and cut V's into one end and shove the other in the dirt for a little kickstand. In my Misting bottle i use 2 or 3 drops of BIOBIZZ bloom formula per liter aswell. Dont know if my methods work better or piss them off more but i dont usually have any die unless i miss one or two with he spray bottle.

I've only ever done this in ProMix HP in the past. "BUT" i took a set of cuts about 3 days ago and im using COCO this time around and nothing has changed so far. Cuts into party cups with straight coco and 5 of 30 have rooted so far. I just pay extra attention to the PH, humidity and soil temps and everything turns out.

 

[DocLeaf]

We dont use rooting hormones either,,, but the use of a dome / propagator lid / plastic bag helps maintain moisture.

The clones are in stasis when they are rooting ,, so without a lid they dehydrate before they root,, and wither away.

Hope this helps.

 

[B.C.]

Having the medium ( whatever it may be, soil, coco, water, etc. ) temps between 72-82 *constantly* will help. Imo 78 degrees is perfect. So, whatever ya gotta do ta make that happen........ I would also invest ina small flouro light, ya don't need nothin fancy, a shop light, under the cupboard kitchen light, etc will work jus fine. Run it 12-14 inches over the top, 24/7. I also like using a dome, but I leave it slightly ajar fera small air exchange. This helps stop mold and damp off disease ( fungus ). This should have ya in more clones than ya know what ta do with in no time. Good luck Sam! BC

 

[schwagg]

have you tried the walmart cloner? that little thing kicks ass! i think the thread is in the organic soil sub forum. let me find it.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&highlight=walmart+cloner

 

[~pHaNtOm~]

Rapid rooters, humidome, cheap rooting powder and 7 days later..Boom

 

[original Blues]

get your self an areoponics propergator throw 20ltrs water ph 5.8 crank the heater up 26c leave to warm up for 24hrs b4 placing the cuts for any crap to evaporate hence leave the lents open air transfer.

get a 2ltr jug of your warm water a bit of rhizotonic ph to 5.8 you will find rizo will shoot up your ph to about 10 be warned! then put your jiffy pucks to soak take your cut dip in clonex sick in your net cups then hang off the corraboard.

you dont need to mess with your pump really the humidity is so intense it keeps the puk moist you will need to sprinkle for a few mins every other day. It normally takes from 5-7 days sometimes 10 depending on how health the mother is. I would go this way asap i tried loads of ways nothing is as easy as this yes expensive yes a little bulky.
But so simple!

be carful when translanting to the new medium roots dont need to be massive maybe 3-5 roots say 10mm long you need to start to lower the temp on your heater to 24c and open the vents leave for 12 hrs min then place a match box under the lid at one end at this stage i usually i give them a spray with a little rizo keep an eye on them then remove the lid this process should be done over 24-48hrs depends on you needs to be safe dont rush them worth thinking about be4 buying a standard propergator check the link http://www.growell.co.uk/p/9456/Aeroponic-Propagators.html

hope it works out 4 ya!

 

[DocLeaf]

Yeah 18-23c is a nice temp good info.

A plastic bag works just as well on 1-2 clones... those sandwich bags are ideal over those small pots of soil.. 1-2 weeks ,, and most strains (unless really temperamental) are rooted up ,, if you doing trays then buy a big clear storage boxes with those hinge clear lids,, jobs a good un!

How we do...

...before the plastic bag (pre-rooted cloned):

.. after the plastic bag (post-rooted and transplanted) :

Don't always believe what they're telling as they're selling it,, when it starts growing its rooted!

Plastic sandwich bags work just fine these sides!

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I don't think they have been drying out, I have been spraying them with RO water at least once a day, sometimes up to 3.

Something is happening to them that is out of the ordinary, I think.

The leaves will start to turn brown on the cut edges and then about 24 hours later the stem bends over and it is completely limp. When I pull it out of the medium the part of the stem that was in the medium is healthy and stiff. It seems it is only effecting the top of the plant.

In some of the pictures you can see how the leaves are effected.

 

[High Country]

This is what I do

1. Very well hydrated and fed mother plants.
2. Take cut, straight into Clonex, I don't worry about doing the cut under water.
3. Into jiffy pellet or a coco/perlite mix 60/40.
4. Into a dome, bottom heat set at 24C or 75F
5. Under a cfl.
6. Remove dome after 5 days
7. After 7 days feed with seaweed extract
8. After 14 days roots should be appearing, prior to this I do not handle the clones at all.

How were your mums, nice and healthy?

 

[Sam the Caveman]

The moms were very healthy, they are as happy as a plant could ask for.

I do appreciate the people who discuss their way of cloning, as it helps me see common denominators in the different approaches, but I am not looking for a new method of cloning, I have tried many different ways and had the best results with rapid rooters. However I do not want to get stuck on the tit of GH Rapid Rooters in order to successfully make clones, I prefer a mass media readily available.

When you compare the cost of rapid rooters to a mass media, its obsurd, especially for me since I have to order them.

I've killed hundreds of cuttings in an aero cloner, its nothing but a cutting death bed for me.

 

[gaiusmarius]

could it be the alcohol on your scissors that's causing the problem? or do you wait for it to evaporate before making the cut? just wondering. i also think you might want to use the dome for the first 7 days at least.

 

[RetroGrow]

I think maybe you are watering them too much. I take cuts and dip them in Olivia's cloning solution for a minute. Then they are put into straight coco that is watered with Olivia's Cloning Solution, diluted according to instructions on bottle. No more watering after that, and no dome, no misting. Roots in 7 days. This gives me roots faster than an aero cloner. I swear by Olivias. Cuts with thicker stems root faster and don't require a dome. Funny how everybody has different methods, and most are successful. I think domes are probably useful for small cuts, but not necessary for larger cuts.

 

[cyberwax]

Simple steps to clone;

bubbler, water temp to 25c and clean with chlorine in between each run. I also use clonex tho, but no dome or misting .

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Now that I think about it, they might be drying out.

Even though I spray them up to 3 times a day, they were sitting under the spinning ceiling fan. Some days, I only spray them once.

I need to come up with some kind of dome for them and a heating mat is on the next to buy list.(along with too many other things)

 

[DocLeaf]

Now that I think about it, they might be drying out.

Even though I spray them up to 3 times a day,

Spraying them will not stop transpiration from the plant tissue happening, it just makes the atmosphere surrounding the clone slightly more humid without a propagator!

 

[Crispywaffle]

I cut my clones and put them in a cup of superthrive treated water (1 drop per quart) I put the cup on the bottom of the veg chamber. Indirect light. I change the water every 2 days. after about 1 week they get dipped in cloneing powder then they go into pre soaked seed starting mixture. I always use a straw to make its planting hole.firm in. all sits in a tray ontop of a germinating heat pad. seems to work great and its reall easy
peace to all great thread.

 

[FreezerBoy]

What is going on here, I've researched all I can find with no solutions found.

Whats wrong here?

My vote is excessive plant material. That much plant requires significant transpiration. Transpiration takes roots and... D'oh! We don't have any roots. Shorter cuts with well trimmed leaves require far less support.

FWIW a 1 minute soak in liquid Hormex improved my success rate 55%-60% but, I'm in a modified bubbler.

 

[Durbanplaya]

I agree with the Doc you neede a dome.

You can use almost anything as a dome. Don't worry about the plastic being too thick and not enough light getting through, I use microwave containers cause I got them cheap. You just want something tp keep the humidity up.

If you desperate and can't find a decent dome? Use cling film and a wire coat hanger to make your own.

If you want to go the product route then look and see if you can get StopWilt.

Peace

 

[High Country]

My vote is excessive plant material. That much plant requires significant transpiration. Transpiration takes roots and... D'oh! We don't have any roots. Shorter cuts with well trimmed leaves require far less support.

FWIW a 1 minute soak in liquid Hormex improved my success rate 55%-60% but, I'm in a modified bubbler.

I forgot about mentioning trimming the leaves to reduce transpiration, I do that to.

Sometimes I just rip them off by hand, other times just reduce size with scissors.
No roots, correct, we do not want vegetative growth at this stage.

Still works.