New grow process?/What to call it?

[generalgrievous]

started my first HyNT brew ...

started my first HyNT brew ...

1 gl. r/o
1 cup EWC
1 tsp. alaska fish fert's 5-1-1
1 tsp. fox farm peace of mind all purpose dry fert 5-5-5
1 tsp. soil secrets earth ambrosia (cultured humus, specified soil micro-organisms, water)
1 tsp. soil secrets earth nectar (bacterial dominated compost,fungal dominated compost, whole seaweed, extract of sea weed, ewc, fulvic acid and cultured humus)
1 tsp. unsulfered bs molasses 1-0-5


this is mother mary's vegatative stage tea recipe. the 2 soil secret products are my addition to the tea. soil secrets is a local, family run company....i have absolute faith in their products and want to support them 100%. i've used earth ambrosia and earth nectar in my vegatable garden and previous cannabis grows.... it's now my permanent secret ingredient.

the tea is being assembled over a 48 hour period in that order so i can take note of ppm count and ph, before and after each addition to the tea. it will than be added to 2 gl. PBP early veg hydrogarden formula at half botanicares recommended strength.... 720 ppm with my tap water..... i used r/o for the tea and r/o for my current grow in bloom, but i wanna drop the EDTA in the cal-mag plus so i'm trading out the r/o and cal-mag+ for my tap @ 270 ppm.

this will be hand watered daily to my 5 'cannabis' (chem d x spacedawg) seedlings that are just returning from a 3 week burn and growth stunt (nuked the shit out of them jumping the gun on their first feeding). at the moment their in 16 oz. coco/perlite, i'll repot in 2gl. smart pots at the flip....

pistils...at the moment the tea is at 450 ppm with the EWC and alaska... my guess is it's gonna be over 1000 ppm before i'm done...was gonna mix 1:2 with nutes at 720ppm.... should i blend nute/tea to shoot for a specific ppm range, or mix accordingly and see where i end up...?

i have a wide array of pumps at my disposal...how much air should i move through one gl. of tea vs. 3 gl. HyNT brew.... ?

3.8 l w/ one stone, 7.8 w/ 2 stones or something larger, have a 40 lite 1/4 inch but that will aerate a bunch of buckets so thats gotta be to aggressive.... i doubt the micro-dudes like to get beaten up....

 

[pray4pistils]

How close to organic is this?

Without a medium at all (besides air) your system is at the same time amazing, totally unnatural, and yet still basically "organic" (considering what you're feeding). Frankly, I don't value the distinction between what's called organic and what's not very highly. That's more about marketing than actual science -especially when you analyze the fine details. Long-term sustainability (including human and environmental health) is the really important issue in my set of values.

I'd love to learn what your results are. Due to perceived clogging dangers my mind is prejudiced against using organic nutes in an aeroponic system. Yet you're doing it with success. Please let us know how you're avoiding trouble and what works for you in general. That root mass looks HAPPY.

everyone should read that and read it good it explains everything i was saying and a hole lot more

That excellent article does explain a "whole lot more". But, it doesn't mention your points about cut off enzymes or the interaction between synthetics and the exudate/chemical signaling process. If you can point to another article that backs up your points (theories?), though, I'd love to read it!

but i dont find any nutes here where i live thats why i wanted to go all natural cause i have no other choice :\

Didn't you link us to a page of wonderful nutes that are available in your country? Why not use those? Rednick's advice is great. I also recommend starting with something simple that you know is a balanced formula. Then, branch off and add your own stuff. Or, research your raw ingredients to the point that you're sure of their contents. Everything he said is going to help you.

this is mother mary's vegatative stage tea recipe. the 2 soil secret products are my addition to the tea.

That looks perfect to me, man.

pistils...at the moment the tea is at 450 ppm with the EWC and alaska... my guess is it's gonna be over 1000 ppm before i'm done...

Or, the ppm could actually drop (depending on whether your unique selection of bacteria are binding minerals within their bodies or excreting their refined forms into the water). Just look for the trends whether they're ppm increase or reduction. Eventually, all that good stuff will be released and made available to the plants. This may happen in a sudden "pulse" (or series of them) or it could happen slowly over time without noticeable spikes in the ppm count. Btw, when we discuss ppm we should note whether we're using the 500 or 700 scale. Or, just report EC because that's standardized for everybody.

was gonna mix 1:2 with nutes at 720ppm.... should i blend nute/tea to shoot for a specific ppm range, or mix accordingly and see where i end up...?

I've been mixing enough FloraNova to hit 2/3 of my usual ppm and then just adding the balanced organic brew and just end up where I end up. This might be the optimal procedure or we might later learn how to do it better.

i have a wide array of pumps at my disposal...how much air should i move through one gl. of tea vs. 3 gl. HyNT brew.... ?

Again, I haven't gotten this down to a true science, yet. At this point I add enough air to make the bucket appear to be actively boiling. Now, exactly how many liters per hour of air flow is that and what are the relative effects of one flow rate vs another? You tell me; there's a lot of demonstration/learning to do around here.

 

[Terramoto]

You sure composana nutes wont harm me, considering im gonna be smoking the weed
im saying these cause theres alot of chemicals used on other types of plants and since these nutes arent specifically for cannabis i dont want to get cancer or anything else from the thing i love to smoke most. Anyway, if those work i can start with those and later start feeding them with my own nutes

 

[asstastic]

Without a medium at all (besides air) your system is at the same time amazing, totally unnatural, and yet still basically "organic" (considering what you're feeding). Frankly, I don't value the distinction between what's called organic and what's not very highly. That's more about marketing than actual science -especially when you analyze the fine details. Long-term sustainability (including human and environmental health) is the really important issue in my set of values.

I'd love to learn what your results are. Due to perceived clogging dangers my mind is prejudiced against using organic nutes in an aeroponic system. Yet you're doing it with success. Please let us know how you're avoiding trouble and what works for you in general. That root mass looks HAPPY.



That excellent article does explain a "whole lot more". But, it doesn't mention your points about cut off enzymes or the interaction between synthetics and the exudate/chemical signaling process. If you can point to another article that backs up your points (theories?), though, I'd love to read it!



Didn't you link us to a page of wonderful nutes that are available in your country? Why not use those? Rednick's advice is great. I also recommend starting with something simple that you know is a balanced formula. Then, branch off and add your own stuff. Or, research your raw ingredients to the point that you're sure of their contents. Everything he said is going to help you.



That looks perfect to me, man.



Or, the ppm could actually drop (depending on whether your unique selection of bacteria are binding minerals within their bodies or excreting their refined forms into the water). Just look for the trends whether they're ppm increase or reduction. Eventually, all that good stuff will be released and made available to the plants. This may happen in a sudden "pulse" (or series of them) or it could happen slowly over time without noticeable spikes in the ppm count. Btw, when we discuss ppm we should note whether we're using the 500 or 700 scale. Or, just report EC because that's standardized for everybody.



I've been mixing enough FloraNova to hit 2/3 of my usual ppm and then just adding the balanced organic brew and just end up where I end up. This might be the optimal procedure or we might later learn how to do it better.



Again, I haven't gotten this down to a true science, yet. At this point I add enough air to make the bucket appear to be actively boiling. Now, exactly how many liters per hour of air flow is that and what are the relative effects of one flow rate vs another? You tell me; there's a lot of demonstration/learning to do around here.

ya i relized it was missing that enzyme microbe relation ship so im searching my server for that other article
i thought it was in organic on here but ill find it its a good read
it is in organics now i remember thats why organics dont burn ill go get it its in organics for beginers

 

[Clackamas Coot]

ya i relized it was missing that enzyme microbe relation ship so im searching my server for that other article
i thought it was in organic on here but ill find it its a good read
it is in organics now i remember thats why organics dont burn ill go get it its in organics for beginers

asstastic

If you hit EMAmerica.com and review the EM-1 science about using anaerobic microbes as a way to increase yield and overall health in an organic grow - I'm sure that you'll find it fascinating and perhaps interesting.

Another good read about using these anaerobic microbes to create Fermented Plant Extracts is reading about Gil Carandang's work in this area.

Again - interesting reading if nothing else.

CC

 

[asstastic]

thanks sounds interesting i love this thread im learning so much p4p and cc you guys are my best friends when it comes to nutes
thanks a mil and any other info would help alot
thanks

 

[pray4pistils]

If you hit EMAmerica.com and review the EM-1 science about using anaerobic microbes as a way to increase yield and overall health in an organic grow - I'm sure that you'll find it fascinating and perhaps interesting.

Yo, Coot. I purchased a liter bottle of EM-1 this morning from their website. I'll have a report about that within a couple of weeks. Also, I stopped by Whole Foods and purchased some coconut water. This stuff is LOADED with potassium and trace minerals. It's also jam packed with cytokinin (growth) hormones. Here's some good introductory reading about it. But, since you're a techie you'll want to really concentrate on the details here.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Thanks for the link - without knowing it you settled a 'discussion' on a main-stream gardening board.

I owe you! LOL

CC

 

[pray4pistils]

You sure composana nutes wont harm me, considering im gonna be smoking the weed
im saying these cause theres alot of chemicals used on other types

I'll take a closer look at those nutes, but they should work fine for you. It there's lots of chemical salts in there, you can do a week to 10 days of plain water flushing at the end. Or, instead, you can feed the (pre-digested) pure organic stuff that you have in mind so that the plant doesn't starve. You'll be fine.

P.S. If you do use those products and if they do contain synthetics... and, if then you add organics on top... you'll be doing a hybrid grow just like most of us! Stick around here and let us know how your adventure goes.

thanks sounds interesting i love this thread im learning so much p4p and cc you guys are my best friends when it comes to nutes

The party's only just started, my man. Keep the questions and input flowin'.

 

[asstastic]

good read how did you come across the idea to use cocanut water that shit is gonna be perfict for veg
you got it from hole foods was it cheap and how are you gonna apply it

 

[pray4pistils]

good read how did you come across the idea to use cocanut water that shit is gonna be perfict for veg
you got it from hole foods was it cheap and how are you gonna apply it

Actually, I'm using it in on my flowering plants right now. Cytokinins regulate growth in general -not just during the vegatative stage. One thing nice that it does for a flowering plant is reduce the plant's tendency to drop leaves ("senesence" in botanical jargon). It also tells the plant to concentrate its energies on growing everything except for the roots. My girls already have massive root systems (enhanced by the mycorrhizae fungus, too). So, this change in priorities is welcome! For the same reason, though, I might not recommend using it on very young plants without mature roots. I added about .75 liter to my latest tea batch and drank the rest. It's like natural Gatorade! This stuff is amazingly rich in nutrients and tastes pretty good, too. Btw, it's acidic measuring about 5.0 on the pH pen.

As for the idea... ... ... (thinking)... Frankly, I don't remember anymore. Perhaps it was during my research of kelp's chemical properties that I learned about cytokinin's role in growth regulation. Both kelp and coconut water contains loads of the stuff, so it might have been mentioned in the same article. Regardless, this stuff looks seriously great in the tech papers. So, let's hope it gets the job done and then some. My plants are seriously seriously bushy -even the sativas. That's thanks to the kelp, minimized difference between daytime/nighttime temperatures, as well as the LST that I love to do. We'll see if this stuff enhances the effect yet further. Unfortunately, coconut water ain't cheap around here. Retail price was $4.99 for a liter.

P.S. (@everybody): I applied some Bushmaster the other day in plain water. (Last time I did it with regular nutes and burnt my ladies a lil' bit.) The stress on the Alaskan Ice plants (haze sativa pheno = "sensitive") is evident but thankfully pretty mild. Vertical stretch has been stopped cold on all the plants and the buds are noticeably more "furry" with pistils than the day before. I'm sure that the plants are really hungry now. So, I foliar fed with the lower 2/3 this morning just before the lights went out (1/4 strength nutes + tea). The rez was changed out and is set to 1120ppm including a double dose of organics. It's time for some BUDS, mofos.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

P.S. (@everybody): I applied some Bushmaster the other day in plain water

NO!!!!

Please tell me that you're kidding! Please!

This stuff is bunk and by their own 'filings' with various state agencies it only confirms that!

LOL

CC

 

[asstastic]

Actually, I'm using it in on my flowering plants right now. Cytokinins regulate growth in general -not just during the vegatative stage. One thing nice that it does for a flowering plant is reduce the plant's tendency to drop leaves ("senesence" in botanical jargon). It also tells the plant to concentrate its energies on growing everything except for the roots. My girls already have massive root systems (enhanced by the mycorrhizae fungus, too). So, this change in priorities is welcome! For the same reason, though, I might not recommend using it on very young plants without mature roots

i should have been more specific
it produces axuins which is what tells the top of the plant to grow fastes and when lsting the reason you pull the top lower than the rest of the branches so if i use this in veging on my lst'd plants it will help them grow even faster cuz there will be more axuin to spread around
i dabble in that on every grow in one way or another but ive been woundering how to make more auxin to go around and thank you

 

[pray4pistils]

NO!!!! Please tell me that you're kidding! Please!

Nope, I'm not kidding. I know you told me that it was the same as the Gravity hardener stuff (or I think that's what you told me) at 4x the price. Well, I already owned it so I'm just getting rid of existing "inventory". Again, though, the stretch has stopped or at least slowed to a crawl. So, no harm no foul (aside from the minor temporary stress on my wussy sativas). Take a deep breath, Coot! It's all good.

 

[grapeman]

Actually, I'm using it in on my flowering plants right now. Cytokinins regulate growth in general -not just during the vegatative stage. One thing nice that it does for a flowering plant is reduce the plant's tendency to drop leaves ("senesence" in botanical jargon). It also tells the plant to concentrate its energies on growing everything except for the roots. My girls already have massive root systems (enhanced by the mycorrhizae fungus, too). So, this change in priorities is welcome! For the same reason, though, I might not recommend using it on very young plants without mature roots. I added about .75 liter to my latest tea batch and drank the rest. It's like natural Gatorade! This stuff is amazingly rich in nutrients and tastes pretty good, too. Btw, it's acidic measuring about 5.0 on the pH pen.

As for the idea... ... ... (thinking)... Frankly, I don't remember anymore. Perhaps it was during my research of kelp's chemical properties that I learned about cytokinin's role in growth regulation.

I'm going to take slight issue with your post above as to the role of Cytokinins. It will not tell your plant where to concentrate growth and I highly doubt it will tell your plant not to drop leaves at senesence. I've used Cytokinins since @ 1987. they are not growth regulators nor do they regulate growth. Mostly, they help the plants in the speed and efficiency of cell division (helps the plant do a little better whatever the plants are doing at the time).

If you apply Cytokinins during a time of rapid root growth, you are likely to see even better root growth. Application on fruit during Anthocyanin accumulation (the pigment that actually make red fruit red), might bring a faster color change of the fruit. Or at fruit sizing or flowering stage, may help in enabling larger fruit (or flowers) and cell differentiation. All Cytokinins will do is help the plant do more efficiently what the plant is already doing or getting ready to do of it's own volition.

But keep in mind, for Cytokinins to be effective and for you to notice any positive improvement, any plant needs to be really well dialed in. Lacking nothing in the nutrient area and not undergoing any stress, either water stress or weather stress or pest stress.

What Cytokinins do, if your plant is running on all cylinders, is increase the rpm of the engine just a tad. Measurable, but barely. Cytokinins applied on any plant undergoing any stress or deficiency will result in nothing at all.

Using it on a large scale (100 acres or greater), I've found that it produced a positive measurable effect maybe 2 out of 5 seasons. I attribute the failures to weather patterns or other stresses.

Indoors, you can be more successful, but it is not the holy grail of chemicals, it only helps the plant do what it doing at the time of application, and do it a tad bit better if all other things are perfect.

I used to buy Cytokinins as an additive, from Westbridge Chemical (tradename "Trigger" I think). No longer. I've since gone to kelp and seaweed extracts in our sprayers and mixes as it is less expensive making applications possible during the entire grow increasing the possibility that it may be successful at least at some time during the grow. And all the Cytokinins needed are already present in the kelp or seaweed extract. Early soil applications on roots and the rest of the grow via foliar and soil.

If you want to do it right, stick to kelp products. The thing is, most folks already use kelp products in their grow.

It is not a growth regulator.

 

[pray4pistils]

Alrighty, fair enough. In casual layman's speak I was using the term "growth regulator" to summarize what you shared in your first paragraph. How would a true "growth regulator" differ in operation and can you name any to help me distinguish between the two?

Secondly, one of the two articles that I linked to a few hours ago mentioned that leaf senesence was less likely to happen when cytokinin slows the cellular aging process. There's also info in there that says that root development may be slowed in favor of elsewhere in the plant. Your points about the plant being motivated to do what it's already doing probably mesh with this idea during flowering.

Or, perhaps I've interpreted those two links incorrectly. Provide some more food for thought, if you please.

 

[grapeman]

Alrighty, fair enough. In casual layman's speak I was using the term "growth regulator" to summarize what you shared in your first paragraph. How would a true "growth regulator" differ in operation and can you name any to help me distinguish between the two?

Secondly, one of the two articles that I linked to a few hours ago mentioned that leaf senesence was less likely to happen when cytokinin slows the cellular aging process. There's also info in there that says that root development may be slowed in favor of elsewhere in the plant. Your points about the plant being motivated to do what it's already doing probably mesh with this idea during flowering.

Or, perhaps I've interpreted those two links incorrectly. Provide some more food for thought, if you please.

OK - I truly can't decide if this is even a scientific paper or a coconut water ad masquerading as a scientific paper. senesence is mentioned with a footnote #44, which I googled. That study is a real study.

Anyway - I am agreeing with you that cytokinins are relevant. Just not essential. I stand by my previous post.

As I tried to explain above, cytokinins just help the plant accelerate cell division. I have found over the years that kelp has all the cytokinins needed.

Plant Growth Regulators are easy to spot as they have been classified by CDFA as Pesticides. LOL Dumb but true.

GA (GIBBERELLIC ACID) is a plant growth regulator. When used, It actually forces the plant to take action. Makes fruit bigger. Stretches inter nodal spacing on shoots etc. CPPU is another. In fact, here is an article for you to read on how CPPU is more biologically active then cytokinins.. don't get too excited though, I've used CPPU and it is a frankenstein of a PGR. I have some. I wouldn't waste my time using it on this crop.

http://westernfarmpress.com/news/farming_cppu_shows_virtues/

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Nope, I'm not kidding. I know you told me that it was the same as the Gravity hardener stuff (or I think that's what you told me) at 4x the price. Well, I already owned it so I'm just getting rid of existing "inventory". Again, though, the stretch has stopped or at least slowed to a crawl. So, no harm no foul (aside from the minor temporary stress on my wussy sativas). Take a deep breath, Coot! It's all good.

Aarggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL - read labels! This stuff isn't worth diddly-squat and I can prove it!!!!!!

Damn! I thought we were making progress!! LOL

Seriously - I read labels and this stuff is kiddy-toys - I ain't joking!

CC

 

[Stoned Crow]

Aarggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL - read labels! This stuff isn't worth diddly-squat and I can prove it!!!!!!

Damn! I thought we were making progress!! LOL

Seriously - I read labels and this stuff is kiddy-toys - I ain't joking!

CC

Geez C.C., you just shit-canned 11 pages..........SC

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Geez C.C., you just shit-canned 11 pages..........SC

LOL - sometimes things really are this simple!

One of my favorite pastimes is to figure out how to 'back engineer' grow-store bunk but Humboldt County's Own is just way too simple. Anyone can do it.

Trust me.

CC