8.0 Ph ... Too high?

[gaviao]

OrganicMonkey, 8.0 isn't the pH of my mix, it's the pH of my water. Also EWC = Earth Worm Castings. I've read a lot of the organic guys (i.e. Crazy Composer) don't bother with pH testing their water because a healthy organic mix should be able to control the pH. I was never sure what pH water these guys were starting out with. My question was more along the lines if a good mix can handle that high of a pH. I was using RO water before and wanted to try the tap this time around because my understanding it that tap is supposed to be more beneficial to organic grows. I don't have a pH meter, just a drop test kit. Thanks for the responses. Wouldn't mind some more.

 

[mad librettist]

nothing beats experimentation... got any bagseed?

 

[bakelite]

When I find that my soil pH is too high (or suspect it due to deficiencies), I water my plants with peat water. I do so knowing that the dolomite that I put in the soil will buffer the pH and bring it back to where it needs to be. I just did this the other day to a bunch of well rooted clones that were very sluggish and seemed to be struggling. The plants perked right up within a few days after adding the peat water. I know that with a properly established microherd ones soil should correct itself, but I have found peat water to work for times the microherd doesn't

-bakelite

 

[VerdantGreen]

canna organic pH down is made with citric acid.

 

[C21H30O2]

i use earth juice crystals, but only when giving straight water. teas go in as is.

 

[grapeman]

I don't take sides here but just to point out that there have been times that I have run hydrochloric acid through my drip system on the soil. No problems as long as you mind your ppm's.

Used sulfuric acid also.

In fact, it did the plants some good and cleaned the hoses at the same time.

 

[mad librettist]

Yeah but in organic growing it's best to address problems, not cover them up.

 

[independent_1]

Could someone shed some light on using fulvic acid to help in this situation? From my understanding it feeds the fungi side of the micro world bringing ph down naturally? Maybe a tea of ewc,kelp and fulvic acid...

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Yeah but in organic growing it's best to address problems, not cover them up.

Whereas non-organic growing you just cover your problems up?

Saying PH "doesn't matter" just isn't accurate... it does matter, just not as much so if you've got a proper organic mix.

I would say 8.0 is too high, but if that's what you've been giving them and they're healthy, it must work for your mix.

 

[OPT]

I've used LC's mix exactly as stated except one fuck up, and that was the lime I was using. At the time I thought I had dolomite lime because that's "what i ordered" way back then. After having a few sluggish starts for my seedlings I couldn't figure out why.

That's when I found out that my so called Dolomite lime was actually Hydrated Lime, which is very fast acting, and not the same as the real stuff.

Since then My plants are in flowering now, and at around day 30ish in 12/12 I noticed random thanks being wrong, and defiencies of what looked to be either Potassium, or calcium but I couldn't figure out why.

From my understanding and the things I've seen around here, LC's mix will do just fine from start to finish if followed exactly.

I've never checked the PH of my water, or mix, because I have always read it's not needed with this style of growing.

I have recently started growing using Coco only with chemical nutrients so I found a reason to have to check the PH of my water.

My PH is at 8.2, and since I used hydrated lime, I feel the lime was leeched and used up from my mix, by the time the problems started.

I have since been PHing my water down to around 6.8 for the past few waterings. It's hard to say if this is exactly my problem, but to me, there is no other way it can be that off.

By the hydrated lime being used up, I assume that the buffering capabilities that were in the mix are no longer there.

Call it a hunch, but I would recommend from now on, since it only takes 2 seconds, to always PH your water.

That way if something were to happen that looks like a defiency, you will know that the PH of your water your giving your plants is not the cause.

OPT

 

[gaviao]

I've been using citric acid to lower the pH down to 6.5. Thanks Verdant. Also I'm tired of using these pH drops. Can anyone recommend a reliable pH meter?

 

[VerdantGreen]

i used a pretty cheep one from ebay for a while till i broke it - now i have a more expensive one but it takes longer to give a reading which is annoying. as long as you calibrate it with buffer solution occasionally it should be fine. i find you learn how much solution it takes to correct the pH and this is a good failsafe to make sure your meter isnt lying to you.

VG.

 

[staff11]

I feel so lucky having a decent reliable tap water source. Makes things so much easier for me, but I feel for you guys that have to adjust.

 

[OPT]

I've recently bought a Milwaukee PH meter from ebay. It comes with a calibration solution and is very easy to calibrate. Seems to be working good for me so far, but I'd second what Verdant said about keeping it calibrated occasionally.

I too think that eventually i'll get the hang of how much PH down i need per gallon to where I might not have to use the PH pen every single time.

The meter cost me around 20 bucks.

OPT

 

[fishwater]

I have came to the conclusion that there are several different reasons why water can be of a high ph. Also, there are different solutions to each reason the ph is high.
Opt, just my pinion, the hydrated lime is still there, it wont go away that fast. Even though lime is a buffer, it will not buffer 8ph water down to 7ph. It will buffer 5ph up to the mid 6 range. It really is only effective in the lower ph scale. Assuming you have some sort of peat in your mix, that is what the lime is for, besides the cal and mag.

It has taken me quite awhile and many trial and errors in the last few months to come to this conclusion. I had several male plants from my last run that I have been keeping around to experiment on.

ANYONE that disagrees with me here, please speak up. I am still learning and very willing to learn more.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Don't calibrate occasionally, calibrate regularly.

 

[VerdantGreen]

I have came to the conclusion that there are several different reasons why water can be of a high ph. Also, there are different solutions to each reason the ph is high.
Opt, just my pinion, the hydrated lime is still there, it wont go away that fast. Even though lime is a buffer, it will not buffer 8ph water down to 7ph. It will buffer 5ph up to the mid 6 range. It really is only effective in the lower ph scale. Assuming you have some sort of peat in your mix, that is what the lime is for, besides the cal and mag.

It has taken me quite awhile and many trial and errors in the last few months to come to this conclusion. I had several male plants from my last run that I have been keeping around to experiment on.

ANYONE that disagrees with me here, please speak up. I am still learning and very willing to learn more.

i agree, lime afaik only buffers acidic pH down towards 7. it will not buffer pH above 7 (alkali) towards 7. this is why i think it may be important to water at a pH below 7 - especially when using dolomite lime in the soil mix.

V.

 

[fishwater]

I also use Verdants method with the citric acid. It seems to make the ph stay where you mix it to longer if you mix 2 tablespoons chrystals in a pint of your water, then add littel bits of that to get ph down to where you want, which is 6.2 for me.

If I just add chrystals directly to my water, the ph will rise rather rapidly. With Verdants method, it only raises .1 per day.

Could just be my water tho... but thats what works for me now......

 

[mad librettist]

what about gypsum?

Calcium Sulfate, no? seems to me it would buffer high pH downwards, but my chemistry sense is weak.

 

[OPT]

Fishwater,

Thanks for your reply, I never knew that. I believe that explains some of my problems I've been having here mid to late flower. I'm so close to chop time that there's nothing I can do about it now, but I will keep that in mind in the future!

I have since switched from organic style growing to coco coir, and thus far, I'm loving the coco, so who knows if i'll ever go back to organics, but if I do, i'll make sure to lower the PH of the water I'm using. I already have to do that in coco, so it'll become a consistant thing from now on!

OPT