need advice on air conditioners for my flower room

[grow nerd]

What I'm saying is, where are you exhausting the hot air produced by the A/C? You realize all A/C units work by the concept of moving heat from one side to another, and is a net producer of heat as it takes the heat from one side, moves it to the other, and adds heat from the electricity / work used to do that move.

 

[toohighmf]

Find me a 2 ton AC that runs on 7 amps...
I never said to use iceboxes on the hoods. I said to use them on duct like AC.
Your talking to a guy who cools his 10kw room with 10k BTU's and 1300cfm of online fans. My $500 AC and 4 iceboxes/pump/manifolds will cool my room, the hoods, my burner, my res etc. It's been proven that water cooling is much more efficient than Air conditioning. Besides, how much is a 2 ton mini split? Doh!

 

[grow nerd]

Wait, what? 10k BTU's isn't 2 tons. 1300cfm of what fans? I thought you ran a CEA room. Oh, wait, a chiller and an extra A/C, just as I had suspected.

A brand-new 2-ton mini-split system costs less than your setup, every single time, and outperforms it. And, it's not anywhere near as complicated.

But, I can totally see why you love that system. Your "customers" must be paying you out the ass to get all this expensive equipment installed with the huge amount of labor involved in setting up a much more unnecessarily complicated system. And of course, that keeps income flowing in on the books 'cuz they'll need you to fix it when something goes wrong (since it's unnecessarily complicated to begin with.) Now, I see. Good game plan, sir. Gotta stack that paper somehow!

Why not just get one of those "Coolerado" units if water cooling / super efficiency is your thing?

 

[GuyManDude]

i understand that i will need to vent the heat from the ac unit. Let me further explain. I am currently running 1600 watts in the flower room, which I build myself. The room has ruunning water, which I installed, running tap and RO water. I ran a 60 amp line from the main breaker box into a smaller breaker box that I installed. I vent the heat from my room into the old vent pipe from the boiler i removed. the ac heat and the heat from the air cooled hoods will vent into that and up through the roof. I will build a mod, like the one posted earlier to vent the heat form the AC unit IF i go with a window AC unit.
What I trying to get is some suggestions as to how many BTU's, go with either a portable or and AC unit, and a possible brand that folks are happy with and has not caused problems.

please put the damn drama in another thread. I'm trying to get some damn help here. Come on people.

 

[toohighmf]

Wait, what? 10k BTU's isn't 2 tons. 1300cfm of what fans? I thought you ran a CEA room. Oh, wait, a chiller and an extra A/C, just as I had suspected.

A brand-new 2-ton mini-split system costs less than your setup, every single time, and outperforms it. And, it's not anywhere near as complicated.

But, I can totally see why you love that system. Your "customers" must be paying you out the ass to get all this expensive equipment installed with the huge amount of labor involved in setting up a much more unnecessarily complicated system. And of course, that keeps income flowing in on the books 'cuz they'll need you to fix it when something goes wrong (since it's unnecessarily complicated to begin with.) Now, I see. Good game plan, sir. Gotta stack that paper somehow!

Why not just get one of those "Coolerado" units if water cooling / super efficiency is your thing?

I was talking about a 10 year old 2/3rd ton window unit that came with the building, and air cooling & 4 435cfm inlines.. never said 10kw was 1 ton let alone 2. no water cooling at all. for my 16 lighter, I will be watercooling, and oh how unreliable a retrofitted chiller, flotec pump and trans cooler, tankless water heaters & radiators are!!! the whole extra 4 hours labor building water manifolds and mounting 4 iceboxes to a max 10" fan on rigid duct is so not worth it! dont do it GN!!! oh yeah how much is that mini split? how much are 3? like your running in a 12k room??? I own a friedrich 30K BTU mini split. it was $2800. I can only imagine what 3 2 tons must cost.. unless you buy a shitty chinese knockoff. I could by a 3.5 split unit for $2k...
oh yeah, I ran Sealed and Aircooled. no air penetrates the room from the outside and the exhaust gets dumped out the crawl via a 6" fan, and none of it smells because my duct is clear rigid insulated PBT tube that is swaged on via heat. just through lights. nothing else. don't mess w me, Nerd. you might be able to frame a room, run some wire, insulate and drywall, but I got you so beat in the grow dept its laughable. seriously. your rooms can't compete. I run 4kw now and power 16 hoods. I get just shy or over 16'. I got you beat by GPW/kWh it's not even funny!

 

[grow nerd]

You "got me beat"? LOL I'm not here to compare dick size, brother. I'm just telling you that you "lucking out" with equipment that came with the building that happened to be useful doesn't really equate to "good method" or "efficient method".

Wow, wow, wow, I'm soooo impressed by your 16 hoods. Is that what you wanted to hear?

And... like, now that you "finally decide" to "concede" to my room building skills, you're gonna pull this "well, OK, fine, you got me there in the growrooms, BUT I still got you in the growing!! ha ha ha! I got you!!!".

Now calm yourself down.

Pfft. See ya around.

(PS - you really made my day with that last post.)

 

[The Phoenix]

Oh, really? Wanna talk to me about efficiency? Let's talk.

Ok, so instead of cooling your room with this A/C, you're now cooling this water (which was heated through the use of your Ice Boxes). And really, you're removing the same amount of BTU's one way or another. I will concede to the fact that water can transfer heat a little better than air, but that's not gonna come close to making up for any of the many "cons" the Ice Box system will draw up. Forget the fact that the setup cost is way higher and more complicated (and thus more potential for problems). Or the fact that it is more work. Or the fact that it is no more efficient, and in some implementations proven to be far less efficient and far more costly. Of course the room itself will need cooling through the use of another cooling system (likely another A/C) if you're running more than a couple of lights.

You really wanna talk to me about efficiency there, buddy?

Maybe "think outside of marketed products geared towards the hobby grower who already has a setup and needs to alleviate an issue with a plug-in fix" is more like it for you...

Your turn. Explain to me why this Ice Box system is so efficient. Or what advantages you have or what you gain by using it. I think you're gonna have a real tough time coming up with a worthy "pros" list at all.

Grow Nerd,

I saw you advertising your services in the employment section of these forums, but after reading this post and others, then I am sorry to say that I would not hire you to build my grow room, or mow my lawn either.

So setting up a water cooled system is too complicated for you. To bad, and you advertised yourself as such an expert at growroom setup. Water cooled is so much more efficient at cooling the room, and no need for venting and other issues when you have tough AC and venting issues. Whats so hard about using PVC piping, fittings, and glue to solve a complex cooling senario. No more difficult than dealing with tough AC and venting issues if you have any building talent. Water cooled is cheaper to run and much more efficent than AC, and solves venting issues.

 

[grow nerd]

The Phoenix, I'm not so sure that I would take on such a closed-minded and clueless client. Although, for the right amount of money I'll do almost anything.

What "venting issues" are you going to have with an AC, that you won't with a chiller? You don't have to take care of the heat from the chiller? A BTU isn't a BTU?

No one said it's difficult, not even me. I said it's unnecessarily complicated. Add up the costs for me, itemize it, and compare the totals for how much time and work it would take to set that up. Now, you don't have to post the results if you don't want to, but I would appreciate a "you were right" if you don't.

Or, why don't you show me any one of your rooms that you so well designed? An explanation of why certain design decisions were made and how you benefit from it would be excellent. But I doubt you'll be able to do either, mark my words.

Thanks for taking time to reload my clip.

 

[toohighmf]

lucking out having an old wall unit in a space with a crawl.. If your not trying to prove that you are better, & smarter to not only me, but everyone else. You don't have me in grow rooms, you have too much an ego to even pretend to learn from others, and you really don't have any proof with the exception of your new thread, which is a framed room with exterior wiring.. Whoop d Doo! look at my galleries, threads. I build systems that are fail safe and yield. Then of course there is the nutritional side that I can beat you upside the head with. I'm not bragging. I'm just tired of hearing you slander the opinions of others as though your an authority on the subject. Pfftt. see ya around. I hope not.

 

[The Phoenix]

Dealing with a few water lines running into the grow room from the chiller can be much easier to deal with than many AC senarios, especialy window AC units. The energy savings are there, and the complexity of some water lines is not something to worry about.

 

[grow nerd]

GuyManDude, the size of the A/C required in this situation heavily depends on the size of your burner, how well your room is sealed, and how often it will be running. Now re-read that sentence and remember this.

With most unmodified window A/C's, it will exchange air even if you set it to "non-recirculate" mode! I think I faintly recall a specific model of dual-hose portable A/C's out there that does not exchange air, but every other one (yes, including dual-hose) I've seen or heard of does exchange air. What does this mean? This means that the A/C unit will suck out your CO2, meaning the burner will have to run longer / more often, meaning you'll need a bigger A/C, and so on... almost a vicious cycle in some setups.

 

[toohighmf]

What "venting issues" are you going to have with an AC, that you won't with a chiller? You don't have to take care of the heat from the chiller? A BTU isn't a BTU?

No one said it's difficult, not even me. I said it's unnecessarily complicated. Add up the costs for me, itemize it, and compare the totals for how much time and work it would take to set that up. Now, you don't have to post the results if you don't want to, but I would appreciate a "you were right" if you don't.

Or, why don't you show me any one of your rooms that you so well designed? An explanation of why certain design decisions were made and how you benefit from it would be excellent. But I doubt you'll be able to do either, mark my words.

Thanks for taking time to reload my clip.

why don't you post some builds, and I'll post some of mine..

 

[grow nerd]

toohighmf, I have several other usernames on this site as well as most other canna forums. Those who know, know (and there are many on this site who know.) I'm not here to compare dick size. I'm just here to tell you that you are wrong.

I came to this site in '06 without too much clue on how to handle a screwdriver or grow a plant of any kind. You can say I haven't learned much.

 

[toohighmf]

Prove that I am wrong, and I will forever jock thee...

 

[GuyManDude]

GuyManDude, the size of the A/C required in this situation heavily depends on the size of your burner, how well your room is sealed, and how often it will be running. Now re-read that sentence and remember this.

With most unmodified window A/C's, it will exchange air even if you set it to "non-recirculate" mode! I think I faintly recall a specific model of dual-hose portable A/C's out there that does not exchange air, but every other one (yes, including dual-hose) I've seen or heard of does exchange air. What does this mean? This means that the A/C unit will suck out your CO2, meaning the burner will have to run longer / more often, meaning you'll need a bigger A/C, and so on... almost a vicious cycle in some setups.

yup, i am aware that most ac units will exchange air, thanks, that's a very good point.
can anyone recommend one that doesn't?

put it this way: what AC units are y'all using and are happy with using?

 

[toohighmf]

cheap recirculating window units for small jobs. recirculating units do not expel co2 or the very cold air your generating. I use big expensive full home Splits for big jobs. Then for those who can afford it, I strongly recommend water cooling. figure it takes about half the price of lighting the room monthly to cool it running bare bulb. water cooled your looking at a third of that, and you will get your room cool enough to run all summer. not to mention the labor of a real split unit. the mini splits are nice, but they are expensive. a mini split is 2x the price of a 2 ton window/wall ac. & draws the same current. to me fans, iceboxes and a decent chiller is the way to maximize both efficiency and lower temps.

 

[RipVanWeed]

GMD, In the past I ran a 4'x4' crate



with a 1k vert cooltube.



Mounted an 8.5k btu window A/C in an A/C box ala HoosierDaddy. You can just see the A/C lower left.
Worked fine with no odor blown outside through the exhaust. But it was expensive to operate.



Recently I built a growroom in my garage,



11' x 12' x 9.5' tall.



Just finished installing a 24k btu minisplit by Friedrich,



very pleased, the A/C was online for $1499....$1850 with lineset and handling, selfinstalled.



$110 to have a HVAC tech come out and vaccum the lines before startup.

I don't think anyone can tell you exactly what you need, keep reading all you can



and then decide yourself.



It's your grow and your dolla. The minisplit's are so efficent now (18 seer!). If your gonna be there awhile, consider renting the proper equipment to bore a 3" hole through that basement wall and you'll never look back.

Good Luck, I just went through this same senario, tough choices.



Much Respect,

 

[YosemiteSam]

Can Friedrichs be purchased online?

How small do they go? Can one get UV sterilization on them?

 

[toohighmf]

http://www.genieac.com

 

[grow nerd]

Prove that I am wrong, and I will forever jock thee...

I have plenty of detailed room build threads here under different usernames, goes into much further detail and better design & technology than you currently display, and that was 1-2 years ago. Quit asking me to "prove it", or you just might continued to get slapped in the face with embarrassment. As if I haven't "proved" multiple times already what little substance there is behind what you say.