The use of our planet is no longer sustainable

[9Lives]

First of ..WWF is nothing but a propaganda ”outfit” funded by Rockefellers and these guys …oil-men!! …think about it, any conflicts of interests??!!! ..of course not (Rockefellers & co. prolly will make billions and billions with THEIR “green energy”)

Here’ how you sustain Earth for prolly more than 10 billion people ..brought to us by Nikola Tesla and these guys.. this Ether-technology is also KEPT away from humanity by these same oilers who fund WWF & Greenpeace etc ..they actually started out/created these organizations in the first place (“to stear the conversation to THEIR liking) …put I have a heavy pot-paranoia, so don’t listen to anything that I say ..heh-heh …I just make things up all the time ..all of it.)

Check this link-thread out ..might be abit scientific, but not any type of boring (sophist bull shit) math and diagrams.. and you have to do pretty much all the research/reading, so ..
..maybe not for “children” who like their “potatoes peeled for them by mommy” and who like to call “conspiracy nuts” names (sorry ..this is a pay back ..lol.)



Nikola Tesla & Free Energy technology ..discovered around 100 years ago

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=163736

Where are these idiots coming from ? I'm telling you all men are not created equal. Population control is the only option



It's like a religion. There is someone somewhere who has all the answers. And there is someone standing in the way of it all. Idealistic, simplistic bullshit! If you KNOW we can have ''free energy.'' Build a fucking prototype...if you can't build one you obviously do not KNOW shit!

 

[Kaneh]

Are you telling me that our world's forests are in worse shape today then 200 years ago?
LOL

When I was kid my country was full of beatyfull old forests. Now it's impossible to find real forest in my country. We have some ridiculously small patches, but 99.9% are fields that are growing trees. If you have been inside 1000 years old forest you know the difference.

Why is it so difficult to understand that we are in a point that mankind or this planet has never been before. You can ask any scientist about that. He doesn't have to work to UN or WWF. Or you can just open your eyes and look outside. The fact is that we are in bottleneck, we make it or not in next 50 years. It doesn't matter how you feel or how emotional you are. And people tend to get emotional when they're kids don't have place to live. We are using so much natural recources that we need two planets, and we only got one. That is simple enough for child to understand.

Grapeman, you don't have to be an idiot, even that you live in America! You have a choise, living in a land of free and all... LOL

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

http://www.unep-wcmc.org/protected_areas/pdf/Global Forest Protection.pdf

Not only are the world's forests under severe threat, but they lack necessary protection.

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[mriko]

If you KNOW we can have ''free energy.'' Build a fucking prototype...if you can't build one you obviously do not KNOW shit!

heard about Pantone's water engine, if not free at least heaps of energy could be saved with this system. http://www.geetfriends.net/netdocs/onnouscachetout_eng.pdf

We are using so much natural recources that we need two planets, and we only got one.

It's not about using, it's about wasting. Western society is a society of waste. and we waste every kind of thing, to such a point that we even have the dubious luxury of using waste & destruction for our own entertainment.
And i'm not even talking about the food ! Western societies grab most of the food stocks, and throw a large part of it to the trash ! Look at supermarket bins, always packed with food, which is often laced with bleach so no poor people can use it (it's sure better to trash food rather than giving it to the needy). Once I watched some broadcast on TV about food waste; Part of the doc was shot in Vienna, Austria, and at one point one is shown several trash-trucks unloading their huge bins. One could see TONS of... trashbags ? nay, PASTRIES ! tons & tons of pastries from the day, going right to destruction. Some energy might be made from the burning of it, but hell, it's everyday like that, and not only in Vienne, not only in Austria, but everywhere the Western way of life has put a firm hold, wastefull habits follow and what was precious once, goes right to the trash today. zillions of tons of food go to the bin everyday, this shouldn't happen, it's a real shame.

Another instance. Oil. Oil is crucial as a fuel, but do we need to make clothes with oil ??? tell me ! Do we need those polyesther and other acrylics which keeps you cold in winter and sweating in summertime ? Couldn't we replace all these oil-based clothes with natural ones such as linen, bamboo and of course hemp ?

Irie !

 

[groady-ho]

My oh my, never heard about Mountaintop Removal ? if you live in US & grow indoor, there are very high probablilities that you're actually smoking the appalachians mountains, valleys & forest.

Lush & green peaks & valleys are turned into sterile plateau, where almost nothing grows because the soil is dead, all the nutriments having been washed away through the human intervention.

no more wildlife and local people are left with a totally destroyed and sterile environment from which, in the past, they could get their sustenance from, but it's just gone, all gobbled by human greed.

http://ilovemountains.org/

Irie !

word, brotha..take a ride around west virginia sometime and look at the red creeks and flat mtn. tops caused from strip mining..
pretty sad site if you ask me..
i pity the fools that are so oblivious to their own surroundings..
anybody else here feel like they don't belong in this day and age?

 

[mriko]

word, brotha..take a ride around west virginia sometime and look at the red creeks and flat mtn. tops caused from strip mining..
pretty sad site if you ask me..

I'm on the other side of the Atlantic actually eheh... but the first time I saw and aerial view of some mining site on tv it took me a few seconds to catch up with what i was seeing, because that was simply unbelievable to me. But so real it is alas.

anybody else here feel like they don't belong in this day and age?

Some quantum jump went wrong at some point and me to end up in this alternate reality, must find a way back to my world !

Irie !

 

[bombadil.360]

Mordor and Isengard are spreading their territories fast...

along-side all their Orc-populations.

 

[grapeman]

Of course they are....clear cutting, pulp and paper and deforestation for massive feed crops just did not exist 200 years ago....


The Amazon and most rainforests were untouched 200 years ago...as were old growth forests in BC, Oregon, the entire PNW etc etc etc...

If you can honestly think and say that we are doing NO damage, and everything is hotsy-totsy, and that our forests are in better shape now than they were 200 years ago, you are living in a world of extreme illusion and fantasy, and I pity you for being so totally deluded and brainwashed by whoever told you the bullshit you spew.

Show me the acreage of todays forests as compared with the acreage of 200 years ago.

I only ask you to look it up for yourself so you can learn facts, just like your mom and dad used to tell you to.

You may not like clear cutting, but there are more trees planted today then 200 years ago.

Unless you take for fact the bs that is published by the un. but you could find out the truth, if you wanted to.

While you and I may not like the fact that 2nd tiered countries allow clear cutting in rain forests, the fact still remains that world wide deforestation is a hoax.

 

[grapeman]

http://www.unep-wcmc.org/protected_areas/pdf/Global Forest Protection.pdf

Not only are the world's forests under severe threat, but they lack necessary protection.

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sigh. If you read the map you posted (fig 3.....), it is only showing areas "inside" the phony WWF's protected region.

It states the fact that this is a incomplete map right on the map itself. WTF? You guys can't even get your facts straight when using bs from your bs sources.

 

[grapeman]

Well I grow 3 tons of coconut meat (copra) every 3 months and that's more than I can consume.....I also grow more bananas and papayas, tomatoes and aubergines (egg-plant) than I can eat......and I have a prawn hatchery where I can make millions of prawn fry to grow out in 9 hectares of fish-pan to maturity if I want.......so I can be self-sufficient if I want to.....

....so if the proverbial fecal matter does hit the oscillating fan ......then I might have half a chance to survive.......as long as I can protect the land....

After the shit hits the fan, you and I will rule the world.

But since you are already "El Presidente", the best I can hope for is "El vice Presidente" I suppose. Unless you don't have guns. I got plenty. big ones too.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

sigh. If you read the map you posted (fig 3.....), it is only showing areas "inside" the phony WWF's protected region.It states the fact that this is a incomplete map right on the map itself. WTF? You guys can't even get your facts straight when using bs from your bs sources.

Ecoregions are just designated regions of categorization & priority based on compiled data,
assessed on their level of threat & type of ecosystem etc.

The map is indeed on a global scale.



Here's a more detailed explanation as to why what you said was incorrect (also c/pd below): http://www.worldwildlife.org/science/ecoregions/item1847.html

Ecoregions
Biodiversity ignores national and other political boundaries, so a more relevant conservation planning unit is required - WWF addresses this need with ecoregions.


What is an Ecoregion?
An ecoregion is defined as a large area of land or water that contains a geographically distinct assemblage of natural communities that

(a) share a large majority of their species and ecological dynamics;
(b) share similar environmental conditions, and;
(c) interact ecologically in ways that are critical for their long-term persistence.
The Conservation Science Program has identified 825 terrestrial ecoregions across the globe, and a set of 426 freshwater ecoregions has just been completed. WWF has recently launched an analogous global framework of 229 coast and shelf marine ecoregions in collaboration with The Nature Conservancy.


Priority Ecoregions
WWF has assessed these ecoregions and identified the Global 200 -- the most biologically distinct terrestrial, freshwater, and marine ecoregions of the planet. This global assessment has been built in part through a series of more detailed regional assessments that the Conservation Science Program continues to undertake.


Ecoregion Conservation
Within these priority ecoregions, WWF pursues ecoregion conservation, a unique, broad-scale approach to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy that conserves the species, habitats, and ecological processes of the ecoregion.


Landscape (Priority Area) Conservation
The process of ecoregion conservation generally leads to a biodiversity vision. The vision generally identifies priority areas--often referred to as landscapes or seascapes. Once defined, the next important step is to develop cost-effective, spatially-explicit strategies that meet the ecological needs of wildlife and habitats while minimizing human-wildlife conflicts and maximizing benefits to resident populations. This step is often referred to as landscape conservation.

 

[genkisan]

Show me the acreage of todays forests as compared with the acreage of 200 years ago.

I only ask you to look it up for yourself so you can learn facts, just like your mom and dad used to tell you to.

You may not like clear cutting, but there are more trees planted today then 200 years ago.

Unless you take for fact the bs that is published by the un. but you could find out the truth, if you wanted to.

While you and I may not like the fact that 2nd tiered countries allow clear cutting in rain forests, the fact still remains that world wide deforestation is a hoax.

Tree planting is a load of horseshit....there is no biodiversity, and the people planting the trees are not planting replacement forests of the same quality, diversity or even species.....they are planting uniform, commercial forests whose only purpose is to be harvested again in a few decades.....all so some bloated fucking choadbag can continue to rake in quarterly profits. This does not replace what they have destroyed, nor the species they are wiping out.

It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hemp paper is way cleaner, more efficient, less polluting and better in general....but do they stop cutting trees and convert to hemp....NOOOOOOOO.....that would interfere with those precious quartely profits. So they same evil fuckers who made hemp (and pot) illegal so they could exploit their forests and make paper KEEP it illegal and show no interest in changing what they established....cuz they continue to make money.
And everyone knows that profit and the capatilist way is just SOOO much more important than keeping a biological heritage for our children.


And the situation is 1000 times worse in the Third World....precious rain forests are being burned and bulldozed at an incredible rate.....mostly to feed the First World's hunger for feed for the meat industry...remember, 60% of usable, arable land is used to produce food that is fed to livestock. Just because it is not happening in the US and Europe does not mean it is not their fault....the demand for that rain forest deforestation and the reasons behind it come from the First World and economic pressure from same.


You choose to see things through a very very narrow and selective definition, grapeman....one that justifies your pontificating attitude and your condescending, insulting manner of posting to people....how mature.

I have done huge amounts of reading on the matter...and more importantly I have talked to people who live in places that have been totally fucking raped by the Corpo-Nazis.

What you claim, "that there is no problem" is really and truly a load of rancid pigshit, and people like you love to stick to that line because to justifies their own greed, gluttony and desire to maintain the exploitative, malignant status quo.

If you can choose to ignore that fact that we are driving our SUV's down the superhighway to extinction, Big MAcs in hand and proud of it, you are a delusional denier of basic reality, and I feel sorry for you and any offspring you may ever have, who you are dooming to inheriting a barren, poisoned planet, raped and ruined so their ancestors could eat steaks and play with their cell phones.

You live in a fantasy land, grapeman.......100%.

Hope you enjoy it.

I personally believe that the main reason humans are teetering on the brink of extinction right now is because of one basic factor: our economic paradigm of profit-mongering, exploitation and resource hoarding.


We live by a philosophy that by it's very nature denies the unique non-entropic quality that defines all living things.

Life is the only thing in the known universe that works against entropy (other than gravity)....for anything alive to be true to it's nature, it must live/behave/interact in a non-entropic way.....putting more into the syatem than it takes out.

Our entire modus of life for the past 5000-8000 years (since mono-culture farming and the advent of cities) has been based on an exploitative, entropic way of treating our home, each other and all the living things that share this planet.......we see everything as something we can exploit for our own use...not a fellow piece of this amazing machine of life we call planet Earth.


I have been thinking about these kinds of issues since I was 6, and I really can't see any long term future for human beings in general until our present malignant, exploitative paradigm is replaced by a much more holistic and non-entropic one based on long term survival and building on the systems we depend on....not destroying them for the sake of next quarters profts.

Unfortunately, the only way I see that paradigm changing is as the result of a catastrophic, near total annihilation of our species (and soon) in a way that is UNDENIABLY ALL OUR FAULT. That way maybe the survivors will teach their kids to live by a different paradigm, and the entropic, exploitative one we have now will become taboo and untolerated.

I see a very extreme Dark Ages coming for humans in the next hundred years or so......whether we live thru it as a species depends totally on changing the way we see life, happiness and our reasons for being here.

We are not here to make lots of money, or build the biggest house, or exploit our planet/neighbours/animals/children/resources.....we are here to be alive, breathe clean air, enjoy the wonders of this planet and continue the species....life is not a question or mystery to be answered...it is an experience to be lived.

And if we do not learn that, and start thinking about and basing our actions on real long term survival (2000-5000 years in the future), we are dooming future generations to living in an increasingly hellish world, until the planet wipes us off like the malignant growth we have become and continues along it's merry way.

 

[bombadil.360]

You may not like clear cutting, but there are more trees planted today then 200 years ago.

there may be more trees planted today than 200 years ago;
but those trees planted today for wood or paper or palm oil, are not the same forests as 200 years ago in most cases.

in a modern-day tree plantation for wood/paper/palm oil, there is not enough bio-diversity to sustain all the life that the original bio-diverse forests used to sustain; this also includes the health of fresh water, and soil health, etc...




edit: well, genki beat me to it...

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

Genki and bomb make great points.

I thought this was interesting

More

 

[hippie_lettuce]

Here's some good reading
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/269/5222/347
http://www.jstor.org/stable/2396937

 

[mriko]

Show me the acreage of todays forests as compared with the acreage of 200 years ago.

I only ask you to look it up for yourself so you can learn facts, just like your mom and dad used to tell you to.

You may not like clear cutting, but there are more trees planted today then 200 years ago.

Unless you take for fact the bs that is published by the un. but you could find out the truth, if you wanted to.

While you and I may not like the fact that 2nd tiered countries allow clear cutting in rain forests, the fact still remains that world wide deforestation is a hoax.

Planted trees don't mean forest. China is planting heaps & heaps of trees, which helps statistically to fight against deforestation. But replanted areas are most of the time, if not always, replanted as monoculture. Instead of dozens of species supporting a whole ecosystem, you find only one tree species, supporting no ecosystem. More trees planted doesn't mean more forest.

Irie !

 

[grapeman]

This is laughable, then it is sad. As the supreme species on the planet, am I not suppose to use the available resources?

This isn't Avatar, this is real life. while you guys are lighting a joint and talking in the clouds about bio-diversity, China is buying or contracting for the resources they need now and in the future.

See, they don't care about the worm that is going extinct in some off the beaten path and frankly, I don't either.

You guys have no idea what your ideas will result in. Billions will starve and you think it a better system to protect the worm.

And because you read a book, will not automatically enable you to grow your own food unless someone decides which 1/2 of the world's population dies so you can work 8 hours a day, back breaking work, on some shitty farm somewhere just to eat potato soup 30 days a month.

You have no idea how good you all have it in life and if left to design your utopia, I, or someone like me, will have the responsibility to bury your carcasses.
Pathetic.

 

[genkisan]

This is laughable, then it is sad. As the supreme species on the planet, am I not suppose to use the available resources?

This isn't Avatar, this is real life. while you guys are lighting a joint and talking in the clouds about bio-diversity, China is buying or contracting for the resources they need now and in the future.

See, they don't care about the worm that is going extinct in some off the beaten path and frankly, I don't either.

You guys have no idea what your ideas will result in. Billions will starve and you think it a better system to protect the worm.

And because you read a book, will not automatically enable you to grow your own food unless someone decides which 1/2 of the world's population dies so you can work 8 hours a day, back breaking work, on some shitty farm somewhere just to eat potato soup 30 days a month.

You have no idea how good you all have it in life and if left to design your utopia, I, or someone like me, will have the responsibility to bury your carcasses.
Pathetic.

It's ok, grapeman...you can just strap those blinders on and keep it up.....justifying your malignant, gluttonous lifestyle....after all, you don't know anything else, do ya?

It's not your fault...you were born deserving to rape and exploit the planet raw.....that's what good capitalists do, right? it's your birthright, ain't it? After all...you are THE SUPREME SPECIES on this planet....what with yer groovy thumbs and larynx...and that obviously gives you the right to be a parasite, draining every resource you can dry and barren, exterminating tens of thousands of species to feed your greed....so you can be "supreme".......FEH!


You and your kind are incapable of anything other than malignancy.....that's the way you have been trained by your corporate masters.......we understand......it's not your fault .....it's ok.....just keep on ranting yer bullshit....




PS: a little side comment on yer load of horseshit posted above...
Subsistence farming, if done on a proper permaculture model, does not have to take more than 14-20 hours a week to maintain a plot that can support 2-4 people. And before you cry bullshit, let me tell you that I know people who are doing this ask we speak....so bugger off with yer 8 hours a day fer some potato soup.

 

[Red Fang]

Well I grow 3 tons of coconut meat (copra) every 3 months and that's more than I can consume.....I also grow more bananas and papayas, tomatoes and aubergines (egg-plant) than I can eat......and I have a prawn hatchery where I can make millions of prawn fry to grow out in 9 hectares of fish-pan to maturity if I want.......so I can be self-sufficient if I want to.....

....so if the proverbial fecal matter does hit the oscillating fan ......then I might have half a chance to survive.......as long as I can protect the land....

sounds like you have a great plan. I would like to start a community if I were in your place, everyone would live together in peace and share the labor and benefits, and be free of what goes on in the outside world. The benefits would be numerous and obvious. If the community generated its own electricity and had its own "government", it could free people from spies.

 

[Stoned Crow]

"The use of the planet's resources is no longer sustainable.
A recent study by WWF, the Zoological Society of London and the Global Footprint Network revealed that humans now use in excess of 25% of the productive capacity of the biosphere and that two planet Earths will be needed to support our projected demand."

Some excerpts:

• 77% of us are in 'ecological debt'

• "...people are turning resources into waste faster than nature can turn waste back into resources."

• "Since the late 1980s, we have been in overshoot - the Ecological Footprint has exceeded the Earth’s biocapacity - by about 25%."

• "The Living Planet Index measures trends in the Earth’s biological diversity
  Since 1970 the index has fallen by about 30%.
  This global trend suggests that we are degrading natural ecosystems at a rate unprecedented in human history."

http://www.panda.org/about_our_earth/all_publications/living_planet_report/lpr_2008/
Here's the actual report, pdf form, 4.4 mb http://assets.panda.org/downloads/living_planet_report_2008.pdf

This is sad. What are we gonna do about this.

It'd be a helluva lot more informative if you showed me the "ecological debt" graph of mars...SC