seeds,clones or sexed plants discussion

[sativa92]

What do you guys prefer and why!!!

growing plants started from seed!!!
when growing from seed the plants seem to grow with more vigor!! you have a variety to pick the best phenos to keep as a mother or to breed with!! you can start them outside in a hotbox
disadvantages....
of course constantly checking youre patch for males if youre wanting sinse.. and leaving trails and paths for thiefs and leo!!

clones..... they are all female!!! you dont have wasted holes from pulling males.they are taken from youre favorite mother..
disadvantage... they dont seem to grow as fast as the same strain from seed..

sexed plants....these are plants started from seed then sexed indoors under lights then reverted back to veg to be put outdoors... they have the same advantages as clones because they are female but seem to grow a little better than a clone because they are basicly still a seed plant.
disadvantages...growth can sometimes be stunted from fluctuating light regimans!!!!!

so what do you guys/gals prefer!!!

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

My opinion

Seed grown - My favorite i guess has to be seed grown plants. That is the only method of growing that will give you a truly special plant, but then i like femmed seeds and while fems are much easier for the outdoor grower, finding that special mother is a little more difficult. I agree with you that seed grown plants generally express faster more vigorous growth than a clone and may finish sooner

Clones- I like clones because not only can they gaurantee sex but they can also gaurantee quality. If you like a particular pheno of a strain, this is the only course available to get a quantity of smoke from that pheno. I have a blueberry mom and my only hope of getting a years worth of wonderful fruity happiness is to clone her.

Treated properly, clone growth should equal seed growth. If clone roots are allowed to develop too much during the cloning process before being transplanted gaurantees stunted growth in the resulting plant.

Clones need 2 weeks minimum from the time they are first transferred to soil before they are transplanted outdoors. Transplanting clones before the roots have taken well into soil causes delayed, smaller growth.

Sexed plants-... are a disasterous occurance to any grow. A plant which has had the lights cut back in an effort to force sexual expression and then has the lighting increased again once sex has been established, will in every circumstance cause a delay in flowering of the plant by at least a couple of weeks. To tell the plant to flower and then tell it not to flower is the recipe for late october finishes.

The only process that can be used to determine sex and not delay final maturation is to start seeds on 14 hours and within 25-30 days a preflower will develop. After the preflower is expressed, lights should be increased to 15. 5 which will spur the plant to continue to veg instead of kicking it in and out of flower. The 15.5 will align closely enough with outdoor daylength that no lighting/transplant shock will occur at time of transplant.

 

[sativa92]

Ahh i always forget about femmed seeds!! i have never tried them yet!!! thanks D.s!!

 

[hamstring]

SEEDS

Seeds are the only way a non-med state guerrilla can grow if he does not want a grow in his place of residence. You can transport seeds to your grow very easily and its your choice how you decide to start them. Seeds are also the only way a guerrilla can keep growing every year with out depending on a breeder. Nothing against breeders I buy seeds every year but I also pollinate every year just in case.

Scenario--You just spent $350.00 on seeds and they don’t germ, get hit by a flood, ripped etc what’s next. If you have some set back from last season you are golden.

Seeds are the only way to go for a non-Med state guerrilla and I believe there are on 14 Med states so do the math, seeds baby!!!!
PEACE

 

[vod]

fem seeds and late season clones from outdoor mothers.

no males cuts a lot of visits to spots. makes planing easier etc. etc.
for urban or distant locations i prefer clones because of the uniformity. good thing for spots where you go into only twice in the season. also for minis it would take a lot of seeds, whilst i can take a lot of clones from the selected outdoor plants in june and save the seeds for other purposes.
reg seeds only for experimenting and breeding/fems production. lot of extra work.
sexed plants can work but for me most of the times it didn't. also not possible without an indoor setup, that I'd rather skip for security reasons.

 

[MeanBean]

I have been thinking about this myself. My question is if I grew a mother plant from a feminized seed and got herms, could I buy the regular seed for that strain and possible reduce this factor?

Also when I grew from seed I got Way tighter nodes. my next run I am going to do a run with "Dp Oasis" by seed. last time I grew that strain from seed is the last time I saw insane node growth. Since then I have been using clones and the seem to be generallyer stemmeyer...

 

[littlebud]

clones man i have one that is over 7 years old lol...i love seeds too because of the vigor you can get and variety..you can do well even without skill with seeds..but i love cuts personnaly..because i learn them and dial them in and know exactly what the yield will be per plant..find the keepers and cull the rest is what i do..cloning is a art in itself and everyone should master it in my humble opinion

 

[littlebud]

i had sd ibl throw bannanas on me from seed..but the next run of cuts did not..so i believe if you would of dialed in the feeding and run her a couple of times she wont reverse on you..i have done this many times with many plants..plants will be stressed in your inviroment untill they adapt or you baby them and thier special needs..you know any plant will revers under stress..feminized is more prown to stress because they are inferiour seeds..but you can grow some good herb but i sure as hell wouldnt breed with feminized seeds unless you want inferior babys..just my opinion...peace

I have been thinking about this myself. My question is if I grew a mother plant from a feminized seed and got herms, could I buy the regular seed for that strain and possible reduce this factor?

Also when I grew from seed I got Way tighter nodes. my next run I am going to do a run with "Dp Oasis" by seed. last time I grew that strain from seed is the last time I saw insane node growth. Since then I have been using clones and the seem to be generallyer stemmeyer...

 

[littlebud]

lol and this is outdoor growing(didnt catch that..but most still applys)..so for sure go with the seeds

 

[OrganicMonkey]

Can't beat the selection from seeds, some clones do better than others. I've had a group of clones turn into single blade leafs, not at all a desirable exhibition. Seed plants take awhile to mature, their vegetative state is slow to begin.

It's good to start some by seed and start some by clone, but as far as outdoor a clone works best. Veg for 7 weeks, take some cuts, throw the mom's into flower while the clones are rooting. If a mom fails to impress or shows other hazards, then other clones can fill her outdoor space. The work is to valuable outdoors, it's just a lot of work to prepare a site.

If there was some way to preserve a tissue culture for years and years, in a dormant state. Like seeds but a clone, that would be pretty nifty, just not sure if ideal. The one fact that will always exist, is that unless your looking for pollen or an excellent mom for clones and/or seed production; then the males are a serious waste of space, time and investment.

That is why it's good to have some clones, to throw into a SOG encase some males are burdening the exact use of indoor space.

 

[littlebud]

one leaf meens it was not fully veging...when a plant is trying to reveg it throws single bladed leafs and spinner leafs after 1 week some 2 under 24hrs light it will throw regular leafs again unless it is a rudulias(low rider)..i have a clone that yields and has the same vigor she had 7 years ago..if you dont have dialed in veg area then seeds is the only option

 

[Dr Dog]

Even though I love the anticipation factor with naturally occurring seeds, I have to say clones, you are saving like 3 weeks in time

 

[NickMode]

fem seeds and late season clones from outdoor mothers.

no males cuts a lot of visits to spots. makes planing easier etc. etc.
for urban locations i prefer clones because of the uniformity. good thing for spots where you go into only twice in the season. also for minis it would take a lot of seeds, whilst i can take a lot of clones from the selected outdoor plants in june and save the seeds for other purposes.
reg seeds only for experimenting and breeding/fems production. lot of extra work.
sexed plants can work but for me most of the times it didn't. also not possible without an indoor setup, that I'd rather skip for security reasons.

what is your outdoor cloning method?

 

[sativa92]

thanks everyone! k++ to all!!!

yeah i definately think theres benefit with going with both seeds and clones,but with clones that means growing indoors over the winter,and if in a non med state its harder to do.

 

[theJointedOne]

what is your outdoor cloning method?

nickmode- Heres what I do to clone outside. It works house on land or not. Simple let your plants get large enough to clone off of, early july or so.

Get a bunch of trays with domes and get the rapid rooter plug trays, those work best imo. They come pre-moist and little spritz of water helps too.

Take a glass of water and fill it with as many cuts as you can, as many glasses as you can fill up. Carefully take cuts with a clean razor and cut at an angle

Take the cuts back to your trays. One by one dip in clone solution of choosing and place in plugs. Mix 1 tblspoon of vit b1 per gallon of water and use this to fill trays to water line.

cover with domes and small open vent on dome, just a crack

You can bring them inside but i prefer to put the trays in the parts of the area that get partial shade all day like under a think tree or bush shadow or even against the north side of your house.

Watch water level daily and add water mx as needed.

As soon as you see ANY root ona plug, simpy transplant to chosen medium and enjoy!

 

[hamstring]

nickmode- Heres what I do to clone outside. It works house on land or not. Simple let your plants get large enough to clone off of, early july or so.

Get a bunch of trays with domes and get the rapid rooter plug trays, those work best imo. They come pre-moist and little spritz of water helps too.

Take a glass of water and fill it with as many cuts as you can, as many glasses as you can fill up. Carefully take cuts with a clean razor and cut at an angle

Take the cuts back to your trays. One by one dip in clone solution of choosing and place in plugs. Mix 1 tblspoon of vit b1 per gallon of water and use this to fill trays to water line.

cover with domes and small open vent on dome, just a crack

You can bring them inside but i prefer to put the trays in the parts of the area that get partial shade all day like under a think tree or bush shadow or even against the north side of your house.

Watch water level daily and add water mx as needed.

As soon as you see ANY root ona plug, simpy transplant to chosen medium and enjoy!

Very interesting, so you could wait until preflowers show and clone outdoors for late season minis?

It sounds kind of ify though how often do you check on them outdoors?

Can you leave them a week or more or do you have to mist each day? Can you really do this guerrilla style?

PEACE

 

[theJointedOne]

hi

yes just wait to see males and then clone, once you see roots transplant.

as far as guerrilla, i know people personally that do this but I dont. Do a search on walmart clone machine. same concept works outside great but it has to be in a shaded ir partly shaded area all day

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

I do what Vod and thejointedone does with a twist. I clone outdoors on site.

I have 4 plants started right now. I will transplant the four, 2' plants outdoors the last week of April. By late may, i can start taking good sized cuttings.

I bury a 64 quart clear plastic tote nearly even with the soil surface in a shady area around the grow. My box will hold 36 12 oz cups filled with a mixture of 3-1 perlite/soil. I pour a 1/2" of water in the bottom of the box. This allow wicking over time for the perlite filled cups. I take my cuttings, dip them in rootone, put them in the purlite cups, water and then put the plastic top on the storage tote. DRILL 4 1/8" weep holes in the lid so that the box can breath. 21-30 days later, transplant.

 

[hamstring]

DS & Jointed one

WOW!! This is very exciting to me with many possibilities. I may try this season with my GHS WW. This would be a way to pick the indica pheno take some cuttings and do some WW minis.

I have heard of this but really never thought it was doable for a guerrilla grow. I appreciate the "real life" experience. In my mind this changes a lot of things for a guerrilla grower because before growing 20 plants /50% male. Now down to 10 females and you are looking for that 1 or 2 phenos that are the “golden bud” so you could end up with 4 out of 20 plants with the strain characteristics you were looking for.

This could be a great way to not only increase female/male ratio but more importantly in my mind if you know what pheno you are looking for in a particular strain you could mirror what indoor growers are doing with pheno selection.

In my mind much like mastering germinating outdoors pheno selection via guerrilla cloning (I like that term I want to patent “Guerrilla Cloning”) is a game changer.
PEACE

 

[stratmandu]

...I bury a 64 quart clear plastic tote nearly even with the soil surface in a shady area around the grow. My box will hold 36 12 oz cups filled with a mixture of 3-1 perlite/soil. I pour a 1/2" of water in the bottom of the box. This allow wicking over time for the perlite filled cups. I take my cuttings, dip them in rootone, put them in the purlite cups, water and then put the plastic top on the storage tote. DRILL 4 1/8" weep holes in the lid so that the box can breath. 21-30 days later, transplant.

VERY NICE. Just what I need!