Head scratching time...wth!

[mcmawg]

Ok, maybe hep a bro out here, folks; I've been hoping I wouldn't have to use the infirmary, but here I be, cap-in-hand...
1st grow, with all it's trials and tribs. Hefty learning curve.
6 weeks in, and wondering wtf ain't right, cuz it's SOMEthing!
(Current pics in my album)
The gurlz were growing, slowly; hit a couple snags, figured I fixed 'em along the way.
They appear to be stunting, as they haven't been reaching up over the last week or so; yellowing/spotting leaves...

Where to head?
Complete drain and refill? Specific nute adds?
I'm trying to figure how much longer in veg before I flip; I want/need more bud sites, but the gurlz have to reach up more than they are.

HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics/Coco/Soiless/​

How long has this problem been going on? Appx 2 wks
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) RDWC, 6 buckets, ~30-35 gal
What STRAIN are you growing? Master Kush (2), OG Kush, Sour Diesel, SSH, Purple Train Wreck
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) All clones
What is the age of your plants? ~6 wks in the buckets
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) ~6 wks
How tall are the plants? 1.5-2 ft.
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Late (?) veg
What Technique are you using? Going for ScrGrn, some lst; did a main stem pinch 5 days ago on 4 of 6.
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Rockwool clones, hydroton nets
What is the Water temperature? 65-70 f
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Off white, no apparent slime?
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) CNS 17
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Shooting for 15-20 ml/gal
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) When ph drops; has varied due to system probs (water leaks, water over-fill, light burn...sheesh)
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) When needed (?)
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) Mix in ½ gal container, then mix in controller. Vigorous stirring to disperse nutes in solution.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Hanna H198129
What is the pH of the "Tank"? 17 Mar: 5.75
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Pretty sure
When was your last watering?
What is your water temps? 65-70 f
When was your last feeding change? (ie. Grow-bloom-micro-additional) 8 Mar: Added 180 ml CNS and 20 ml pH down
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? No draining, as yet. Just going with water add back when needed.
What size bulb are you using? 1000 w MH; diy bat wing reflector
What is the distance to the canopy? 2.5-4 ft.
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? Not known
What is the canopy temperature? ~75-80 f
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) unsure
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) unsure, but constant
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? 2 6” intake ports, 1 in each corner of room, ducted to near floor level; 1 diy fan scrubber: large carpet drying blower config'ed to a duct box; 2 22” square flat filters with appx ½” carbon in each, exhaust opening opposite wall at ceiling level. Constantly on at low fan speed.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Small 6” fan has been blowing at plant level, moved fan higher to blow just under light to diffuse heat last night.
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Hard
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Tap Mineral Water? Tap
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? Yes, 4 of 6 gently pinched and bent 12 Mar
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest's? No pests​

Addtl data:
Room size: 7x7x7
8 Mar: BEFORE 180 ml CNS and 20 ml pH down add:
Temp: 66; ppm: 545; pH: 6.31 uS: 1088

8 Mar: AFTER adds and 1 hour wait to measure:
Temp: 67: ppm: 955; pH: 4.6 (yikes!); uS: 1885

12 Mar: Temp: 65; ppm: 890; pH: 5.75; uS: 1781

17 Mar: Temp: 70.5; ppm: 920; ph: 5.75; uS: 1834

Vet's opinions welcomed; thanks for the read and thanks for the assistance!

mcmawg

 

[kerlito]

Any pic around ?

 

[mcmawg]

Thanks, k!
Pics in my album section; I'm tryin' to fig out how to put them in the thread.

 

[mcmawg]

OP won't take pic edits; tryin' a new post to see if the pics fit on here...this post won't take more than 4 images; the rest are in my "1st grow" album.

 

[Kcar]

Well, the PM isn't helping things. Probably means High RH and low temps during
lights out. What is your lighting regimen?

 

[mcmawg]

Thanks, kcar!
Concrete basement corner, room ~90% sealed.
Intake drawn through screened foundation vent at ext ground level and exhausted out an opposite foundation vent.
18/6, 1000 mh, appx 2-2.5 ft above the gurlz; turns on @ 7PM for 18 on.
Sacramento area weather: mid 40's to low 50's @ night; mid 50's to around 70 days recently.
I'll see if I can get an RH meter to check it out.

 

[Snype]

Everything so far that I read seems pretty good to me. What you got for airstones in the bucket? What pump you got with how many GPH per bucket?

 

[Snype]

Oh I see now! Your crazy pH swings killed you.

 

[Snype]

Heres what you have to do for the future but because you were in the 4's on the pH it might be too late but you'll know in a few days. First you have to figure out what is causing the swing in the first place and I have a lot of experience on this matter. I can take you through the steps but I might need some additional info. Let me smoke a joint and I'll be back.

 

[Snype]

I just need to know these questions first including the questions above in post #7.

1. You have an additional rez linked up to the buckets or are the bucket's recirculating themselves all together?

2. Were they ever in a different system during Veg and then you transferred them to DWC? Wondering if you went from Ebb and Flow in early VEG to RDWC later

3. You seem like you have detailed pH records now which is great of you to do! But do you have any records from before that. If you don't then I have to assume that you had an additional pH swing before and when you saw it, then you started your records?

 

[mcmawg]

Hehehe...fired up me pipe while answering, snype!
From 23 Feb to 8 Mar, ppm went from 585 to 545; pH from 6.21 to 6.31; uS from 1165 to 1088.
I figured I'd starved em a bit, and needed to punch up the ppm's to arnd 750.
I over added nutes and pH down on 8 Mar.
Added 180 ml of nutes and 20 ml pH down.
After an hour of waiting: pH: 4.6; ppm: 955; uS: 1885 YIKES!!!! TOO big a swing!
Tossed in 2 more gallons of tap water to try and thin it out a bit...
12 Mar: pH: 5.75; ppm: 890; uS: 1781
17 Mar: pH: 5.75; ppm: 920; uS: 1834.

 

[mcmawg]

1 50 gal res, hooked to controller (18 gal) via float valve; submersible pump (~350 gph) in controller; 4" round (flat) airstones in each bucket; ECO 8 air pump.
RDWC from the get-go, no swapping. Clones took about a week to settle in, started em off on plain tap water, 5 days in added appx 175 ml CNS 17 to ~35 gal sys.
I picked up the Hanna pen 5 Feb and have numbers since then.

 

[Snype]

First I'd like to say for this being your first grow and with the records that you are keeping, you have a bright future to look forward to. People need to be more like you when they grow and take this more seriously.

Just bare with me for a few while I get this sorted out. I have to go check my Veg room for 10 minutes.

 

[mcmawg]

LMAO!!!
"Paging Dr. Snype! Paging Dr. Snype! ICMag Infirmary...STAT!!!"
Should we refer to you as "DOD...Doctor on Deck"?

Chuckling now...we new un's do appreciate your speedy assistance; THANKS!

I like to get rolling on stuff after I look around at what the experienced, consistent producers of the field do and how they get it done.
Once I roll, I like to keep logs so I can hone my skills in the area and continue...or not...
Just haven't posted up my grow log here; was trying to get through the first grow "wall of fire" unscathed with pounds under my belt outa six buckets.
6 weeks in and it's 'ahhhh well, grasshoppa...you be larnin' now, aincha???' lmao

 

[Snype]

So I'm trying to understand something but not what happened on March 8th. You seem to have no swings before that. You said it went from 6.2 - 6.3. Now is that because you adjust the pH every day or every so often? I ask this because if you have to pH more than once per cycle, I need to know which way the swing usually goes before March 8th (after you pH for the first time).

 

[Snype]

I'm still waiting for questions to be answered and I have to go in a specific order to get through this with you before I give you my advise. I have more to ask but I'll wait until you come back.

 

[mcmawg]

Ok; clones in the buckets 31 Jan.
5 Feb: I pick up the Hanna pen.
5 days plain tap water: pH: 7.8
Added ~175 ml CNS 17.
8 Feb:
pH: 7.3; ppm: 546
Added 10 ml pH down. 2 hour wait: pH: 6.65; ppm: 555
14 Feb:
Had a water leak for a couple days (longer story); water now 5" below nets!
Temp steady @ 67 degrees.
pH: 7.1; ppm: 420 (honest!); uS: 840
Added tap water to bring water level to ~1/2" below nets.
Added 180 ml CNS 17.
1 hour wait: pH: 6.3; ppm: 650; uS: 1282
17/18 Feb:
Temp: 68; pH: 585; ppm: 590; uS: 1180
23 Feb:
T: 65.4; pH: 6.21; ppm: 585; uS: 1165
3 Mar:
Crap! Water too high!!! Float valve gasket got knocked around and let the res drain into the controller/buckets. 1/2" below bucket rims!!!! AUGGHHHH!
Pulled ~7 gallons out of buckets/controller. Water now 2" below nets.
T: 65.5; pH: 6.53; ppm: 540; uS: 1125
8 Mar:
T: 66; pH: 6.55; ppm: 545; uS: 1095
I stuff my gurlz with another 180 ml of CNS and top it with a dessert of 20 ml pH down...
Wait an hour:
T: 67; pH: 4.6; ppm: 955; uS: 1885
Nice work, dad!!!! Feel yer gulrz too much too soon and wonder why they stunt out...c'mon ladies...PLEEEZ don't stamp yer feets!!!
9 Mar:
T: 65.5; pH: 5.2; ppm: 890; uS: 1770
12 Mar:
T: 65; pH: 5.75; ppm: 890; uS: 1781
17 Mar:
T: 70.5 (?); pH: 5.75; ppm: 920 (?); uS: 1834
*** (?)= dunno how or why the diff from 12 Mar.

 

[Snype]

Alright I had to get some food so sorry for the wait. I'm going to give you a quick fix for you now and then I'm going to go in more detail when I finish up my work, which will take me a few hours, but I assure that that I'm going to get you through this and get you on your way.

If I am wrong with what I'm about to say, please correct me (in terms of your current pH swing). From the way that I read things, your pH gets higher as time goes on. If this is correct, for now, keep your PPM level at no more than 750 until I go into more details later. Lockout's in hydro start coming at 5.7 and below. You can go a little below that on a swing but only for a very short amount of time. So, if your pH is rising, set it to 6.0 for now and let it swing back down to 5.4 and then pH it back up to 6.0. If your pH is doing the opposite, then set it for 5.4 and let it rise to 6.0 and then pH it back down to 5.4. When you do this, I need to know how long the swing took to get to the end of it before you had to pH.

 

[mcmawg]

Thanks for the help, Snype!
No great rush, at the moment.
Appears I swung too hard on 8 Mar and locked out a heavy dose of nutes.
Double whammy!
One should not be so baked that one has difficulty with math conversions when tending one's gulrz.
Could've got by with 90 ml nutes; and MAYBE 10 ml pH down, if any at all...
I don't have access to the grow space until tomorrow am; I'll measure the juice, see where we stand and report back in.
Hey, what's another week or two in veg gonna do, anyway?
They can only get bigger, as long as they don't choke or starve to death!
I'm learning...the hard way, in some instances; learning just the same.

 

[Snype]

Good point mc! I have to tell you that I have a long drive tomorrow so maybe I'll be able to come on here before that or after but have a great night!