One plant out of 12 is suddenly doing this

[fishwater]

One out of 12 yesterday suddenly started getting yellow spots then today the spots are turning brown. Started on upper middle part of plant. The first 3 pictures are from today, the last one is yesterday.











How long has this problem been going on? Two days
What STRAIN are you growing? White Widow
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Seed
What is the age of your plants? 4 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 2 days, soon as I seen the spots I transplanted
How Tall are the plants? 12 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 gallon
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) LC#2 with ffof Mixed to a "T"
What Nutrient's are you using?1/2 cup each Bone, Blood, Kelp meal, 1/2 cup greensand, 1 cup dolomitic lime mixed into soil
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* 1 tbls mollases to gallon of well water
How often are you feeding? water as needed by weight
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? n/a
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) n/a
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 7.2 ph in original container of LC mix. I transplanted into same mix EXCEPT I cut the Dolomitic lime down to 1/2 cup, which when run off was tested using r/o water it came out at 6.8 ph
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? $125 hanna meter
How often are you watering? as needed by weight
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? Not feeding, except for molasses, every watering
What size bulb are you using? 600w MH crossover bulb 24/7
What is the distance to the canopy? 18 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 25-40 %
What is the canopy temperature? 78-82 F
What is the Day/Night Temp? same
What is the current Air Flow? passive, door open to room 24/7
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Light is ventilated out of room
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? oscillating fan runs 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off, just brushing the tops of plants
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? Drys out before watering.. weight test
Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard.. 9ph 155 ppm
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water ? Well water
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's? Had fungus gnats, mixed a little bit of crushed mosquito dunks into soil, have hardly any bugs now. Also hung a No Pest Strip last week

I know it looks like ph issue, but that should start from bottom of plant, shouldnt it? This all started in the middle of plant and is now working its way up.

None of the other plants are showing any sign of this.

I have some Earth Juice Micro Blast nutes, maybe I should give it a light shot...... If its not ph.. I know the ph is was a little high, but when I add molasses to the 9ph well water, the ph goes down to 6 or so and I water with that everytime.

Thanks for the input... it is allways appreciated.

Fishwater

 

[bombadil.360]

what are 'mosquito dunks' ? are they safe to add to the soil? are the toxic for the roots?

molasses every watering in a 3 gallon pot of soil for 4 week old plants seems like over-kill to me...

you can always lower pH using used coffee grounds in the proper ratio.

too much sugars in the soil can end up fermenting...

 

[Snype]

Looks like a Calcium lockout to me. Calcium locks out at 6.4 and below and you're ging them 6.0 with the Molassas. I'm a little confused are you using well water or RO water? You're going with too much Molassas if they get it every watering and when you add it you shoud pH it to 6.6 - 6.8. We understand you water as needed by weight but how often is that?

 

[fishwater]

Watering with well water... The reason I use the molasses is to lower the ph. When I water with the molasses water which has ph 6 or so, the runoff is from 6.6-6.8.
At the very beginning, I was using food grade citric acid in the water, but I found that after a few days of sitting, the ph would rise again. It doesnt seem to do that with the molasses. It is blackstrap molasses, so is very low in sugars... compared to off the shelf anyway.
I always let it get pretty dry before watering again so no danger of fermenting, but yes everywatering is a little overkill, but just as a ph balance. The molasses is basically feed for the micro organisms, not a plant nutrient.

It is an organic grow, and some people here have said that store bought ph down will harm the beneficial bacteria so I dont want to use it.

The used coffee grounds I have tested have a ph of 7.. probably cuz the coffee is made with the 9ph well water. I need something a little lower.. maybe some unused coffee??

Mosquito dunks are simply a bacteria that attacks mosquito type larve, as well as fungus gnat larvae. They are harmless to roots, etc.

Looks like calcium deficiency to me too. But, with the lime, and the 155ppm well water, it is hard to beleive it could be deficient. Locked out, yes.. but with runoff ph in the ranges it is I find it hard to beleive.

In theory, organic growers dont need to worry about ph. But, those lucky ones that dont have to worry arent stuck using 9ph well water either.

Thanks for responces, keep them coming in. I need to get this figured out in case the others start it....

Fishwater

 

[Snype]

Get rid of the well water and use bottled water instead but I still don't think you should be using that much Molassas. Too much of anything isn't good. I would still bring your pH up too. I understand what you mean about using Molassas to pH your water but if you get better water then it will only take like a tsp instead of a TB to pH it. Your problems aren't that bad. Happy growing!

 

[fishwater]

Snype,
Appreciate your input. If I bring the ph up anymore, my runoff comes up too. I water about every 4-5 days, with just enough to get some runoff, usually about a third of a gallon.
I agree, too much of anything isnt good, but, I don't really think that a tbls of molasses is too much. I have read on here someplace where some use 2 tbls every feeding. But, you cant beleive everything you read either.
I wouldnt mind using bottled water, but have you ever tried to ph bottled r/o water? You can breathe on it and the ph changes, thats why I have stuck to the well water. I could start hauling water from river, which has 8.3ph, but its quite a haul.

At any rate, I dont beleive this particular plant is having a ph problem. Wouldnt the bottom leaves start if it were ph instead of the middle and top leaves??

 

[kannubis]

1 tsp per gallon is more than enough molasses if feeding every other watering with it
get the ro water and work from there, Snype is on it

 

[fishwater]

I am not disputing Snypes opinion about the molasses, I give them more than some people.

But my point here is the plant that is sick... Too much molasses is not causing that.. The 11 other plants are looking real good, healthy as can be....

Trying to figure out how to save this one plant, it is getting worse and worse by the day. It wont be due for a watering for another 3 days, if it is still alive....

 

[Snype]

This is all I can tell you and I took this into account from the beginning. Your plants are from seed which means they will all eat a little differently. They are not all exactly the same. That's why you do these tests in the beginning and keep good records so you can eliminate the ones you don't want, and keep the one or 2 that you want. You keep this plant for years and years because now you know what it likes. You continue to clone it on and on and so on. Some of your seed plants will be more sensitive than others and that's why I cross those ones off of the list. Some of my plants like 2000 PPM and some can't go over 800 PPM without getting all messed up. So the whole point is you have a calcium lock out on that specific plant and that one needs a different formula than the rest. The rest might do something else and you'll have to figure her out. I know you think you can just put water in the bucket and grow but I think you get the point.

 

[bombadil.360]

what about using apple cider vinegar for pH down? it is organic.

 

[fishwater]

Yes vineagar works, but in this water it only works for a very short time.

In r/o water, if you dip a spoon handle in vinegar and then stir a gallon of r/o, the ph goes down to 4.. not sure for how long, I will check that out...

 

[OrganicMonkey]

Looks like a Calcium lockout to me. Calcium locks out at 6.4 and below and you're ging them 6.0 with the Molassas. I'm a little confused are you using well water or RO water? You're going with too much Molassas if they get it every watering and when you add it you shoud pH it to 6.6 - 6.8. We understand you water as needed by weight but how often is that?

It's obviously to much calcium, causing a magnesium deficiency. I know, people get confused by to much of one thing not looking like enough of another.

Fact is man, a cup of dolomite lime is a lot, then that is all lime that is making your tap water hard. That is why your ph goes up almost a full point value, which is a lot and I'd be concerned about the soil chemistry.

I always get the same ph I put in, with my run off. I put in 6.5 and get exactly 6.5! Hard water is not a problem, if you know how to use that. I grow in soil outdoors that tests at PH 8, I can't dig holes big enough to get away from that lime rich soil.

Molasses also has magnesium, but molasses needs to be metabolized through bacteria to be available for uptake. That is a lot of calcium for your plants, not that the bone meal adds any less.

I don't see why lime is required, if you are giving alkaline nutrients. I use a full spectrum fertilizer among many others, so I don't require the nutrient value of lime. Plus, most dry fertilizers if not every single one is quite alkaline.

Now, I know that Snype see's Nitrogen burns and cries out magnesium deficiency...then he see's a classic magnesium deficiency and says it's not enough calcium when it's surely to much.

If you were using to much Molasses, your soil would smell like rotten garbage. There is no way that calcium locks out below 6.4, once again hydroponics runs in the range of five (5.3 is common). Your run off isn't that low.

Your ph is going up, because of having so much lime (cal/mag) in the soil. The citric acid isn't remaining stable, because of this imbalance. You simply have to much of a buffer, lime is actually quite a strong base. What is the ph of your water when it first comes out of the tap? I guess above 8, which means you don't require any lime at all.

A cup of lime or even a half, covers a very large area outdoors. As long as your giving ph'd water and your not having a serious rot problem within the soil, then there should be no risk of acidosis.

 

[OrganicMonkey]

To solve the problem is quite tricky, I'd throw out the soil and start from scratch. Giving ph'd water, so that it tests when it comes out exactly where you want it is also a viable plan.

Micro blast is good, it lowers the ph of my tap water almost an entire point value. When I give just maxi crop, another magnesium source, I need to adjust with citric acid. Anytime I give a liquid fertilizer, PBP and pure blend, micro blast, catalyst, I need to give ph up.

I didn't complicate my soil chemistry, so there are no major interactions. You have so many alkaline molecules, that the ion exchange is never quite stable. So, also having plenty of run off is going to help get ride of your excessive bases.

Sorry for your bad news, this sort is a pain and not an easy solution.

 

[fishwater]

Thanks, OrganicMonkey..

Your the first one to give me something substantial to work off of in this thread. Not that I dont appreciate the other input.

Yes, I didnt research enough before mixing the soil. I read the first 20 pages of the organics for beginners, with everyone swearing that an LC mix with dolomite lime was a fool proof deal no matter what.
I have since come to find out that the 9ph of your tap matters, and you cannot in fact throw your meter away.
But, what the hell.. learning is good... just wished I lived somewhere with some good 6.5 water and my mix would be perfect...

The plant in question is looking much better now, since adding more molasses water. The spots have quit growing, the leaves are staying green, and has actually grown another node in the last day or two.

My water runs 155 ppm ... 9ph... so it is rich in calcium, no doubt... probably rich in everything. The ph can easily be adjusted, with citric acid or the molasses or store bought ph down (nitric acid). I am trying not to hurt the beneficials by using the molasses, which I beleive feeds them. The straight acids cannot be to good for them.\

I have decided I dont need to use the micro blast.. dont think I am deficient in any trace minerals.

R/O water pisses me off... cannot adjust it... and it needs to be lower ph for my fucked up mix. I think the reason my mix is so ph hot is that I used ffof and added the 1 cup of lime, as per lc mix#2. The plants I have transplanted I used 1/2 the lime and dont see any problems yet.

Thanks for looking in on me, I really do appreciate it...

 

[OrganicMonkey]

A few things, first is that lime is only good for some mediums. Not a lot per gallon of soil, which it isn't good to use volume in this hobby over mass. The chemistry is mass, not volume interacting.

Fresh compost, peat moss, these things are not finished decomposing (an acid producing state) and some haven't even started. I only use coco which isn't going to rot but can become a medium, for rot aka infections. I use humus that I find and that is very old, it's well matured compost. I also find tree's that aren't quite humus yet, that are spongy and just crush apart when I squeeze if dried. They kinda are different wet, so that isn't fun to crumple.

I have over come my fear of tap water having minerals that are alkaline. These are good, but it's important to remember that water can only hold so much matter. Different substances have different solubility within water and ph greatly effects that!

I use micro blast, it says to use it every other week. You can also dilute and add every week, it's good to stay up on your micro nutrients.

Where are you finding nitric acid for your ph down? I have never seen nitric acid available to the civilian population that isn't industrial work place usage. Citric acid is what I prefer, it doesn't take much and it dissolves quickly.

 

[fishwater]

You are confirming my suspicions about the lime. The well water I have is weird. It is 9ph and 155ppm but it also smells of sulpher at different times thru the year. It was always my understanding that if any sulphur would make your water acidic, but this stays right up at 8.8-9.1..... I understand the mass concept, the different substances, but my water blows me out..

I am going to give everyone a shot of the microblast, about to go to 12/12 in the next few days..

The nitric acid is in the store bought ph down I have. Its the only thing listed. TECHNAFLORA PH DOWN.. made in Canada.

I was using the citric acid, but in MY water, after it sets about 3-4 days, the ph is back up to 7.8 or so, whereas the molasses doesnt do that. I only water every 4 days so I quit useing it. But, now that they are bigger and using more water, I will give them citric acid every other time...

 

[OrganicMonkey]

Remember that elements, form molecules. So what smells like sulfur, is a sulfur compound, not necessarily acidic. That can't be to good finding sulfur smells, I wonder what that is.

Give citric acid only to balance your ph solution, it's a constant. Then again, sometimes solutions never require ph down citric acid, unless you meant every other time being nitric acid or citric acid. Anyhow, nutrients are often enough ph down if you don't give to much ph up and over correct.

 

[Snype]

Fish I don't like what is going on in the Infirmary because of this, I will address your problem over PM or Visitor Message. If you still need help let me know.

 

[Snype]

message was put into the wrong thread. I am putting it where it belongs.

 

[Snype]

Fish,
I hope that you don't take this the wrong way because the way that I talk to people usually offends them.

The reason that I asked you to use the bottled water is because I've seen problems in the past with certain types of well water causing problems in plants. I suggested the bottled water so we can get through the process of elimination and I personally have steps that I take to get there. After we addressed your problem, the next step would have been to try out the well water after we find the problem and then we can see if the water helped cause the initial problem. I know you may not be a newbee but one of the first things you learn in growing is how important pH is. I also have not been growing since 1983, it was 1993.

If you are angry at me, I will try and understand. I would appreciate if you don't hold it against me how I talk to people because I don't always have full control with it because of my mental disorders. We are all different in life and act and do different things. I wish you well in your life with your grows.

I also would like to say that I shouldn't have used the words calcium lockout, I should have said calcium problem. I explained in that post that Calcium Locks out at 6.4 and below. This is the statement that you gave me from your form,

"I have some Earth Juice Micro Blast nutes, maybe I should give it a light shot...... If its not ph.. I know the ph is was a little high, but when I add molasses to the 9ph well water, the ph goes down to 6 or so and I water with that everytime."

You said that you water with that everytime. This is the statement which led me to believe that you were having not only a Calcium Problem but also could lead to a Magnesium problem because they are the same lockout levels in soil. Now you're talking like you water with a pH of 6.0 every time which is going to lead me to your Calcium problems. Now if Calcium locks out at 6.4 and below and you're watering with 6.0 solution every time then in my opinion you are going to have problems.

Look at this statement that OrganicMonkey said to you:

There is no way that calcium locks out below 6.4, once again hydroponics runs in the range of five (5.3 is common).

Now if you think that statement is true then watch this statement by Stitch from the same sticky that you got your form from which no one is going to argue with:

Calcium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 6.4. Calcium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency.

So are you trying to tell me that Stitch is wrong? Sorry man but the facts are right here. You can't compare pH levels of hydroponics to soil because they are just too different.