This should be simple for you nute gurus

[stealth_60x7]

I've been running Lucas formula for a few years on the same strain w/ no problems (0-5-10 veg / 0-8-16 flower). I got some new cuts from a friend and they don't seem to like ole Lucas at all!! I have an obvious deficiency (looks like maybe an iron def but not sure). I went ahead and flipped the lights the other night to 12/12 and mixed up a batch of my usual 0-8-16.
These girls are now showing signs of nute burn (crispy leaves, tips are a lil burnt etc).
I have never deviated from the 0-8-16 in flower. When a new batch is mixed my res reads around 1300 ppm / 1.80 to 2.00 ec.
This seems to be to strong for this strain.

My question is...

Once I fill my res w/ the 0-8-16 mix and it reads 1300ppm can I add some plain water to take the PPM down to 900 or 1000 or will that throw off the balance of nutes. I don't want to muck things up any worse as they are already suffering from the nute def they had while in veg.
Can someone help me with this? It's really important that I get this figured out (4KW grow. The plants are in 4'x4' tables w/ 80 plants total. 1 gal pots filled w/ nothing but hydroton and the 1" RW cube that the plant was rooted in. Top fed x4 times a day for 30 min per watering).

THANKS GUYS!

 

[ourcee]

you could just add less nutes instead of adding back plain water... unless you are watering your old clones with the 1300 solution, THEN diluting for your new strains...

i have some strains that will eat nutes all day long, and if I gave 1/2 that strength to other strains, they would be over ferted...

diff strains, diff nutrient uptake.

is your pH good? before assuming a deficiency, make sure your pH is spot on.

 

[FreezerBoy]

What's your pH doing? EC and pH move in opposite directions. EC up, pH down=too rich. EC down, pH up=too lean.

Rather than mix at 0-8-16 and water it down, just mix up an 0-5-10 solution and see what happens. When you can get pH to swing between 6.0-5.6 over a week or two, you're golden.

Forget about matching charts that have never met you or your grow. Use pH and EC to ask the plants what they want. I've had strains that say 0-3-6 is too strong.

 

[stealth_60x7]

Freezer & ourcee THANKS!!

I always have to bring the PH up after mixing a new batch but as of now it's pretty level staying around 5.6 to 5.8.

The balance seems to be good as they have used quite a bit of water but the PPM and PH is staying about the same.

So your saying that if I add back some plain water and bring my PPM down that it won't mess up the balance of nutes? I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the whole nute thing. I've read many of your post regarding nutrients, Freezer...glad you chimed in!
You mention 0-3-6...how do you know if that will be the correct balance of nutes? Why not 0-6-3...I guess I can't really explain what I'm asking...I just don't get it. damnit.

 

[stealth_60x7]

you could just add less nutes instead of adding back plain water... unless you are watering your old clones with the 1300 solution, THEN diluting for your new strains...

i have some strains that will eat nutes all day long, and if I gave 1/2 that strength to other strains, they would be over ferted...

diff strains, diff nutrient uptake.

is your pH good? before assuming a deficiency, make sure your pH is spot on.

That's what I'm asking. I know they need less nutes but how do I know what mix to give them? 0-2-7, 0-3-6 so on so on...where do these numbers come from? what constitutes a good, balanced mix (if that makes sense)?

 

[groady-ho]

stealth, drop down your mix..instead of and 8ml/16ml micro to bloom try using 5ml/10ml micro to bloom and see if that's better..also i let my nutes sit an hour or so the let the ph buffers work before using them..
hope this helps you..

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Your tap water has a HUGE influence on what is going on. And in the same breath - make the nute mix, differernt from area to area. just sayin - you kinda seem locked into "a formula" and plants don't read meters.

Those numbers are a reference - a 1000 PPM with Botanicare is not the same as a 1000PPM with GH - well - it could be, but not always.

And the 5-6-7 N-P-K figgures - I'll use for my refereence - as to higher N or more P-K, for plant development. - Mostly nitrogen for veg - but a flower nute feeding is benificial to young growing plants.
When I find a mix where the plant is happy - I'll record the figgures and do adjustments from there.

And just because it was ok, dosen't mean it is the same. (water, - and nutes - old nutes can go bad)


Pick a ratio - for me,, using botanicare, I have been using 6 teaspoons of grow or bloom and 6 of cal-mag,, I felt - maybe a little high on cal-mag so now I've backed down a couple tsp - and I like the results so far, but I have clear rocky mountain spring water. (pretty high mineral content)

I have good results with multiple strains and phenos at the same time but I can tell a few could be happier - that is an advantage to single strain runs - but the extra work is good when you have a couple choices after harvest time.



After reading the other posts - that should about cover it! lol


Grow em big!

 

[*mistress*]

.......

 

[stealth_60x7]

I use R/O water w/ starting TDS of 9 PPM. I'm absolutely sure that it is not a lack of water. The lower hydroton (where the roots are)stays wet and retains enough moisture to keep them perky between watering. I've been using this method for years and I've never had an issue with lack of water before so I don't think that is the culprit.
This particular strain can't handle the high level of nutes.

I have a pretty firm grasp of N-P-K etc but what I don't understand is how to calculate how much of which GH 3 part I need to achieve a lower PPM and keep the nutes balanced so there are no lockouts.

I've experimented with different mixes of the GH 3 part but it always ends up in failure (burnt plants, nute deficiencies etc) so I always fall back on the Lucas formula. Problem is that Lucas isn't working for this strain.

 

[Graham Purwatt]

i see what you're saying but all the hard work is done with the lucas formula already.no need to worry about the different ratios of each element so much as the strength.by adding water you are diluting it, it is changing the ppms to a lower strength,but not changing each elements ratio in proportion to each other.its still the lucas formula ratios which are 1ml micro to 2 ml of bloom(5:10,8:16).i use the lucas formula too and have the same problem running different strains at the same time.some like it full strength,some much less.i often mix enough nutes in for 1 gallon into 3 gallons of water to reduce the strength down.hope that helps.

 

[stealth_60x7]

Thank you Graham Purwatt! That's what I was looking for.

You mention Lucas ratio as being 1ml micro and 2ml bloom? Am I reading this right? I thought it was 8ml micro and 16ml bloom!

 

[keke.nz]

^ 8ml micro and 16ml bloom = 1ml/2ml if you break it down.

Sorry I cant help with your problem, I cant get my head around it either.

Good luck with the plants.

Peace keke

 

[Hydro-Soil]

So... you JUST introduced them to the Lucas nutrition and now you're throwing them into flower? Ouch.

Sounds to me like they're used to something completely different. No worries though. Make sure you keep a cutting for a mum.... raise it on Lucas and treat it like your other strain. I'm predicting that you'll see a greatly reduced problem the next run.

You might have to lower your overall nute str when running both those strains together.


Stay Safe!

 

[superusa]

Here's a Lucas calculator if it might help you....

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...mMtN2ZlNi00MGFhLTkyNWEtYmRlODkzNDU1OWZh&hl=en

 

[Godless]

This whole "Lucas Formula" thing seemed way more complicated than it really is to me when I first started reading about it. Like the poster above said, the important part is the ratio of 1:2 micro to bloom. It should have been called the Lucas Ratio IMO...

I think that the specific mix (0-5-10 veg / 0-8-16 flower) is supposed to be a general guideline for growing a common commercial strain.

Since I grow sativas, which are known for being real sensitive to the over feed, I ignore the specific numbers and just stick to the ratio. When I put them into flower, I start the res out around (0-4-8) and every other day I add a dose of 50ml/100ml (I have a 70 gal res) until I see a slight burn on the tips, at which point, I'll add a couple gallons more R/O and keep doing plain R/O add backs to keep the water level up as they drink (also the dehumidifier in the sealed room drains back to the res). My 55 day strain gets only this res until flush time. My 100 day Kali Mist gets a mid grow flush and a fresh res.

 

[FreezerBoy]

You mention 0-3-6...how do you know if that will be the correct balance of nutes? Why not 0-6-3...

Lucas is based on NPK ratios I first saw from Rosenthal and Frank. With GH 3 part nutes, these ratios CANNOT be approximated using Flora Grow (the 0 in 0-8-16) but, without the Grow, you can get darn close.

Strength is determined by charting EC and pH over several days. Remember the EC up-ph down=too rich and, EC down-pH up=too lean? Because of this we feed in the direction of pH movement.

I started at 0-8-16 and pH crashed through the floor. At 0-4-8, pH dropped much slower but, still too fast. At 0-2-4, EC and pH flat lined for over a month (Which turned out to be a bad thing. Wide spread yellowing through out the garden) This meant that 0-3-6 was "too strong" BUT it was just barely too strong so, starting pH @ 6.0 it would take 2 weeks for pH to drop from 6.0 to 5.6 (rather than 2 hours or 2 days). At the end of 2 weeks, 4 gal of tap water would drop EC and raise pH back to starting levels.

1:1 would be a veg formula as vegging plants need more N than flowering plants. 2:1 (or 0-6-3) would be an aggressive veg formula. NOT something you want for flowering.

 

[stealth_60x7]

Wow guys it finally clicked. I GET IT! Didn't realize the "formula" is one part micro to two part bloom! THIS IS GREAT...time to start playing w/ new strains!!

THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU