Dreamscape
Member
any specific type / seller ??
Where to buy Activated Carbon... Anyone know?
- Thread starter Squire5683
- Start date
any specific type / seller ??
Ah, see, I see the problem. You have no clue what you're talking about.
Why would you need to build 4-6 filters? Unless you're screwing up really badly, you wouldn't. If you need to build 4-6 filters, you'd need to buy 4-6 filters.
I have no problems with you buying a filter, that's fine, I have no doubt it is a great product. I do have a problem with you making bullshit claims about DIY filters just to justify the amount of money you spent on a manufactured.
A properly constructed DIY filter can perform the same task as your $180 filter for much less money. Price has nothing to do with effectiveness.
You have no concept of what DIY filters are capable of, or their cost.
It's the time that kills you. I've redesigned/reconstructed mine twice.
Dreamscape
Member
That was too many years ago man
yeah I figured it was worth a shot anyways
Anyone else got recommendations of what carbon / who to buy it from on eBay ??
I'm asking because i've got a mountain air filter from about 3 years ago that sat in storage of varying temps for the past 3 years and i've just now brought it out and i'm not entirely sure that its really doing much ... SO ... I'm entertaining the thought of just refilling it after drilling some holes in it.
You are the one who has no clue. The Can 100 (as i am sure many other filters) holds 80+lbs of carbon. Can you buy 80lbs of carbon for $50? No, it will cost $160 + shipping (or slightly better using the place rrog mentioned).
80lbs of carbon will last 4 times longer than 20lbs (and that would be equal carbon, which your ebay carbon is not). If you think 5-10lbs of carbon in a filter will last as long as 80lbs, your smokin some good shit.
Then you have to add the cost of materials and time. What ever you choose to use (i used to use 5 gallon buckets to build mine) still cost money and now-a-days my time is much more $$ than what it used to be.
In the end, for me, buying a commercially made filter made the most logical and financial sense by leaps and bounds.
Wow, someone still buys into the 'bigger is better' rule.
My 20lb scrubber will match yours in every way, except weight and cost.
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that weight means squat to how a carbon scrubber works, it's about surface area and thickness. Denser does not mean better.
You'd also know that humidity degrades carbon at a steady rate, so your 80 pounds is going to need changing at the same time as mine in a grow environment. 80 or 20, all decays at the same rate.
Little things you don't get from reading the CAN website. You know, the ones from actual experience and knowledge?
Like I said, I've got no problems with manufactured filters. I know guys who have used them and love them.
You got a CAN, good for you! It made more sense for you to buy than build. Sounds like you made a wise choice.
But you most certainly could have built a filter to do the same job equally as well for less money. Quit trying to justify your decision by bashing what you wouldn't do.
My 20lb scrubber will match yours in every way, except weight and cost.
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that weight means squat to how a carbon scrubber works, it's about surface area and thickness. Denser does not mean better.
You'd also know that humidity degrades carbon at a steady rate, so your 80 pounds is going to need changing at the same time as mine in a grow environment. 80 or 20, all decays at the same rate.
Little things you don't get from reading the CAN website. You know, the ones from actual experience and knowledge?
Like I said, I've got no problems with manufactured filters. I know guys who have used them and love them.
You got a CAN, good for you! It made more sense for you to buy than build. Sounds like you made a wise choice.
But you most certainly could have built a filter to do the same job equally as well for less money. Quit trying to justify your decision by bashing what you wouldn't do.
L
lysol
If you're really going to go DIY, it is cheaper to buy ready made filters and rip them open (as silly as some would say that is). That is objective. Lb for Lb.
My research was to go to google and type in "50# carbonaire filter", pay $100US and have 50lbs of carbon arrive at my door.
Putting more carbon does make a difference (to a certain point). More total surface area, therefore gets used up more slowly.
Common sense tells me humidity does not degrade carbon, moisture does. Common sense tells me if you pull less wet air thru there, less moisture will degrade the carbon as a result. If I'm wrong I wasted $50. I'm not crying over it ;-) It costs $50 just to go jail.
My research was to go to google and type in "50# carbonaire filter", pay $100US and have 50lbs of carbon arrive at my door.
Putting more carbon does make a difference (to a certain point). More total surface area, therefore gets used up more slowly.
Common sense tells me humidity does not degrade carbon, moisture does. Common sense tells me if you pull less wet air thru there, less moisture will degrade the carbon as a result. If I'm wrong I wasted $50. I'm not crying over it ;-) It costs $50 just to go jail.
I agree 100%. The raw materials are cheap. The quality of available materials is high. The design needs are simple.
Squire5683
Member
Holy crap... I started a fire!! Thanks for all the info. Im a building contractor, and all the components of my filter were laying around in my scrap heaps. Im gonna buy the Coconut carbon that the above suggested....
Oh and to clarify.... Someone said.... "Common sense tells me humidity does not degrade carbon, moisture does." LOL this cracks me up.... HUMIDITY IS MOISTURE! The percentage of humidity tells you how much water is in the air... ie more humidity more water. I think we learned this in third grade or something.
Anyways.... Thanks for all the input.
Oh and to clarify.... Someone said.... "Common sense tells me humidity does not degrade carbon, moisture does." LOL this cracks me up.... HUMIDITY IS MOISTURE! The percentage of humidity tells you how much water is in the air... ie more humidity more water. I think we learned this in third grade or something.
Anyways.... Thanks for all the input.
madpenguin
Member
I really hate to get into the middle of this but I'm going to anyway...
I really don't see how Albireo can be wrong on this. It seems to be common logic and deduction. Pound for pound, it is cheaper to buy a pre-made one. When you buy a can filter that contains 80 lbs worth of carbon and they sell for xyz dollars, I guarantee you can't find carbon that cheap anywhere for the total cost of the can filter.
So... You pay more just buying 80 lbs of carbon that isn't made to the same specifications as the carbon that's in a can filter, PLUS, you haven't even spent any money on materials to actually build the damn thing.
You seem to be arguing that 20 lbs of carbon can do the same job as 80lbs. Crap. With 80 lbs of carbon in a huge can filter you have way more surface area than you'll ever get with 20lbs of water/coal based carbon in a DIY filter.
If your just growing one or 2 plants, then sure, a DIY carbon filter that's relatively small will work just fine. You put that thing in my bloom room with 32 Ice plants mid way into bloom and you'll smell that shit all the way down the street. Take out that chincey DIY filter and slap a huge can filter in there that stands 4 feet or taller and I get NO smell for over 12 months coming from that room. Proof positive that the bigger your filter, the more surface area of carbon, thus the more effective it will be at removing odors.
Your absolutely right. It's all about surface area. So bigger is better hands down.
Again, Buy a large can filter, take it apart and weigh all the carbon. Then go out and buy that same amount of carbon from where ever. You'll spend more trying to buy your own carbon than you would if you just bought a pre-made can filter.
When the carbon in my filter goes south, I'm going to chuck the entire thing and just buy a new one. Unless someone can show me where to buy dirt cheap carbon.... Paying 4 dollars a pound is a complete rip off. Unless you can buy it for under $2 dollars a pound, I'll always opt for the new filter. It's just basic economics....
As a side note, when I looked at pre-made filters some time ago i wasn't able to find one that used premium coconut carbon. That was important to me, but obviously not mission-critical.
And perhaps more are now using it, but I doubt it, as it's more expensive and I don't think most consumers want it / are willing to pay for it.
What seems odd is that for basic, simply manufactured items, it's generally less expensive to build yourself. Like a wood table, etc. Yes, a very large manufacturer can buy raw materials for less due to volume, but often not giant savings. Complex things like appliances are obviously cheaper to buy than build.
Given the simplicity of the filters, the pricing that's being discussed seems odd. So either something isn't being correctly represented, or there is an unusually large markup with carbon. The fan motors are very competitive with not much margin / markup, so the price disparity we're discussing is mostly carbon.
And perhaps more are now using it, but I doubt it, as it's more expensive and I don't think most consumers want it / are willing to pay for it.
What seems odd is that for basic, simply manufactured items, it's generally less expensive to build yourself. Like a wood table, etc. Yes, a very large manufacturer can buy raw materials for less due to volume, but often not giant savings. Complex things like appliances are obviously cheaper to buy than build.
Given the simplicity of the filters, the pricing that's being discussed seems odd. So either something isn't being correctly represented, or there is an unusually large markup with carbon. The fan motors are very competitive with not much margin / markup, so the price disparity we're discussing is mostly carbon.
L
lysol
You don't know the difference between humidity and relative humidity do you?
If you move 500cfm of air thru the filter, there is X amount of liquids going thru. Divide that by the amount of carbon.
You can't just take relative humidity as a percentage and link that directly to the lifetime of the carbon. Its the liters of water being pushed thru it. (Ex. if you let it sit with the fan off, it would not be used up as fast, no?)
L
lysol
I think I could take a stab at that. There is simply no market for anyone to sell this carbon on retail scale like that. Besides pot growers who honestly needs 50 pounds of activated carbon at a time? Most people pay $10 a lb at the supermarket or the pet store, for a 2# jar of it.
There is simply no market for the filters other then pot growers. And out of the limited market, guess what... 9/10 would rather buy off the shelf then build the supplies.
No market for the carbon at the retail, consumer level true, true. So the carbon market sells carbon commercially but if some bozo like me wants it, the price is jacked up pretty high.
I can totally see that. I feel like buying a few thousand pounds of quality carbon and sell it myself on ebay.
I can totally see that. I feel like buying a few thousand pounds of quality carbon and sell it myself on ebay.
I am indeed arguing that you can do the same job with less carbon. You claim weight = surface area, but I'm saying weight merely adds density.
While density does play a role, you reach a point where that difference becomes negligible. As the carbon is jammed into the filter, what do you think happens to the carbon granules? They are broken and crushed. Carbon dust does not improve air scrubbing ability, and does not provide more surface area.
Also, you're making an assumption there that is not accurate. My scrubber is not little, it stands at 3 ft. And it does indeed scrub large grows very efficiently, without releasing odors. For just as long or longer.
I'm not pulling this outta my ass guys, this comes from working with growers in my area, and seeing how the scubbers work over time. I've watched CANs that weigh more need replacing and refilled at roughly the same time, within just a couple of months of each other. A few instances, the DIY lasted longer, but those I discount as freaks
Plus, in those cases where the grower decided to refil his scrubber instead of sending it back to CAN, it was a royal pain in the ass. Keep in mind also that you're lacking those shaker tables CAN likes to bring up, so good luck getting a full 80 lbs back inside the thing
Am I saying that DIY beats a manufactured filter in every way? No, I'm not. The area where I feel the manufactured scrubbers shine is in versatility and convenience. Plus, you do have a more polished product that has more ruggedness.
My scrubbers do look a bit ghetto, and I've split them open before during moves
But that doesn't make them less effective in their job. I also don't recommend mounting a DIY scrubber vertically, that goes to the versatility aspect, and is where the density is crucial. The carbon is packed so dense in the manufactured filters, it just won't shift. In a DIY scrubber, you will certainly get shifting, and that can open up gaps in the carbon, not just compromising the integrity, but most likely, completely nullifying the scrubber. That's just not an issue with CANs, you could mount those things upside down if you want
To be perfectly honest, in my opinion, one of the best things about a manufactured filter is not having to screw with the carbon. I swear to god, if you open a bag of carbon somewhere, it's there forever. You'll never get it all, ever. Plus, you don't have to rinse that shit. Dead lifting an 80lb can once or twice is a lot less painful than lifting 20lbs of carbon repeatedly to rinse and drain, then dry it out thoroughly. Can't be the least bit moist when it gets packed in, or your instantly costing yourself life, going back to the humidity aspect.
As to the cost of carbon, of course CAN gets it cheaper. I don't buy as much as they do
But, even if we assume you're right, and that 20lb filter doesn't last as long, I can still refill it twice before I reach the cost of a manufactured unit. And no, you're CAN is not lasting 3x as long as the DIY, even if you want to assume it will last longer at all, which has not been my experience.There are many benefits to using a manufactured filter, but please, quit saying a DIY can't do the same job. It certainly can, and does.
Hope that clears up my position
L
lysol
BS. Ever seen filters like these? http://www.amazon.com/HAPF60-Carbon-Cleaner-Replacement-Filter/dp/B0009H7BJC
Right on their box it says its carbon dust coated filter. yes they suck, but I still assert more carbon = more scrubbing. Carbon removes smell because of it's chemical absorpotion. When you have 80lbs of crushed carbon, there is more surface area then 50lbs of crushed carbon. More surface area. More density. More carbon, period. Maybe negligible, but a difference. Besides carbon works via chemical absorption (of which, surface area just facilitates)
Also you've got me thinking about the humidity thing. If carbon is so susceptible to humidity how do people use it in their fish tanks?
Furthermore larger filters = better because the slower the air moves, the longer the time the air is exposed to the absorbent carbon. The more density, the longer the air contacts carbon. The longer it contacts, the more it removes smell. You'd have to paste some sources to make me believe otherwise, personally.
I agree with these parts. I don't think anyone said they couldn't do the same job, they obviously can. They "can" also do a better job. Could also do a "worse" job. In reality it probably does a better job in terms of total efficiency. In terms of convenience it does a worse job. There is no perfect scenario in all things in life. Every decision (buying off the shelve vs DIY) will have certain trade offs, so it comes down to personal preference ;-)As to the cost of carbon, of course CAN gets it cheaper. I don't buy as much as they doBut, even if we assume you're right, and that 20lb filter doesn't last as long, I can still refill it twice before I reach the cost of a manufactured unit. And no, you're CAN is not lasting 3x as long as the DIY, even if you want to assume it will last longer at all, which has not been my experience.
There are many benefits to using a manufactured filter, but please, quit saying a DIY can't do the same job. It certainly can, and does.
One thing is objective though. More carbon in a filter, means that that filter has more absorption capacity.
TexasToker
Member
Interesting thing today.
I was at a fellow growers house and was talking about this thread. He said that he uses Grilling Charcoal busted up. It seems to work just fine. He said after he saw the prices he went to walmart and bought a bag of briquettes and a sledge hammer.
Works for him it seems, he just said don't use Match-lite type briquettes. Small 15 plant grow.
Anyone else ever tried this?
Came across this info...for kicks. :
First of all, keep all the required materials ready for making activated charcoal; you need coconut shells (without meat), burning sink, oven, 25 percent concentrated solution of calcium chloride (CaCl2) or zinc chloride (ZnCl2), sterilized water, plastic pail, draining tray, zipper bags and blender. Before starting the procedure, you can strip off coconut shells, wash thoroughly with clean water and allow them to dry completely. If drying is not done properly, they may be difficult to burn.
Add the dried coconut shells in the burning sink by adjusting the temperature to about 600 - 900 degrees Fahrenheit. Maintain the recommended temperature range and burn continuously for about 4 ½ hours or until the coconut shells turn into ash. For safe handling, you can leave the ash until it cools down. After the ash has cooled down, carefully take out the ash from the sink and transfer it into a clean plastic pail. Then, pour the 25 percent concentrated solution of calcium chloride or zinc chloride into the plastic pail.
The amount of calcium chloride or zinc chloride solution should be such that the ash is soaked completely into the solution. Cover the pail with a lid and leave for 20 - 24 hours. During this process, the chemicals are impregnated into the ash, after which further treatment will transform the ash into activated charcoal. The next step is removing the charcoal from the chemical solution and transferring it into a draining tray. Allow solution to drain for about 1 hour.
For removal of any trace chemicals from the charcoal, you can wash and rinse repeatedly with sterilized water. Thorough washing is essential in order to get rid of the chemical solution, which is one of the most common problems in the making of activated charcoal by chemical activation procedure. After washing, keep the charcoal in the tray for draining water. Following this, transfer the charcoal into an oven, setting the temperature to about 215 - 230 degrees Fahrenheit and bake for about 3 hours.
After baking, remove the activated charcoal from the oven and crush it with the help of a blender. You can also grind the activated charcoal into powder form by using a hammer. For future use, store the powdered activated charcoal into zipper bags or airtight containers. This way you can make activated charcoal on your own.
I was at a fellow growers house and was talking about this thread. He said that he uses Grilling Charcoal busted up. It seems to work just fine. He said after he saw the prices he went to walmart and bought a bag of briquettes and a sledge hammer.
Works for him it seems, he just said don't use Match-lite type briquettes. Small 15 plant grow.
Anyone else ever tried this?
Came across this info...for kicks. :
First of all, keep all the required materials ready for making activated charcoal; you need coconut shells (without meat), burning sink, oven, 25 percent concentrated solution of calcium chloride (CaCl2) or zinc chloride (ZnCl2), sterilized water, plastic pail, draining tray, zipper bags and blender. Before starting the procedure, you can strip off coconut shells, wash thoroughly with clean water and allow them to dry completely. If drying is not done properly, they may be difficult to burn.
Add the dried coconut shells in the burning sink by adjusting the temperature to about 600 - 900 degrees Fahrenheit. Maintain the recommended temperature range and burn continuously for about 4 ½ hours or until the coconut shells turn into ash. For safe handling, you can leave the ash until it cools down. After the ash has cooled down, carefully take out the ash from the sink and transfer it into a clean plastic pail. Then, pour the 25 percent concentrated solution of calcium chloride or zinc chloride into the plastic pail.
The amount of calcium chloride or zinc chloride solution should be such that the ash is soaked completely into the solution. Cover the pail with a lid and leave for 20 - 24 hours. During this process, the chemicals are impregnated into the ash, after which further treatment will transform the ash into activated charcoal. The next step is removing the charcoal from the chemical solution and transferring it into a draining tray. Allow solution to drain for about 1 hour.
For removal of any trace chemicals from the charcoal, you can wash and rinse repeatedly with sterilized water. Thorough washing is essential in order to get rid of the chemical solution, which is one of the most common problems in the making of activated charcoal by chemical activation procedure. After washing, keep the charcoal in the tray for draining water. Following this, transfer the charcoal into an oven, setting the temperature to about 215 - 230 degrees Fahrenheit and bake for about 3 hours.
After baking, remove the activated charcoal from the oven and crush it with the help of a blender. You can also grind the activated charcoal into powder form by using a hammer. For future use, store the powdered activated charcoal into zipper bags or airtight containers. This way you can make activated charcoal on your own.
Bolded the relevant part
But, fair enough, the dust may have some effect, but again, negligible.Again on the bolding
Because you're scrubbing water instead of air. When we're scrubbing air, moisture works against you - where the moisture clogs the pores we need. Why do you think the first step in reactivating the carbon is high temp drying?
Come one man, you know there are more ways to reduce your airflow than packing in more carbon. Airflow is something we mess with constantly in growing! You can even use poly as a diffuser to slow down the air and reduce flow id necessary. As a matter of fact, I believe CAN does exactly that, last I checked
Glad we have found something we can agree on, and I appreciate your statement "In reality it probably does a better job in terms of total efficiency."
That's all I've been trying to say. Bigger does not inherently mean better.
To be fair, I did point out the pluses of manufactured scrubbers myself, and they can be significant. Convenience and versatility can make all the difference in the world depending on your situation.
