passive plant killer

[*mistress*]

why *mistress* prefer to surround top 1/3 root ball w/ inert media...
found that the these 'air' roots, will survive & thrive, even if not directly watered.
maybe this why they can grow straight out of the stem & down into the substrate.
they are being provided water by other portions of the plant.

kind of shatters concept of keeping entire volume of media wet-moist 24-7...
or, need for multiple daily feeds.

what would be interesting is to see if a plant that was allowed to redistribute water vs. plant that is constantly fed/wet... which would be healthier? minimum water table, or maximum saturation?

seems minimum water permits more oxygen content of the medium; which roots also like.

keep the tech coming, delta9nxs.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey!

“kind of shatters concept of keeping entire volume of media wet-moist 24-7...
or, need for multiple daily feeds.”

Yes, after vegetative root development.

“what would be interesting is to see if a plant that was allowed to redistribute water vs. plant that is constantly fed/wet... which would be healthier? minimum water table, or maximum saturation?”

Wet during veg, dry during flower.

Before I learned of this phenomena I had always thought of roots as one way transporters. This changes everything. For example, if, during the dark period, the stomata close and water goes from wet to dry areas, does the plant only release water back into the soil, or does it release water and nutes? If it does release water only, which I consider to be the most likely scenario, what happens to the elements already taken up within the plant? Are they concentrated? Is the water from the lower root zone still entering the roots with nutrients, or does the plant then limit nutrient intake, allowing mostly water through during this event. It seems to me that would raise ec in the medium, at least temporarily.

So, at this point, I believe the top watering during veg is important to root growth. But again, as the plant is getting sub-irrigated for most of it's needs, the top watering should be kept to a minimum. Just enough to keep the top of the medium moist.

Since we are growing in limited volume containers and not outside in a deep open ended water column I think it is vital to maximize air root development before introduction to flower. Especially in systems or containers being sub-irrigated. By the time flowering occurs you want the roots to be able to pull in as much o2 as possible. And capable of keeping the medium top wet via hydraulic redistribution and without external aid.

I am not top watering the all coco plants I have in flower now and the medium top is staying moist and the existing roots are staying alive. I have not yet installed the level control system on the flowering plants.

In order to facilitate this early root growth and to maximize plant potential in flower I have installed a top watering system on the six vegging plants based on “pulse” irrigation. I have a Cyclestat 4p set up to deliver 7.5 oz's to the top every 3 hours during lights on only. With a 4 hour “dark” period and the 3 hour interval I have a 7 hour period where water is not getting delivered and 6 pulses of 15 seconds duration occurring during the light period.

I have slaved the pump bucket off the float control bucket using the same spaghetti tubing technique I linked the reservoirs with. I used an old mag-drive 950 left over from the bio-bucket days and built a manifold from pvc.

This is not a drip system. There are no emitters to clog. The solution flows out of open tubes in a 15 sec “pulse”.

This causes water to move in a back and forth pulsing motion in the various containers involved. When the pump cycles on it evacuates 45 oz's of water from the pump bucket. This causes an immediate but slow suction from the control bucket. This causes the float valve to open letting in a shot of fresh solution from the volume tank which mixes with the older solution already in the control bucket which is now sending blended solution to the pump bucket. The reservoirs overfill ever so slightly from the “pulse feed” coming in from the top sending a stream counter current back to the control bucket. After a while everything stabilizes at the same 4.5” level and we wait for the next pulse in 3 hours. Meanwhile the plants use up some water and the float valve from the volume tank actuates again before the next event occurs,usually in less than an hour from the last event, injecting more fresh solution.

Except for the 15 second pump burst the whole thing happens like a slow motion ballet of water with water levels adjusting and water and nutrients commingling in a beneficial ec and ph correcting manner. No telling what the effect is on the o2 levels in the root zone.

I have been keeping daily records of ec and ph in all containers. Tonight is the first time after the pulse system was installed yesterday so i'll show these as a starting point.

volume tank 768 at 5.5

control bucket 718 at 5.7

pump bucket 744 at 5.8

res #1 792 at 5.8

#2 790 at 6.0

#3 752 at 6.0

#4 772 at 5.9

#5 770 at 5.7

#6 774 at 5.7

This gives a reservoir average ppm of 775. my volume tank was topped on the 26th at 770. since I have six plants from 8” to 3 ft at every stage of growth I feel these are remarkably stable figures.

The plants are all growing aggressively with no apparent issues except my frigging low rh.

I'll have pics of the “pulse” system tomorrow.

Btw, I harvested #8 today. 85/15 turface/coco with a pint (1 part in 40) worm castings. For pictures of it see last weeks plant. They're twins.

Later, d9

 

[delta9nxs]

Last night i meant to mention the reasoning behind the choice of 4.5" as a water level in the reservoirs.

When looking at my design you can see that essentially it is a 5 gal bucket with a single 1.5" tube protruding from the bottom.

some of you may remember the "controlled water table" discussion from earlier in the thread and how level control can be used to control moisture in the medium. And the “perched water table” phenomena which robs you of usable root space inside your container and has the potential to trigger all kinds of problems with bad bacteria and anaerobic conditions and therefore your ec and ph.

From the various discussions on the pwt we have seen that the initial height of the pwt in a container is dependent upon the fineness of the substrate used. In coco that height is probably around 1.5” maximum.

You may also remember that the height of the pwt will be the same regardless of container diameter.

So what my device does is to move the pwt downward in the container. The total container. Which also consist of the standpipe and reservoir. Out of the root zone. Creating more usable non saturated root volume.

At first glance this may not look to be terribly significant but I have some math for you to look at.

A 5 gal bucket is 10.25” inside diameter at the bottom. With a 1.5” pwt that gives a potential pwt volume of 66.25 oz's.

By moving the pwt downward into the 1.5” pipe that gives us a potential pwt volume of 1.4 oz's. A difference of almost 65 oz's. Since a 5 gal bucket holds a maximum volume of 640 oz's, we are talking about a potential loss of root space of approximately 10% of total container volume. This is especially important to those growing in smaller containers as the pwt will be the same height but will occupy a greater proportion or % of the container.

Since the bottoms of the buckets are 6” above the reservoir floor setting the water level to 4.5” should eliminate the pwt in the root zone.

Normally I would water these to 6” and let the level fall 1.5-2” before topping again. Probably creating an initial too wet condition. Not wet enough to be dangerous to the plant but wet enough to hurt growth and yield. By running the level at a fixed point you can dial in moisture content and therefore total air porosity.

Within days of setting up my linked and controlled vegging system I began seeing a marked improvement in the upper growth. My opinion is that the plants are getting more o2.

 

[delta9nxs]

here are the pics of the "pulse" system. all fairly self-explanatory. the pump bucket has a top to prevent evaporation.

i reset the delivery cycle for 6 oz's per plant at 3 hour intervals during the light period. this gives me a total of 36 oz's per plant per day.

 

[delta9nxs]

last

 

[*mistress*]

is ppk 'active', now?
or actively passive?

 

[delta9nxs]

Hi, mistress!

I guess it should be called the "slightly aggressive plant killer" now. I still don't intend to top water at all in bloom with coco. The coco plant i put into flower 2 weeks ago has not been top watered at all and is getting massive during stretch. So i guess the "pulse" set up was a response to coco's need for frequent top watering during the first week (i was doing it by hand 4 times a day) to satisfy the cec and an experiment to see if i could radically accelerate root growth during veg. After that i don't feel it is necessary. All the plants in veg have been getting some slight top watering by hand anyway. I put a 3rd coco plant into flower last night and it was huge. Once again the roots were like thick carpet at the surface.

The veg system has been consuming approx 2.77 gals per day total or 354.56 oz's. I'm still playing around with the pulse amount and interval but currently it's delivering 36 oz's per day per plant, a volume of 216 oz's per day total so approx 138 oz's per day are still being delivered by sub-irrigation. I intend to keep dialing it down a little at a time. I'm checking the medium tops for moisture at least 4 times per day right now and will keep turning it down until I get it right where I want it. One of the aussie vegetable growers using coco shows how he checks for the proper moisture content by grabbing a handful of coco off the top and squeezing it in his fist. If liquid shows between his fingers it's wet enough. Not enough to drip off but just show water.

I have 2 options for control. One is duration of event and one is interval between. So today I think i'll increase interval to 4 hours which will give me four events of 6 oz's each or 24 oz's per day per plant. So approx. 40% will be delivered by the pulse system and 60% by sub-irrigation. But really, when you think about it a part of the pulse irrigation volume is going to travel right through and then get recycled. The plant is still only going to take up so much total. It's a question of getting the perfect moisture content for stage of growth. i'm not trying to feed the plant with this so much as keep the medium top moist.

It looks like you were right about the volume tank size. I topped the 45 gal. trash can on the 26th of Feb. and haven't touched it since. It's not even close to being empty. This is much longer than I intended. I want to “have” to top it weekly so I can maintain a fresher solution. I'll put a smaller container on it and save the 45 gal can for flower.

I've been meaning to ask you about mulching as a means of retaining moisture in flower. Do you have any ideas about what to use? I keep thinking about pine bark or straw.

I'm about to run out of flora nova bloom. Since I think I have proven this device having now harvested the first 8 plants yielding between 7.125 and 8.92 oz's each with no failures I think i'll try something else for nutrients for a while. Perhaps Jacks Professional Hydroponic 5-12-26. i'm working on a post about it now.

Here is a pic of a lower fan leaf taken yesterday from the 5th week veg plant. It was a little wilted by the time the photo was taken but you can still see the size. Again, I think this is a result of increased root zone o2.

 

[TheMonarch]

I've been meaning to ask you about mulching as a means of retaining moisture in flower. Do you have any ideas about what to use? I keep thinking about pine bark or straw.

?

This next grow I am using cheesecloth to cover the top of the media to keep it moist (above 45% moisture content). I am doing that to benefit the roots and soil food web, but should also reduce evapotranspiration (people who use peat or coir mixes should also probably use that method).

 

[delta9nxs]

cheesecloth, huh? sounds like it could work, thank you!

 

[*mistress*]

Hi, mistress!

I guess it should be called the "slightly aggressive plant killer" now.

I still don't intend to top water at all in bloom with coco. The coco plant i put into flower 2 weeks ago has not been top watered at all and is getting massive during stretch. So i guess the "pulse" set up was a response to coco's need for frequent top watering during the first week (i was doing it by hand 4 times a day) to satisfy the cec and an experiment to see if i could radically accelerate root growth during veg. After that i don't feel it is necessary. All the plants in veg have been getting some slight top watering by hand anyway. I put a 3rd coco plant into flower last night and it was huge. Once again the roots were like thick carpet at the surface.

The veg system has been consuming approx 2.77 gals per day total or 354.56 oz's. I'm still playing around with the pulse amount and interval but currently it's delivering 36 oz's per day per plant, a volume of 216 oz's per day total so approx 138 oz's per day are still being delivered by sub-irrigation. I intend to keep dialing it down a little at a time. I'm checking the medium tops for moisture at least 4 times per day right now and will keep turning it down until I get it right where I want it. One of the aussie vegetable growers using coco shows how he checks for the proper moisture content by grabbing a handful of coco off the top and squeezing it in his fist. If liquid shows between his fingers it's wet enough. Not enough to drip off but just show water.

maybe havnt posted here, but in non-time moment, prefer diy landscape fabric containers (~8gal)...
in large trough (6'x8')... fed every 24-48 hrs... never more than 1x-day...

I have 2 options for control. One is duration of event and one is interval between. So today I think i'll increase interval to 4 hours which will give me four events of 6 oz's each or 24 oz's per day per plant. So approx. 40% will be delivered by the pulse system and 60% by sub-irrigation. But really, when you think about it a part of the pulse irrigation volume is going to travel right through and then get recycled. The plant is still only going to take up so much total. It's a question of getting the perfect moisture content for stage of growth. i'm not trying to feed the plant with this so much as keep the medium top moist.

seems simplest method is to just water 1x-day...
the top of the medium does not really need to be moist... as, sure you have found, there is plenty moisture 2-6" down into the medium, even if top totally dry.

see:
GH and coir

for 1x/day watering results...

It looks like you were right about the volume tank size. I topped the 45 gal. trash can on the 26th of Feb. and haven't touched it since. It's not even close to being empty. This is much longer than I intended. I want to “have” to top it weekly so I can maintain a fresher solution. I'll put a smaller container on it and save the 45 gal can for flower.

found that if calculate ~1 gal per plant/per 24hr... that plenty.
actually, feed slightly > than this amount... there is ~1" of solution on trough basin... this amount usually drawn up by plants, or dehumidified w/in 24hrs...

so... if feed w/ 5 gal solution, w/in 24hrs... it all gone... w/ 3/4-4/5 in dehumidifier... this mean that plant has drawn up & transpired total volume of input... they drink > when temps lower...

I've been meaning to ask you about mulching as a means of retaining moisture in flower. Do you have any ideas about what to use? I keep thinking about pine bark or straw.

dont really consider that retaining moisture that important.
they seem to prefer ~30-50% media to be somewhat 'dry', or, more air content than saturation of water.

however, have used orchid/pine bark very successfully.
there is also type of coco that is mulch-like... @ regular general store. beats peat? maybe different name @ different gen home improve store.

& since already have turface, turface mixed @ 30-40%, or, top 1/3 of media, very much give plant top-aeration they seem like.

the coco retain plenty of water... so no need to retain water.
over moments, found that plants dont really like to be watered too much...

maybe dont really know what mean by 'mulch' & for what purpose?

if, to cover top of media & retain moisture... dont consider this necessary. after all, that is where the oxygen from the media escapes from; the top... & plant seems to prefer drier top media...
this how large, drier air roots for as thick-fingers, directly from trunk, out into clear air & down into damp-dier media & down into mid-wet part.

I'm about to run out of flora nova bloom. Since I think I have proven this device having now harvested the first 8 plants yielding between 7.125 and 8.92 oz's each with no failures I think i'll try something else for nutrients for a while. Perhaps Jacks Professional Hydroponic 5-12-26. i'm working on a post about it now.

too funny.... also about out of fnb
& also looked @ the hydroponic formula... no calcium included.
they recommend adding cal-nit to it. maybe stock up...

after from dongle69 on maxibloom... foundthat it work very well. no brown stains on surfaces, etc...

add calcium nitrate, potassium nitrate & magnesium sulfate to this... 98% dissolved in solution, clean, efective...

after adding cal-nit & potassium-nit, npk w/ maxibloom something like:

5-15-14
15.5-0-0-19
13.75-0-46

which, after conversions, turn into:
34.25-15-60

or, a 2-1-4

then, after reducing #'s due to oxide form listed on labels...

34.25 n - 6.5 p - 49.8 k - 24 cal - ? mg (depends on how much epsom salts added)

found that plants do like nitrogen thru-out life-cylce, so only reduce it @ week 6 or so... nitrogen required to do many things in plant... 10+% not harmful, though many 'hydro' nutes seem made so...

also, lots of emphasis on phosphorus in 'bloom' nutes, though not really required, due to other nutes containing phosphorus...

since member delta9nxs sincere about such, *mistress* relay such:

a major difference between the feeding requirements of peat- and soil-grown crops is the need for a regular supply of phosphate; this nutrient readily leaches from peat & has to be replaced to maintain adequate levels.
alternating a phosphate-containing feed (eg 1-0.5-2) w/ a standard feed, (ieg 1-0-2) supplies phosphorus thru-out the season.
phosphorus can also be supplied continuously in the form a special phosphate-containing feed, but this necessitates supplying calcium &/or magnesium in separate feeds.
always remember that concentrated solutions containing calcium, that come into contact w/ phosphate-containing solutions can result in insoluble calcium phosphate, which blocks the irrigation system.

[see phenom @ Drip clean by H&G used so that 10% runoff isn't needed., though maybe not grasped, maybe...].

likewise, magnesium sulfate should not be mixed in high concentrations w/ phospahte-containing feeds.

Here is a pic of a lower fan leaf taken yesterday from the 5th week veg plant. It was a little wilted by the time the photo was taken but you can still see the size. Again, I think this is a result of increased root zone o2.

healthy plants have healthy leaves...

can usually differentiate healthy from non-healthy leaves by the size of the outer blades, in relation to the 3-5 inner-blades.

plant is healthier & stronger when outer blades (thumb & pinky, so to post are as large as, or becoming as large as the inner blades.if they are very smaller, some type of lock out is occuring... usually corrected by cal-mag drench - separately from reg nute - just to confirm.

enjoy your garden!

 

[delta9nxs]

I've been taking care of plants almost daily and several times per day sometimes for 10 years. I've been sick and stuck at home most of the time so i didn't mind so much. This after a lifetime of physically demanding outdoor activities that i now miss very much.

But now i'm feeling good, my energy levels are coming back up and i want to get out and do some stuff, go some places, have a nice vacation once in a while.

So, i'm trying to set all this up to give me at least a week away once in a while.

I guess all your information is revenge for all my information. what goes around comes around.

But, thanks again!

I've almost got that post on Jack's done. I'll try to post it later.

 

[delta9nxs]

Nutrient ratios.

http://maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=464&submit=Go

This is a good place to start. It's not a long article and should be read. It basically is about how pk ratios of most popular “hydro” nutes were developed from field crop analyses done years ago and how newer research using plant tissue analysis is finding that k is present in over twice the ratio of p in harvested plant tissue. This also points to the fallacy of using pk boost products.

It is my belief that if you feel the need for a pk boost and see results from using it (larger buds), then you have been using a flawed nutrient regimen all along.

now
we go to:

http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/product_labels/floranova_bloom_qt.pdf

where we find the n-p-k ratio of 4-8-7 plus Ca 4, Mg 2, and S 2, all expressed as %

and then to:

http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/product_labels/maxibloom_1.5lb.pdf

where we find 5-15-14 plus Ca 5, Mg 3.5, S 4, again expressed as %

now take a look at this:

Jack's Professional 5-12-26 Hydroponic product # 77251


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS F1313
Total nitrogen (N) …………………………………………..…….. 5%
5.00% nitrate nitrogen
Available phosphate (P2O5) ……………………………………... 12%
Soluble potash (K2O) ……………………………………....…….. 26%
Magnesium (Mg), total ……………………………..………..…….. 6.3200%
6.3200% water soluble magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S) …………………………………………………………… 8.21%
8.21% combined sulfur (S)
Boron (B) ………….……………………………………………....… 0.0500%
Copper (Cu) ……………………….……………………………...… 0.0150%
0.0150% chelated copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) ………………………………………………...…..…....…. 0.3000%
0.3000% chelated iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) ……………………………….…………..….….... 0.0500%
0.0500% chelated manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) …………………..……………..………..…..….. 0.0100%
Zinc (Zn) ………………………………………..………….………... 0.0150%
0.0150% chelated zinc (Zn)
Derived from: potassium phosphate, potassium nitrate, magnesium
sulfate, boric acid, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA, zinc EDTA, copper
EDTA, ammonium molybdate
Potential Basicity: 211 lbs. Calcium carbonate equivalent per ton.
Information regarding the contents and levels of metals in this product is
available on the internet at: http://www.aapfco.org/metals.html
WARNING: This product contains Molybdenum (Mo) and may be
harmful to ruminant animals foraging on grass where applications
have been made.


Follow these steps to obtain a precipitate free solution
1. Dissolve 130 ounces of 5-12-26 Hydroponic in 1000 gallons of final feed solution. You will obtain the
following elemental PPM concentrations:
Element N P K Mg SO4 Fe Mn Zn Cu B Mo
PPM 50 52 215 63 246 3 .50 .15 .15 .50 .10
2. Dissolve any additional Epsom Salts desired into the above 1000 gallon solution before proceeding. For
most crops 50 PPM Magnesium is an adequate level in solution. To increase your Magnesium levels
dissolve 10 ounces of Epsom Salts in 1000 gallons of final feed solution to obtain 7.5 PPM additional
Magnesium.
3. Dissolve 86 ounces of Calcium Nitrate into the above 1000 gallon solution to obtain a total nutrient
concentration of 150 PPM Nitrogen and 116 PPM Calcium.
E.C at 100 ppm N = 2.10 Limit of Solubility= 3 lb/gal.


So we have Jack's Professional Hydroponic

N 5
P 12
K 26
Ca 0
Mg 6.32
S 8.21


Flora Nova Bloom

N 4
P 8
K 7
Ca 4
Mg 2
S 2


Maxibloom

N 5
P 15
K 14
Ca 5
Mg 3.5
S 4


“Although our Jack’s Classic 20-20-20 is completely water soluble - which allows all of the
nutrients to be available to your plants in a hydroponic solution - it is not ideal for a true
hydroponic growing system. This is due to the specific blend of nitrogen forms that make up our
20-20-20 formulation (as well as most retail fertilizers).
GROWING IN A SOIL (or SOILLESS) ENVIRONMENT vs. HYDROPONIC:
Jack’s 20-20-20 is best suited for roots grown in soil or soilless mix. In a soil environment, the
nitrogen forms in 20-20-20 can be easily taken up and converted to the nitrogen forms that the
plants use best. In a true hydroponic system ( water flowing environment), these nitrogen
conversions will not occur easily, and some forms of nitrogen, (like urea and ammonium) can sit
in the root zone a bit too long when certain low light or low temperature conditions arise. When
this happens, these stagnant forms of nitrogen act as a great source of food for other things like
algae, bacteria and microorganisms, causing a build-up of these materials in your hydroponic
environment. This creates a real mess and greatly reduces the effectiveness of the nutrients in
solution.
GROWING IN A TRUE HYDROPONIC SET UP:
Our researchers at J.R. Peters have a formulated a 2-step fertilization system specifically for
hydroponic applications, that will supply the ideal nutrient levels to your plants. These fertilizer
products are available in our commercial line called Jack’s Professional. Using a combination of
Jack’s Professional Hydroponic 5-12-26 and Jack’s Professional Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0, this
system can be easily customized to fit your operation, whether you grow 2 or 20,000 hydroponic
plants.
SPECIAL MIXING DIRECTIONS:
Jack’s Hydroponic formulation and Jack’s Calcium Nitrate are packaged separately, and require a
little special attention when mixing - in order to avoid forming a precipitant in the tank. These
products must be dissolved either in a two tank system or in dilute (or Ready-to-Use) quantities.
Following these specific stepwise directions is vital, along with the knowledge that these items
should NEVER be mixed in a concentrate tank together.
On a small scale, the easiest way to use our Jack’s Hydroponic System is to create a
ready-to-use solution by combining ½ teaspoon of each formulation per gallon of water - just
make sure you do not combine them in any stronger concentrations or the materials will solidify
and drop to the bottom of the solution. Also, be sure to aerate the solution with a bubbler or
change the solution every other day to maintain proper oxygen levels.
Note: An alternative to mixing the products together is to apply them separately, using one at a
time and alternating them every other feeding. This will assure that your plants are receiving the
ideal levels of nutrients.
These specialized products are available directly through the J.R. Peters Laboratory. Check out
our website www.jrpeterslab.com. Products are available in 1lb, 5lb and 25lb containers. Feel
free to place your order directly online or call the lab directly to order.
We are happy to help you with any additional questions you may have regarding your hydroponic
set up or use of Jack’s Professional products.
Happy Growing!”



“Jack’s Professional Hydroponic Formula has been designed to serve as a base foundation for hydroponic
growing. It can be manipulated in such a manner as to provide virtually any combination of nutrient levels
desired, providing the highest availability to plants, due primarily to Jack’s proven ability to remain in true
solution over long periods of time.
Jack’s Professional 5-12-26 Hydroponic
Follow these steps to obtain a precipitate free solution
1. Dissolve 130 ounces of 5-12-26 Hydroponic in 1000 gallons of final feed solution. You will
obtain the following elemental PPM concentrations:
Element N P K Mg SO4 Fe Mn Zn Cu B Mo
PPM 50 52 215 63 246 3 .50 .15 .15 .50 .10
For the most effective use of the Hydroponic formula it is essential that the nutrient content of the
irrigation water being used is known. These figures are then taken into consideration and should be
added to the distilled water figures as quotes above. This is of special importance when figuring the need
for adding more Magnesium (Mg) and Calcium (ca) depending on the needs of the crops being grown.
2. Dissolve any additional Epsom salts desired into the above 1000 gallon solution before
proceeding. For most crops 50 PPM Magnesium is an adequate level in solution. To
increase your Magnesium levels dissolve 10 ounces of Epsom salts in 1000 gallons of final
feed solution to obtain 7.5 PPM additional Magnesium and 3.00 ppm Sulfur (SO4).
IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT ANY EPSOM SALTS TO BE ADDED MUST BE ADDED TO THE
HYDROPONIC SOLUTION AND BE DISSOLVED BEFORE THE ADDITION OF CALCIUM NITRATE.
NOTE: Jack’s Hydroponic fertilizer contains NO calcium.
After Jack’s Hydroponic and any Epsom salts needed have been dissolved in the tank, proceed as
follows:
3. Dissolve 86 ounces of Calcium Nitrate into the above 1000 gallon solution to obtain a total
nutrient concentration of 150 PPM Nitrogen and 116 PPM Calcium.
Should higher Nitrogen and Potassium levels be desired, the addition of 1 ounce Potassium Nitrate per
1000 gallons will add the following concentrations:
Nitrogen -- 1.00 ppm N Potassium 2.74 ppm K
Should higher Calcium levels be desired, the addition of 1 ounce Calcium Chloride per 1000 gallons will
add the following concentrations:
Calcium as Ca – 2.09 ppm Ca
Should higher Potash levels be desired, the addition of 1 ounce Potassium Sulfate per 1000 gallons will
add the following concentrations:
Potassium as K – 3.11 ppm K
Should higher Manganese levels be desired, the addition of 1 ounce Manganese sulfate per 1000 gallons
will add the following concentrations:
Manganese as Mn – 1.87 ppm Mn
Should higher Iron levels be desired, the addition of 1 ounce of the following per 1000 gallons will add the
following concentrations:
13% Chelated Iron as Fe EDTA -- 0.975 ppm Fe
11% Chelated Iron as Fe DTPA -- 0.80 ppm Fe
6% Chelated Iron as Fe EDDHA – 0.45 ppm Fe
Jack’s Hydroponic formula is heavily buffered to produce an ideal working solution pH of between 6.00
and 6.50, but under unusual circumstances it may be necessary to adjust the solution pH up or down with
the use of mineral or organic acid complexes. Please consult water quality when choosing amount for pH
change.”


I called J.R. Peters Lab and had a nice conversation with a laboratory tech. Who repeatedly said that the product was recently developed for “small indoor growers”. I wonder what those people are growing?

They said the mixing recipe above was designed for distilled and therefore ro water as stated. They said an ever increasing number of “small indoor growers” were using ro water. They said you might want to adjust calcium input for tap water, depending on an analysis. They said the formula was based on tissue analysis. They didn't say what plant, but what do most “small indoor growers” grow?

Oh yeah, 52 bucks for a 25 lb bag, freight included. Since I still have most of a 50 lb bag of calcium nitrate and plenty of calcium chloride for flower I should be in good shape. The 6.32 % magnesium content should stop me from having to add epsom. All of the stuff above totals less than a $100 and should last years.

Later, d9

 

[*mistress*]

...the product was recently developed for “small indoor growers”. I wonder what those people are growing?

...They didn't say what plant, but what do most “small indoor growers” grow?

tomatoes & cucumbers, ornamentals, etc

 

[delta9nxs]

I've been playing around with the jack's 5-12-26, doing small mixing experiments. Their instructions show 2 mixing methods.

The first shows using ½ tsp of 5-12-26 and ½ tsp of calcium nitrate in equal physical volume per gallon of water.

I tried this several times and got 1014, 1016, and 1025 ppm at 5.0-5.2 ph. This at the .5 conversion.

The second method is for larger batches and calls for 130 oz's per 1000 gal 5-12-26 and 86 oz's calcium nitrate per 1000 gals.

I took their ppm values at this dosing and added up the individual ppm values to get a total of 846 ppm at the .5 conversion. 630 ppm for the 5-12-26 and 216 ppm for the calcium nitrate. This ph's to 5.3-5.4 in ro water.

I mixed up several batches by just using ppm values and no other measurement and was able to consistently hit the target.

By taking an unknown quantity of ro water, adding 5-12-26 in small increments until I hit 630, then adding dry calcium nitrate in small increments until I hit the 846 figure, I was able to repeatedly hit the approx numbers without any precipitation occurring. I checked the clear one gal containers this morning and there is still no precip.

This gives the following;

N 150
P 52
K 215
Ca 116
Mg 63

If I wanted 770 ppm, which is what I have been running in the ppk's, I could take .86 of the recommended dose of each preparation and get 542 ppm 5-12-26 and 186 ppm calcium nitrate.

But I think i'll try their 846 ppm first to see which way it goes.

This looks like a good veg formula but too much N for flower. In bloom i'm thinking 650 ppm 5-12-26 and 120 ppm calcium chloride. Might have to do some tweaking.

My 3-11 veg system readings;

volume tank 773 @ 5.5
control bucket 764 @ 5.9
pump bucket 766 @ 6.0
res # 1 777 @ 5.9
2 779 @ 6.0
3 751 @ 6.0
4 740 @ 6.0
5 774 @ 5.9
6 769 @ 5.8

This gives us an average in the reservoirs of 765 ppm.

So we now have 13 days of aggressive growth in the veg system with no liquid added after the 26th of feb. The system was filled with 770 ppm solution. There has been no run off and no change outs.

Looks like this system is very stable

 

[delta9nxs]

here is this weeks plant. #9. it was 40/40/20 perlite/turface/coco. a nice big plant.

last weeks plant went 8.39 oz's.

one more plant, #10, and then we are into the all media wicks.

 

[delta9nxs]

Finally used up all but about five gals of the 45 gal volume tank. I think it would have gone 19-20 days without having to top it. Long time. So, I dumped the balance. And dumped all the other containers in the veg system. Scrubbed everything with a brush and detergent. The flora nova bloom really leaves a scum on everything. About 4 hrs work.

I also checked tds and ph and got readings similar to my last report. Reservoirs averaged 762 ppm before being dumped.

I refilled the system with the Jack's 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. 630 ppm jack's and 216 ppm calcium nitrate. 846 total @ 5.2 ph in ro water. So we'll see which way it goes.

Jack's is very clean. Instantly dissolves. In fact it goes into solution faster than maxibloom, which for me required a second stirring about 10 minutes after the first.

I think you aero heads, sprayer and dripper types should take a look at this stuff. It is designed to not clog anything.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

maybe havnt posted here, but in non-time moment, prefer diy landscape fabric containers (~8gal)...
in large trough (6'x8')... fed every 24-48 hrs... never more than 1x-day...

This sounds cool. I have been making diy pots for guerilla grows out of landscape fabric. The soft kinda perforated stuff. Think it looks kinda like the stuff used for smart pots...

Anyhoo i have a vert system currently mothballed but want to use some of the concepts here... thinking of a 3 sided milk crate thingo with steps and troughs... all handwaterd and kept as KISS as poss

Heres some root porn for ya!

 

[*mistress*]

This sounds cool. I have been making diy pots for guerilla grows out of landscape fabric. The soft kinda perforated stuff. Think it looks kinda like the stuff used for smart pots...

Anyhoo i have a vert system currently mothballed but want to use some of the concepts here... thinking of a 3 sided milk crate thingo with steps and troughs... all handwaterd and kept as KISS as poss

Heres some root porn for ya!

lots of air gets thru. roots like.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey, silversurfer! That's really cool! I think you are probably the first person to show a pot plant in one of these. Not that i mind you posting here but you should start a thread on this.

This is a great illustration of how the plants requirements for oxygen can be met by the plant adapting to whatever o2 source is presented.

It is obvious that the water in your container is all but anaerobic at this point. Yet the plants roots are healthy. Thick and white. The oxygen can only be coming from the small amount of air entering the trashcan as the water level falls.

Do you mind telling us how long your nutrient solution has been in the can? Whether it has been topped or not? What your high ambient temps have been? It would also be interesting to know what your nutrient solution temps have been, if you've tracked it.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Hey D9 yeah i thought bout starting a thread but i figure its too late in season to get any decent results... just an experiment and then if succesful go hard next season! Will start a thread then.

But this is no longer academic. It works !!!

The bins still smell nice. The touch of h202 seems to have done the trick. Not sure how much oxygen it releases?

The nutrient was mixed in when the plants 1st went in. Maybe 4 - 5 weeks ago. No topping. Highest temp was prob 32C. No idea what the temps would be in bin. They have all been left out in the bush. I do have one in my garden that is just taking off now and was put in last.

Cheers