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container ?
- Thread starter mofreak
- Start date
D
Danseur
If new to growing soil, imo go with containers that have holes. You will want the ability to water with run-off if this is your first go around with a new method.
Good luck, and keep in mind plant and root size to container size.
Using containers with no holes can be done, but closed container gardens might be a little difficult to learn soil on.
Good luck, and keep in mind plant and root size to container size.
Using containers with no holes can be done, but closed container gardens might be a little difficult to learn soil on.
D
Danseur
yes overwatering can cause trenchfoot and other issues with your feed program.
imo overwatering is not as much of a concern as is gauging and giving proper feed. the holes allow runoff and the ability to leach nutrients from the soil if they accumulate and become toxic. if growing in a closed container imo one would simply need to have a plant they are familiar with, as to dose the food properly throughout its life cycle (or provide an adequate pre-mix soil with ammendments). imo closed container gardens should be totally organic but doing this on a small scale all while maintaining top quality can be difficult to master. In nature, outside the ground/soil is one large closed container. It's buffer is in its size.
Again this is just my opinion, based on organics working in symbiosis with each other. The beneficial bacteria are working in conjunction with the roots, and the list goes on. If growing a closed container with bottled ferts chelted and ready for uptake without the beneficial bacteria, the concern for overfeeding starts to become a problem.
You can burn plants in organics also, this is quite a tricky subject and I think I am getting off topic.
imo overwatering is not as much of a concern as is gauging and giving proper feed. the holes allow runoff and the ability to leach nutrients from the soil if they accumulate and become toxic. if growing in a closed container imo one would simply need to have a plant they are familiar with, as to dose the food properly throughout its life cycle (or provide an adequate pre-mix soil with ammendments). imo closed container gardens should be totally organic but doing this on a small scale all while maintaining top quality can be difficult to master. In nature, outside the ground/soil is one large closed container. It's buffer is in its size.
Again this is just my opinion, based on organics working in symbiosis with each other. The beneficial bacteria are working in conjunction with the roots, and the list goes on. If growing a closed container with bottled ferts chelted and ready for uptake without the beneficial bacteria, the concern for overfeeding starts to become a problem.
You can burn plants in organics also, this is quite a tricky subject and I think I am getting off topic.
darksith
Member
no need to comment, hes nailed it. I would recommend always using containers with holes for run off. One thing, is to have a container to catch the run off, and let that run off sit for a couple of hours before removing it. This will allow the soil to uptake any extra water that is needed after you water, and absorbtion starts to take effect spreading the water around.
little will
Member
yeah you need holes, how can you flush if something goes wrong, and flushing near harvest time as well is a must
BrotherGanja
Member
It is good to have a pot that has drainage of some sort. Personally my favorite is the Smart Pot it is a fabric container with no need for holes because it breathes and allows water to pass through it. There are two major factors why I like these over the standard gardening pots, first they allow the roots to breathe and give it maximum circulation in the soil for the roots can get oxygen. Second the roots don't get root bound cause they basically top themselves when the hit the wall of the smart pot. If I was you I would invest in some Smart Pots, they aren't too cheap but they are reusable and will last for a long time so you will not have to buy more. Good luck on growing. I also would suggest organic cause it is more efficient in every-way plus it is making this sacred plant a true medicine.
D
Danseur
What does dampening have to do with this other than seedling stage? If you know more about this please share.
Yes, trenchfoot is a non specific horticulture term that some "backyard bob farmers" like myself use to describe stagnant and soggy soil's and mediums. I like to use trenchfoot because it can apply to symptoms not limited to root rot. Keeping a soggy and sopping overly wet medium is not just in fear of root rot, but also affects the normal rates or function within the plant even before rot becomes a problem. It also invites a host of pests and can just be a mess of a problem.
My dream goal is a self contained greenhouse garden that is a mix all organic and only needs the occasional boost of compost tea and simply water. This is very far off, and almost not possible in my realm of possibilities at this time.
Yes, trenchfoot is a non specific horticulture term that some "backyard bob farmers" like myself use to describe stagnant and soggy soil's and mediums. I like to use trenchfoot because it can apply to symptoms not limited to root rot. Keeping a soggy and sopping overly wet medium is not just in fear of root rot, but also affects the normal rates or function within the plant even before rot becomes a problem. It also invites a host of pests and can just be a mess of a problem.
My dream goal is a self contained greenhouse garden that is a mix all organic and only needs the occasional boost of compost tea and simply water. This is very far off, and almost not possible in my realm of possibilities at this time.
Roots need oxygen. Transplant too low in the soil, the plant will stall for 2-3 weeks as it grows air roots towards the surface. Some (non mj) plants are so hungry for air they build roots above the ground.
DWC can live in water 24/7 because of the high volume of O2 that is constantly pumped into the water. The water itself becomes the 02 delivery system.
With soil, you want to flood and drain. The flood forces out stale water and air. Because nature abhors a vacuum, draining water sucks fresh O2 in from the top. No holes means no drain means no O2 to the roots. No O2 to the roots is bad mojo!!!
Water till water comes out the holes. When the obvious draining stops, lift the pot and note it's weight. Don't water again until you see signs of wilting. Note how many days have passed, pick up the pot and note the dry weight. Now you have an idea of how long to go between watering and what a dry pot feels like. Now you'll be able to judge when to water by the weight of the pot when you lift it. I wouldn't let it wilt every time, just the first time as a learning experience.
DWC can live in water 24/7 because of the high volume of O2 that is constantly pumped into the water. The water itself becomes the 02 delivery system.
With soil, you want to flood and drain. The flood forces out stale water and air. Because nature abhors a vacuum, draining water sucks fresh O2 in from the top. No holes means no drain means no O2 to the roots. No O2 to the roots is bad mojo!!!
Water till water comes out the holes. When the obvious draining stops, lift the pot and note it's weight. Don't water again until you see signs of wilting. Note how many days have passed, pick up the pot and note the dry weight. Now you have an idea of how long to go between watering and what a dry pot feels like. Now you'll be able to judge when to water by the weight of the pot when you lift it. I wouldn't let it wilt every time, just the first time as a learning experience.
reckon
Member
hey
hey
you most definitely need drainage holes.. the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
hey
you most definitely need drainage holes.. the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
D
Danseur
I respectfully disagree freezerboy, not with your logic about roots needing air but about containers with no holes being able to provide it.
As I tried to note above it is extremely difficult to achieve, especially on a small scale. The hard and difficult part is to maintain proper and adequate watering with a supreme reliability. Because with a closed container garden, there is no buffer for this and any mistake leads for possible problems. The benefit imo for these closed organic gardens is they are very cost efficient, but to execute and still maintain quality and efficiency on par with the other systems and bottled nutrients is a personal trade off.
The thing about plants and oxygen I would like to add is that it is not lacking in a proper closed container garden, if this were not true then outside in nature plants surely would perish.
Plants source oxygen in a few different ways, and can adapt to suit its needs best. Firstly all plants imo are unique, but still very similar on many levels. In a closed container system plants source oxygen at night from the atmosphere. The stomata serves a purpose to not only source co2 but also to source oxygen. There are both oxygen and co2 fixing enzymes near (microscopic level) the stomata to preform this task.
During the day the plant sources its oxygen in a different manner, by synthesizing it! Plants really are factories beyond our wildest dreams, and amaze me this I can not deny. During the day when sunlight is present and photosynthesis is taking place, oxygen is being synthesized by the plant. Photons are the energy used from the sunlight to split the water molecule from h2o into h+ and oh-. Consequently 4OH give 2h2o and o2 producing oxygen. The plant then uses it to its preference.
This is why when supplementing enriched co2 it allows the plant to metabolize at a much higher rate, much of this has to do with the oxygen it is able to create in the process. It all works together at such a dialed in approach to organics and minimal waste.
Again I did not say it was easy, but it is not impossible and imo the goal to strive for. Then again goals are totally subjective and unique to the individual so I will close with do whatever works for you and your preferences. More than one way to skin a cat.
Plants also receive oxygen from the root zone as freezerboy mentioned, I think this process is called diffusion. Forgive my ignorance on the subject. In a closed container garden a specific requirement would need to be a nice mix of soil, with plenty of aeration that is a requirement I will not deny. This is not difficult to accomplish, but unlike pots with drainage holes it will leave for very little room of error or a buffer zone. I seem to be repeating myself on things and getting a little medicated so I will leave with just one point.
A healthy plant in a closed container garden will fill its dead air spaces in the rootzone by efficiently using up the water given to it drawing more (fresh) air into the rootzone to replace it. The thing about oxygen in the rootzone is that air is not pure oxygen that the plant requires, so it is less oxygen the plant gets from this method of sourcing oxygen; though still a way for it to source its oxygen.
Hard to do yes, impossible no. Totally badass, you bet!
I apologize if this has been taken a little off topic to the OP. I still vote for containers with holes, for you and I alike! lol
As I tried to note above it is extremely difficult to achieve, especially on a small scale. The hard and difficult part is to maintain proper and adequate watering with a supreme reliability. Because with a closed container garden, there is no buffer for this and any mistake leads for possible problems. The benefit imo for these closed organic gardens is they are very cost efficient, but to execute and still maintain quality and efficiency on par with the other systems and bottled nutrients is a personal trade off.
The thing about plants and oxygen I would like to add is that it is not lacking in a proper closed container garden, if this were not true then outside in nature plants surely would perish.
Plants source oxygen in a few different ways, and can adapt to suit its needs best. Firstly all plants imo are unique, but still very similar on many levels. In a closed container system plants source oxygen at night from the atmosphere. The stomata serves a purpose to not only source co2 but also to source oxygen. There are both oxygen and co2 fixing enzymes near (microscopic level) the stomata to preform this task.
During the day the plant sources its oxygen in a different manner, by synthesizing it! Plants really are factories beyond our wildest dreams, and amaze me this I can not deny. During the day when sunlight is present and photosynthesis is taking place, oxygen is being synthesized by the plant. Photons are the energy used from the sunlight to split the water molecule from h2o into h+ and oh-. Consequently 4OH give 2h2o and o2 producing oxygen. The plant then uses it to its preference.
This is why when supplementing enriched co2 it allows the plant to metabolize at a much higher rate, much of this has to do with the oxygen it is able to create in the process. It all works together at such a dialed in approach to organics and minimal waste.
Again I did not say it was easy, but it is not impossible and imo the goal to strive for. Then again goals are totally subjective and unique to the individual so I will close with do whatever works for you and your preferences. More than one way to skin a cat.
Plants also receive oxygen from the root zone as freezerboy mentioned, I think this process is called diffusion. Forgive my ignorance on the subject. In a closed container garden a specific requirement would need to be a nice mix of soil, with plenty of aeration that is a requirement I will not deny. This is not difficult to accomplish, but unlike pots with drainage holes it will leave for very little room of error or a buffer zone. I seem to be repeating myself on things and getting a little medicated so I will leave with just one point.
A healthy plant in a closed container garden will fill its dead air spaces in the rootzone by efficiently using up the water given to it drawing more (fresh) air into the rootzone to replace it. The thing about oxygen in the rootzone is that air is not pure oxygen that the plant requires, so it is less oxygen the plant gets from this method of sourcing oxygen; though still a way for it to source its oxygen.
Hard to do yes, impossible no. Totally badass, you bet!
I apologize if this has been taken a little off topic to the OP. I still vote for containers with holes, for you and I alike! lol
BrotherGanja
Member
I still think Smart Pots are the best way to go. Even if they don't have holes, the holes are not needed with smart pots because water and air can pass through the entire pot so you can get the same drainage as a normal pot just more breathing room for the roots.
Outdoor plants have an entire planet to drain to. They drain non-stop 24/7, 365.25 days per year. Not true with Solo cups. You can't compare the two.
D
Danseur
Freezerboy, part of this is truth. I will say again, closed containers are not easy to achieve but they are very possible and they can provide plants with plenty of oxygen.
The earth drains yes, but within itself. It does not drain to another planet. It is just one very large closed container. Using your reference to a solo cup, one can easily overwater a closed container solo cup because of the lack of buffer in terms of size and makeup compared to the earth. The solocup is very small and allows no room for error where the earth is very large and it's makeup has a vast system for water and nutrient storage as well as the ability to source these from far away places. If one were to overwater the earth like the solocup this would be similar to a natural disaster (or manmade), or even simply natural flood occurs in an area not capable to deal with the excess water and nutrients fast enough. This does happen, and vast areas have been wiped out (only to grow again) by mother nature "overwatering". Massive flood destroys crops, but the next season if not flooded is usually very fruitful after the waters eventually recede leaving newly deposited minerals and nutrients.
Some places of mother earth can get overwhelmed with water and not drain it within itself fast enough, just like a solo cup. The difference is milliliters compared to millions of liters.
Now with that ratio in mind let us make a mix of medium in a solo cup with no drainage holes akin to the earth. Is the mix some clay and mud, of course not. Some places for air, water storage, ect. A nice layer of hydroton at the bottom diverse like the earth. Some pockets within the body of the mix just like the earth. Now the buffer is smaller, but a plant can be grown in it.
If you would like to continue this please feel free to PM, I do not want to take the OP thread for just you and I discussing a topic. It is nice to be part of a civil discussion, thank you. love+respect+compassion
The earth drains yes, but within itself. It does not drain to another planet. It is just one very large closed container. Using your reference to a solo cup, one can easily overwater a closed container solo cup because of the lack of buffer in terms of size and makeup compared to the earth. The solocup is very small and allows no room for error where the earth is very large and it's makeup has a vast system for water and nutrient storage as well as the ability to source these from far away places. If one were to overwater the earth like the solocup this would be similar to a natural disaster (or manmade), or even simply natural flood occurs in an area not capable to deal with the excess water and nutrients fast enough. This does happen, and vast areas have been wiped out (only to grow again) by mother nature "overwatering". Massive flood destroys crops, but the next season if not flooded is usually very fruitful after the waters eventually recede leaving newly deposited minerals and nutrients.
Some places of mother earth can get overwhelmed with water and not drain it within itself fast enough, just like a solo cup. The difference is milliliters compared to millions of liters.
Now with that ratio in mind let us make a mix of medium in a solo cup with no drainage holes akin to the earth. Is the mix some clay and mud, of course not. Some places for air, water storage, ect. A nice layer of hydroton at the bottom diverse like the earth. Some pockets within the body of the mix just like the earth. Now the buffer is smaller, but a plant can be grown in it.
If you would like to continue this please feel free to PM, I do not want to take the OP thread for just you and I discussing a topic. It is nice to be part of a civil discussion, thank you. love+respect+compassion
I'm sure a closed system can be done but, it's far outside the scope of the OPs question. The planet drains water into water tables and underground rivers that eventually return it to the surface where it evaporates, condenses and falls again. There's a cycle involved Not true with undrained Solo cups.
Unless you're an expert (and I think we can conclude the OP is not) small pots with no drainage is a fast track to disaster.
Unless you're an expert (and I think we can conclude the OP is not) small pots with no drainage is a fast track to disaster.
D
Danseur
I doubt you read my postings because I have been more than clear. Yes there is a cycle, but when you want to be mother earth you are the cycle. I have continued to say in each posting that is the difficult part to dial in. You as the grower control the cycle, including the mix of the medium and planning in accordance to plant preferences.
I said in my first post to the OP go with drainage holes, and have continued to say I am not an expert at growing closed container gardens. Where have I said otherwise? I have more than once it would be very hard to dial in and still maintain the quality and quantity that is easily attainable with drainage holes and that it is my dream goal, not current method. I try to explain both sides for the OP so they can decide for themselves what will be best. Both for now and for future planning of their hobby gardens.
Are you mad that I corrected your information in relation to plants and sourcing oxygen? Fine, but do not spread falsehoods that closed containers can not grow plants proper. You do not have to agree, but the thought of total efficiency and no waste is a dream of mine. It does not have to be yours. Be well, I think I have been more than clear. love+respect+compassion
I said in my first post to the OP go with drainage holes, and have continued to say I am not an expert at growing closed container gardens. Where have I said otherwise? I have more than once it would be very hard to dial in and still maintain the quality and quantity that is easily attainable with drainage holes and that it is my dream goal, not current method. I try to explain both sides for the OP so they can decide for themselves what will be best. Both for now and for future planning of their hobby gardens.
Are you mad that I corrected your information in relation to plants and sourcing oxygen? Fine, but do not spread falsehoods that closed containers can not grow plants proper. You do not have to agree, but the thought of total efficiency and no waste is a dream of mine. It does not have to be yours. Be well, I think I have been more than clear. love+respect+compassion
