deficiencys or nuteburns?

[Bud-O-Phile]

first of all, this is my first post so i'd like to give a warm greeting to ya all fellow icmag users.

now.. lets skip the formalities to stay on topic. im having a slight problem in my grow room and i don't want this epidemic to spread. i have read mynamestiches guide to sick plants (which is really comprehensive, big props to u!) but regardless i'm not sure whats bugging my precious plants and since this is my first own grow i feel i could use some of your help.

so heres the situation.. my sick plants are about 2-2,5weeks old and they are housed in approx. 1litre and a 11litre pots (that would be around 0.25 and 2.5gallons for u livin in the states.) the soil i'm using is biobizz all-mix which should be pretty buffed up in nutes and shit and last for a bit longer while than this. temps are around 20c at night and around 25-28c with lights on (400w HPS with 18/6 lightcycle.) humidity is around 30-60% and to keep dem ferocious mites away i'm spraying my babys everyday with water and every third day i add some seaweed (5ml/1l as it says in the bottle) and some ghe grow (0.5ml/1l just a hunch) to the solution. the day before yesterday i also started giving em hesi complex tnt in full strenght (5ml/1l.)

i have nine different strains growing right now and everyone else seems to be doing just fine but swazi skunks are showing up some yellowing on the outer parts of the leafs (yeah, i know.. possible magnesium def.) although the veins tend to stay green no matter how yellow it gets around them. the problems start from the older leaves and they work their way quickly to the younger ones, it started about a week ago and the nutes i gave em couple of days ago don't seem to help at all.. heck, they might even boost it so i haven't dared to give them more until i hear your wiser opinions.

representing teh pictures!







here's a full view of the growtent for comparison



and here's sum ruderalis skunk showing up some nitrogen def.?



thanks for your help in advance. ja kaikille suomalaisille vielä erikoisterkut!

 

[sirgrassalot]

magnesium or zinc deficiencies hmmmm I would spray with water & Epsom salt also stick some galvanized nails in the pots. "A Zinc deficiency is most common under excessive phosphorus conditions."

 

[Queso45]

Edit: I now believe that is a magnesium def also.

You can post URLs and Pics as soon as you have made 2 posts I believe. It's either 2 or 5...

It looks like you've done your research, bud-o-phile... you have a very nice setup. One of the plant whisperers will definitely be here soon to help you with your problems.

Welcome to ICmag

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes, magneisum deficiency going, get some epsom salts or dolomite lime put into the mixture. 1 tsp per gallon of epsom salts, every time you feed your plants.
Your nutrients are lacking magnesium.

9 different strains is a lot of strains, not all need the same care so you need to keep track on paper or notebook what you give them and when and how often.

You also need to get a pH tester to ensure pH is stable. Digital Ph pen is best money can buy.

 

[Bud-O-Phile]

big props to you all for helping a newbie out. im off to buy some epsom salt from my local pharmacy right now.

mynamestich: yeah, i know 9different strains is a little burden for inexperienced grower but all the other strains seem to be doing just fine with the nutes im giving em right now. can i just spray the leaves with that epsom salt and should i degrate the 1tsp per gallon formula when doing so? and yay, i know i should buy pH/EC meter but im pretty broke right now so i wont be using any hifi-gadgets in this grow.

i transplanted some of the biggest plants in 0.25gal pots to bigger ones just a while ago and noticed they have developed quite nice root system. your opinions how long can i keep em vegging in those small pots before switching to 12/12.. i dont have enough room to fit them all in bigger pots so im going to transplant the rest after sexing.

i'll post some pictures in a couple of days to show if the epsom salt will cure those poor little swazi skunks. thanks again.

 

[Queso45]

If you don't have money to buy a PH pen, you can buy cheap PH droppers and pool test strips for like 5 bucks and its good for like 100 tests. The pool test strips are more accurate than the drops, but the PH pen is the most accurate.

I use the dropper and pool test strips for sort of a double confirmation

 

[MynameStitch]

can i just spray the leaves with that epsom salt and should i degrate the 1tsp per gallon formula when doing so? and yay, i know i should buy pH/EC meter but im pretty broke right now so i wont be using any hifi-gadgets in this grow.

You can for now, but next time you water or feed your plants you should add some to the water, when you do mix very very good and if you are not using RO water, ensure it sits out 24 hours before putting any nutrients in there, you want the chlorine to dissipate.

Queso is very correct about the pH meter deal too.

transplanted some of the biggest plants in 0.25gal pots to bigger ones just a while ago and noticed they have developed quite nice root system. your opinions how long can i keep em vegging in those small pots before switching to 12/12.. i dont have enough room to fit them all in bigger pots so im going to transplant the rest after sexing.

Then don't let them veg long if you don't have the room for them, because in 12/12 they double there growth in just 4 weeks.
You want 1 foot tall plant in a 1 gallon size pot minimum, this is the least amount you can have to avoid having any nutrient problems and absorption issues.

I would also ensure your plants are not stressed or have any nutrient deficiencies before putting them into flowering, doing so will result in a smaller yield and the a slightly longer flowering time, due the plants having to recover while in flowering.
Also make sure you don't switch over to bloom ferts in the first week of flowering, use veg ferts as the plants don't switch over to bloom mode right away.

 

[HeadyPete]

Epsom salts work but I prefer a calmag type product to also give the ever important calcium, plus bonus iron.

Of course if you need sulphur, stick with the epsom but easy on this as they are salts and can buildup and affect your plants.

 

[Bud-O-Phile]

okay, had a long break from posting but im back on track w/ some interesting looking "troubles" again. didn't find epsom salts anywhere during my last grows and still haven't but i started using different nutes which contains more calcium and magnesium and since then haven't had any troubles up to this point. didn't want to start a new thread even though i'm not sure if these problems i'm having are caused by deficiency nor nuteburn but here we go.

so lets get started shall we? right now i have 5different strains going on this time and there's something curiously wrong with one of em.. two femaleseeds northern lights to be precise. i started growing them under four 18w fluorescent tubes in my kitchen so the humidity was around 20% and the temps were around 18c.. not the most optimal environment. the first mistake was overwatering them before i went on vacation but the other strains didn't mind these same conditions at all.

well, they grew in my kitchen for about 2weeks in 1litre containers filled with seedling-soil (very inadequate on nutes) before i got a new darkroom for them w/ 400w cooltube-set. it has been 3weeks in their new environment and they are both showing some neat camouflage splotches all over their leafs and im wondering why might that be. i transplanted them in their final 17l pots filled with decent soil a week ago and i haven't fed them with anything else than ½ strength algamic and pH-neutral tap water. here's how they look.

before moving to darkroom

18days later under 400w MH (1week in bigger pots)

they're slowly beginning to heal from their misery, the new shoots look healthy green but it's impossible to tell at this point cause the last ones also looked healthy but when they got bigger the splotches became visible. i would really like to fix this problem as soon as possible cause the only reason im still going 18/6 lightcycle is because of these two plants. for a comparison here's a white widow planted about 4-5days later that has grown under the exact same conditions and is already showing up some N-def

white widow. i have now topped her twice to keep the height at approx same level but this mofo still keeps overgrowing the untopped NLs in height

 

[MynameStitch]

That looks very similar to a zinc problem....... not saying it is; but I need a lot more information before I can help out....
SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[SouthrnPrideX]

"WOW"

 

[Bud-O-Phile]

How long has this problem been going on? since birth, about 5weeks
What STRAIN are you growing? femaleseeds - northern lights
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) both are from seeds
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? a week in a more nute rich soil, theres about 30% clay pebbles and 10% perlite to make it more fluffy
How Tall are the plants? 10 to 13cm
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) just plain plant and and watch em grow
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 17litres per each
What Nutrient's are you using? no real nutes yet, just bio bizz algamic fortifier since the soil should still be rich in nutes and theres plenty of it
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? haven't pH'd the soil but the water im giving is very close to neutral and soil according to manufacturer is only a slight on the acidic side (strips used)
How often are you watering? 2 times a week, little less than 0.75l at a time
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? yesterday with 4ml of algamic for 1.5l of water
What size bulb are you using? 400w metal halide with cooltube
What is the distance to the canopy? 50-60cm
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) drops around 30% during night and rockets to 60% when i start spraying with lights on (plain water)
What is the canopy temperature? sufficient
What is the Day/Night Temp? 24-26c/17-19c
What is the current Air Flow? 355cfm fan at about 20% power
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running? exhaust running 24/7 and there's no intake.. plenty of underpressure to keep the air changing
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? heh.. wet when watered, i let it dry so that my index finger doesn't feel any moisture when i jam it in the soil before watering again
Is your water HARD or SOFT? dunno
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no.. would like to top it once before putting to flowering but i can only veg 'em for another week or two so i think i'll let them grow au naturelle
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? haven't seen any type of nasty fuckers, one housefly but i killed it with my BARE HANDS! *grrrr*

 

[hazydays]

Did you give them some Epsom Salts? The last pic has a general lightening that looks like a Sulfur def. The sulfate in the Mg Sulfate(epsoms) will be good for that. Why don't you give them some nutes.

 

[MynameStitch]

what soil mixture did these grow in, one thing is the mixture when they were seedlings looked very saturated.

Did you water the entire pot before leaving?

 

[Bud-O-Phile]

things are finally looking better, these next pairs of fan leafs as seen from the last pictures seem to be evenly green to call 'em healthy. gonna give these girls a shy amount of nutritions tomorrow to see how well they respond

Stitch, the first soil mixture was some type of seedling soil: herbal soil as freely translated from the package and it really lacked the proper nutritions for this fine weed to grow. i had about 40% percent perlite there also so the first watering i did fucked them up real good cuz the soil was well saturated even after 1.5weeks cause i overdid it so bad not wanting them to dry up during my vacation. im not 100% sure they've fully recovered from the shock but lets hope so, at least now the roots have plenty of room to play and the soil im using this moment is much more plentiful on the nutes

 

[MynameStitch]

You used RO water or tap water?

Have those leaves stayed green on the plant since they been in that weak mixture? are the ones that got camo on them, have the patches went away?

 

[Carl Carlson]

but swazi skunks are showing up some yellowing on the outer parts of the leafs (yeah, i know.. possible magnesium def.) although the veins tend to stay green no matter how yellow it gets around them. the problems start from the older leaves and they work their way quickly to the younger ones, it started about a week ago and the nutes i gave em couple of days ago don't seem to help at all.. heck, they might even boost it so i haven't dared to give them more until i hear your wiser opinions

IMO, every question about plant nutrient deficiencies should begin with the sharing of that information.

Diagnosing is usually pretty simple once you know the difference between the mobile and immobile nutrients.

If you're sure about it starting with the lower leaves and the not the middle, than most likely it's a lack or a lockout of Mg, not Zinc.

starting point:

 

[L-Immortal]

^^^ Hey Carl props on that handy little cheat sheet ^^^