Yield problem with soil..

[mad librettist]

Try adding some molasses at the end for even more sweetness and depth in the flavor

that's an old wive's tale. Luckily though, your senses of taste and smell are highly influenced by the story you tell yourself about food, wine, or smoke. Which is a good thing IMO, not to be ashamed of.

I was just reading teaming with microbes. Molasses just increases total microbial biomass (bacteria mostly). That raises pH slightly, and increases predator activity if protozoans are present (they should be). Increased predator activity (eating bacteria) means more predator poop, which is includes mineralized N.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "flushing" crowd claims N at the end ruins a crop. So either they are wrong (quite possible), you are wrong (also possible), or I have misunderstood the whole thing (very possible).

Let's be clear though, that your plant does not drink sugar through a straw, but rather makes its own from light, water, and CO2, and the sugar it trades for nutrients would be competing for attention with molasses. So you would get more N, and less of the nutrients your plant was trading for. Further, ever smoked sugar? It's not sweet! i suspect what we call "sweet" in smoke has nothing to do with sugar. It's something you smell, just like 99% of the other flavors you know. The only things you taste are bitter, salt, sweet (actual sugar or other sweet tasting compound), sour, and I think umami is also on the tongue.

I say, leave the molasses alone unless you need it to balance your microherd.

 

[chef]

The old wivestales is... that its an old wivestale...

2tsp of Blackstrap contains:

carbohydrates 8.31 g
sugar - total 5.85 g
monosaccharides 2.09 g
disaccharides 3.68 g
other carbs 2.46 g
water 3.92 g
ash 1.12 g

riboflavin - B2 0.01 mg
niacin - B3 0.15 mg
vitamin B6 0.10 mg
folate 0.14 mcg
pantothenic acid 0.12 mg

calcium 117.53 mg
copper 0.28 mg
iron 2.39 mg
magnesium 29.38 mg
manganese 0.36 mg
phosphorus 5.47 mg
potassium 340.57 mg
selenium 2.43 mcg
sodium 7.52 mg
zinc 0.14 mg

Grabbed the above off the whfoods site, should be fairly accurate.

I purposely crash my herd at the end with extra Molasses, bennie genocide lol You just need to use it sparingly in early to mid grow, so your populations don't hit critical mass & crash too early.

You've hit the perfect N ratio "for your strain", when you have some nice golden fading/fall colors at harvest time. No early yellowing or dark green at harvest. I like to see it start around day 45 on a 60 day strain.

CalMagPlus? BSM has Ca, Mg & Iron, which is the "Plus" in CMP & a real bitch to get to your plants safely if in shortage, caustic stuff.

You know all those big K bloom boosters? Well look at the Potassium content above

I could go on, but your plants should speak for themselves. Mine do, loud n clear. Plus, it costs like $15 for a 5gal bucket

my 2 pesos

 

[gramma watt]

Espoma is good stuff

Espoma is good stuff

Looks like it will be a nice big yield...espoma plantone..nuttin but water. i did have pics up on here , but pulled em due to no replies.

We just mixed it in 1/25 with the soilless mix...and are now using alaska MorBloom 0-10-10..all cheap ferts easily found at Home Depot...

Here is what is in it...
ESPOMA PLANTONE 5-3-3

Total Nitrogen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.0%
0.4%. . . . Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.6%. . . . Water Soluble Nitrogen
3.0%. . . . Water Insoluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0%
Calcium (Ca) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0%
Magnesium (Mg). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.0%
0.6%. . . . Water Soluble Magnesium
Sulfur (S). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.0%
Derived from: Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized
Poultry Manure, Cocoa Meal, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal,
Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Sulfate of
Potash Magnesia.
*Contains 3.0% Slow Release Nitrogen.
Non Plant Food Ingredients:
Contains 3,804,705 colony forming units (CFU’s) per lb.
(253,647 CFU’s per lb. of each of the following 15 species):
Acidovorax facillis Marinibacillus marinus
Arthrobacter agilis Paenibacillus lentimorbus
Bacillus licheniformis Paenibacillis polymyxa
Bacillus megaterium Pseudomonas alcaligenes
Bacillus oleronius Pseudomonas chlororaphis
Bacillus pumilis Pseudomonas putida
Bacillus subtilis Rhodococcus rhodochorus
Bacillus thuringiensis
While fertilizer materials have unlimited shelf life, the
beneficial microbes in this product are best used within two
years of the production date (see side panel for production
date). After that time their numbers may be reduced.

 

[a'muse]

that's an old wive's tale. Luckily though, your senses of taste and smell are highly influenced by the story you tell yourself about food, wine, or smoke. Which is a good thing IMO, not to be ashamed of.

People who know nothing about the molasses added at the end have noted an increase in flavor/sweetness. This was with a well know cut. I will clarify and say that I don't think the molasses it's self is adding sweetness to the pot, like adding sugar to coffee, but IS affecting the sweetness in some other way. Somehow, molasses is shall we say, influencing bioflavonoids albeit indirectly.
I've been doing this long enough not to be fooled by "wives tales"
I am however a sucker for wives tails

 

[CannaExists]

I like the sound of keeping molasses in teas, with the occasional molasses-water given directly to the plants.

 

[mad librettist]

People who know nothing about the molasses added at the end have noted an increase in flavor/sweetness. This was with a well know cut. I will clarify and say that I don't think the molasses it's self is adding sweetness to the pot, like adding sugar to coffee, but IS affecting the sweetness in some other way. Somehow, molasses is shall we say, influencing bioflavonoids albeit indirectly.
I've been doing this long enough not to be fooled by "wives tales"
I am however a sucker for wives tails

I would venture a guess that those people can sense your own expectations, maybe on an unconscious level. I would not start assuming you are above old wive's tales. I am not, for one. I am highly susceptible. That's because traditional practices often turn out to be right, and science only figures it out later. But thinking you are smarter than that is a recipe for eventual personal disaster. Nobody is smarter.

As I understand things, molasses would increase bacteria in the soil, which would lead to a higher pH, more predation by protozoa, and more N. Which flies in the face of normal flushing rules.

If I had to guess, the trend in soil during a grow should be from a higher pH and more bacteria at the start, then by the end slightly more acidic and fungal.

Chef, how do you mean "crashing the herd"? How is feeding the herd going to crash it? I guess maybe in compacted soil, the aerobes would consume all the oxygen and it would go anaerobic. But your soil is probably loose and airy. Are you getting methane or butyric acid (vomit) smell? Or ammonia? That would indicate the herd crashing, if I get your meaning correctly.

You've hit the perfect N ratio "for your strain", when you have some nice golden fading/fall colors at harvest time. No early yellowing or dark green at harvest. I like to see it start around day 45 on a 60 day strain.

That's amazing. Every variety from everywhere in the world is supposed to look the same at finish to get "the right flavor". Humbug! This is my third time on the same strain, and it has finished different every time. Mid-flower bud samples, finished product, all taste, smell and smoke the same. This time around it is very green, and bound to stay that way to harvest (I do have some purpling of the buds I did not before). I've been smoking some early buds, by drying them in the vaporizer than throwing it in the bong. I'd say if anything, it's not as harsh as the last two times (one was yellow, the other was "fall foliage" - see the thread.). But I've given my tissues plenty of time and exposure to get used to the irritants in this strain.

Then again, that fits my little narrative about tasting what you expect to taste, doesn't it? :dunno

Or, it could be we've discovered that flushing is a joke, and your plants need N just before harvest to make the buds sweet.

Grammawatt, right on. Plant-tone and biotone are just awesome. One of the plants in my scrog is a bio-tone plant. I just give water, and fish hydrolysate once in a while. Ok, I do use EWC slurry, and I top dress azomite and kelp meal. But that's as much about the next grow as this grow.

 

[chef]

By crash the herd, I mean pumping their numbers so high, they consume all food, create imbalances & they all fkin die thus eliminating a lot of available nutrients at flush time.

I'd guess that your plants are suffering from cold feet syndrome, which means very little bio activity, so you're not seeing much is any of the benefits.
It's nothing to be ashamed of All low heat light crops suffer from it. Get a real light.

 

[mad librettist]

By crash the herd, I mean pumping their numbers so high, they consume all food, create imbalances & they all fkin die thus eliminating a lot of available nutrients at flush time.

Which imbalances? You have ridiculous amounts of oxygen in your perfect soil, and protozoans and other predators that thin out your bacteria as quick as they get born. Your grow as you describe it is like a wood stove with the everything thrown open. It would start heating before it ever crashed. If you want to kill microbes with sugar, as in some modes of preservation, you need a lot of it.

Tell you what, you are a prime candidate for reading "teaming with microbes" along with us. It will be fun, and we are only on chapter 1.

I'd guess that your plants are suffering from cold feet syndrome, which means very little bio activity, so you're not seeing much is any of the benefits.
It's nothing to be ashamed of All low heat light crops suffer from it. Get a real light

You bring up a good point. Anyone who grows food will tell you it's all about light. Ever compare greenhouse tomatoes or indoor hydro tomatoes to real, field grown tomatoes of the same variety, ripened on the vine. No comparison.

So you want "sweet" buds? give them the best light you can. and hey, they actually will produce more sugar, not to mention all the other compounds you are after.

I guess it's true, my soil gets no heat from my lights, because the buds are in the way. That's the price you pay for getting your stash out of a 31 gallon tub.

nice flame bait though.

Really bro, come read the book.

 

[jaykush]

By crash the herd, I mean pumping their numbers so high, they consume all food, create imbalances & they all fkin die thus eliminating a lot of available nutrients at flush time.

your forgetting that when microbes die, they become plant food or food for some other micro organism. and bacteria are quite rich in N.



but this has nothing to do with the original posters problem.

 

[Iron_Lion]

I just ran through my first full run with sub's super soil mixed exactly as directions say. I fed nothing all the way through flower, saw some mag def but nothing sever and that was it! Super easy and carefree. The best part is the herb tasted unreal, I mean great! I guess i shouldn't be surprised at that.

The only problem with it was the yield.. Strains that I have run many times before did not yield nearly as heavy as my plants grown in R.O. with biobizz full line minus "heaven" (That stuff is too expensive!).

I am trying to set up an auto watered (via tropf blumats) stadium grow with a no nute soil. If I could get the yield dialed in with this super soil I'd have my dream garden. Those blumats seem like they kick butt.

Disclaimer:

I did transplant two days before flower (had to for complicated reasons).

Maybe the roots didn't grow very far into the supersoil and instead the plant focused on flowering?


The directions say to create a "buffer" zone when transplanting so I packed at least 3-4 inches on all sides.

I read that the buffer is unnecessary for anything other than young clones, instead plant straight into the "hot" soil.

I've seen people get great yields out of this soil mix and am highly suspect the above details are responsible for the smaller yield.

Should I try again with the same mix (with no buffer and longer veg time)? or try something else like the moonshine mix?

Thanks for any input, I'm itching to get these blumats in the ground.

Id ditch your soil mix


Im getting plants like these in organic soil with organic nutes, easy as 1,2,3.

grown under a 250, at the time the pics were taken plants still had 3 weeks to go.

 

[nugbuckets]

Id ditch your soil mix


Im getting plants like these in organic soil with organic nutes, easy as 1,2,3.

grown under a 250, at the time the pics were taken plants still had 3 weeks to go.

what was your mix and nutes?

 

[Iron_Lion]

what was your mix and nutes?

Soil mix is just 1 bag fox farm ocean forest, 1 bag fox farm light warrior, 1 bag fox farm planting mix, with 8 tbls dolomite lime, mixed well.

nutes are a combo of hand blended ewc, kelp, molasses and guano teas. And late in flowering I cut the teas and top dress with kelp meal and guano.

 

[mad librettist]

and it gets even easier from there!

gotta love organics.

 

[a'muse]

I would venture a guess that those people can sense your own expectations, maybe on an unconscious level.

That's a much bigger stretch than believing, or in my case learning from experience, that adding molasses to teas makes buds taste sweeter, but if you insist on being right, then that's fine with me. I realize some folks need that to feel ok.

Also, the only one assuming is you. By saying I'm not susceptible to wives tales, all I meant was that my DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE says that molasses helps my pot taste better. Who are you to say my direct experience is wrong?

I apologize SELFHEMPLOYED, for having to defend myself from the opera lover's ego in your thread.

Have a nice day.

 

[mad librettist]

the moderator has come on and asked us to go back to the subject

please don't question my motives, as I have shown you the same courtesy.

 

[nugbuckets]

Soil mix is just 1 bag fox farm ocean forest, 1 bag fox farm light warrior, 1 bag fox farm planting mix, with 8 tbls dolomite lime, mixed well.

nutes are a combo of hand blended ewc, kelp, molasses and guano teas. And late in flowering I cut the teas and top dress with kelp meal and guano.

killer bro, nice work. I use something very similar, but with roots and just right x-tra as a base, then EWC and guano tea with sucanat. and a top dress with budswell guano, but I havn't had buds quite as nice as yours yet, but they are not bad.

 

[somebody041]

i ran subcool's supersoil last time and i'm running it again this time. you're right about the taste... so good! some of my plants had some yellowing top leaves like yours... good to know thats a MG def.

 

[C21H30O2]

would you guys agree that the key to yielding with organics is plenty of soil and a healthy microherd. I recently switched to r/o water in my grow and my plants seem much happier for it, anyone else notice that effect?

 

[vonforne]

Here is the recipe to make this concentrate!
You cannot grow plants directly in this super concentrate!

6 Bags Roots soil or equivalent high quality supped up grow soil
Note**I am trying a new product made by a local company that contains less fir bark called Harvest Moon
25 pounds Pure Worm Castings
½ cup Azomite trace minerals
2/3 Cup Sweet Lime IE Dolomite
1 Kilo Bone meal / IE 5 Pounds
1 Kilo Blood meal ( I use a bit more bone than Blood in this recipe)
1 Kilo Bat Guano bloom formula preferably Fruit bats
3/4 cup Epson Salts
The Perlite and Coco I happen to have and it will make a better mix but it is not necessary.

When I first read your post I did not think it was correct so I went back and checked........I was right.

From Subcool:

Here is the recipe to make this concentrate!
You cannot grow plants directly in this super concentrate!

So we add water and let it cook in the sunshine. 30 days is best for this concentrate and it can be used to condition soil as detailed in the soil 101 thread. Do Not Put Clones or Seeds in this mix!

I will use this for a full year just adding like 30-50% in the lower potion of the container and plain roots in top portion. As the concentrate gets older I can use more. To re use I just recondition.

He is using this like Biobizz All Mix. Just to condition soil not as a stand alone soil mix.

Hope that helps.

V

 

[NUG-JUG]

So not only is it too hot for seeds and clones but a small plant aswell? and expensive to boot..