Chem goes hydro, need subsequent help (WaterFarm)

[Chem&M]

Okay guys, here's how I set it up. I run a 4x2x5 flowering tent.

I set the reservoir outside the tent and ran the blue tubing through the side. I initially cut a very small hole and then made it stretch to the size of the tube while shoving it through. This maintained the light proofing.










The White Widow was transplanted last night and I left the pump on for quite a while. She's not to thrilled about it. I tried to ease her into more water before the transplant. She was in a mix of Hydroton and coco, but mostly Hydroton. I tried to over-water her the last week but apparently I didn't do a good job. She'll perk up in a day or two.

I went and bought 2 different 24 hour timers so each plant had it own. The Afghani X Haze clone will need a bit more water right now than the Widow, so I'm running it more often presently.


Here are the two of them. You can see the widow is badly wilted. The air tubes were disconnected in the pic while changing pumps.








At this point, I'm just trying to get into a groove for the water timing and keeping the reservoir around 5.5 with a 1.5 EC.

 

[ancientmariner]

Looks good. Nice pics.

For right now, you can run your pump intermittently (try 15 min out of 120; the little girl might be experiencing some mild transplant shock, but it's hard to over-water with this system). Your plant is still small and her roots haven't hit the water yet. But once her roots reach the lower bucket, that is when you will either need to add an air stone down there, or run the existing air pump 24/7.

Like I said, I opted for the air stones since my units already had the holes drilled.

I took down the largest colas of my 3 biggest girls a few days ago due to bud rot paranoia. I plan to take down the rest tonight or tomorrow night and will try to post a pic or two showing where the hole is for the lower air hose/bubbler.

It's just personal preference, but I think I would have given the widow another week or two of veg time...I'm far from an expert, and I have no first-hand experience with the WW strain, but I do know that Waterfarms are capable of growing trees, or at least healthy bushes...although it should still work out fine in the long run. It's just that with 2-3 weeks more veg, you might have doubled your final yield. For example, if you check out any of Hydrosun's posts, he uses DWC, vegges for 6 weeks, and gets Little Shop of Horrors-sized monster girls. That's the direction I am headed. (I hope.)

I always used GH until last July, when I picked up some H&G samples at the hydro show in SF. I noticed a big difference in coco, but not so much with rockwool and/or hydroton. But they make a product call Drip-Clean that is pretty cheap and requires extremely small quantities to keep salt buildup to a minimum -- and salt buildup on those drip rings can be deadly, unless you clean them constantly. I used to clean mine weekly or twice a week; now I do it about once every 2-3 weeks.

I suppose I could stay with GH and just add the Drip-Clean, but the H&G Aqua-Flakes base nutes aren't that much more expensive than GH base nutes (if at all). It's the additives -- Multi-Zyme, Roots Excelerator, Bud XL and Shooting Powder -- that take a big bite out of the bankroll.

Illchemist: When you link multiple Waterfarms, you almost always use a separate rez and control bucket. I have seen different configs here on ICM, but if I add a chiller, I plan to connect it to the control bucket and then run a 2nd 1/2" line, either from the control bucket or from the chiller itself (depending on the brand of chiller I buy) with 3/16 inch feeder hoses branching off of it into the tops of each WF.

So I'll be pumping in chilled nute solution through the top of the WF, letting it do its cooling thing as it filters down through the hydroton and into the lower bucket and then recirculating back to the control bucket through the standard 1/2" drain hose. Using this system, I plan to do away with the whole drip ring assembly, which I never liked anyway!

 

[Blckbrd]

Your set-up looks fantastic! Don't be afraid of the H2O2 ... it brings more oxygen to the roots. 1 tblspoon /gal is conservative IMO. It will deter/kill off microbes as well. Good for the roots if you are running strict chem feed which it appears you are.

Like Ancient, my next move will be to convert these to a true recirculating integrated system. The controllers look terrific & will allow for a few days absence if necessary.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Chem,
Read your thread. Quite the adventure. I just wanted to post a few experiences I've had. I bought a single HF about three years ago as a means of trying out hydro. I've used it completely stock for 4 runs so far.

For nutes, I'm a real basic sort of guy. I like the GH powdered nutes...I don't bother with Maxi-grow and use Maxi-bloom for everything. It's inexpensive, convenient and has a pretty stable ph. I don't add any supplements...my feeling is that's where you can fuck up the ph. The more variables, the harder it gets to keep things stable.

I keep the standard holes so my roots don't go down into the res...so no worries about res temp. Hydrofarms are such a hyper-aerated system that I don't use an airstone either. Dissolved O2 does a totally adequate job of discouraging bad bacteria (anerobes) so I've never had to use H2O2.

I use an E&F schedule... four 30 minute periods of irrigation during lights on.

My plants are about a foot when they go in and I've had fine results with 3'+ bushes. Never any root rot, drooping, or nutrient deficiencies. I just fill the res and check ph/ec every few days. My add-back is approximately 3/4 strength...though if EC is high I'll just add water. I'm a very casual grower and allow a pretty good ph drift.

People that convert these units to DWC by drilling out the top bucket holes...well I don't want to make a negative comment, except doing that really complicates things and I can't figure out what the gain is. Plants grow so damn fast in a stock Hydrofarm that I find it hard to imagine improving on that. So that's my story and I'm sticking with it...
Cheers,
ET

 

[Chimney]

dgdfgdfg

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Hey I don't want to sound dumb by recommending major changes or try to tell you how to do stuff, but IMHO those salt based nutes are a real pain. If you move to an organic nute you dont get salt buildup and don't have to flush nearly as much. Res maintenance is much simpler. Also is it has PH buffers to help keep PH nice and stable. Are you using a quality hydro store ph down??

As long as you dont have any clear tubing in your system to grow algae, you shouldn't have any troubles with organic nutes in drippers. No offense to the many people that love salt-based nutes, but IMHO they are a lot of work. With my nutes I just mix one spoonful per gallon and I am done. Top off what they drink and clean res once a month or even less.

Also are your ambient temps low enough? In my experience 5g dwcs or similar can be tough to keep from getting too warm and the borg fungus gnats kicked my butt. I switched to E&F where the medium can dry out more in between watering. Sorry for the ramble and stay safe! Puffff!

I use a pump instead of bubbler in the res and no h202 with organic nutes. Don't mean to push my style, just trying to share, hope it is ok.

 

[Chem&M]

Thanks for all the guidance and support guys. I'll be putting them on that 4 X 30 min period you suggested EvilTwin.

The Widow is already getting better.


I've noticed that I have to run much lower EC levels with this type of setup than I can run on my coco DTW. If I don't, the hydroton salts up. I had to lower the EC to about 1.25 yesterday to even things out. I think I wil just run it light until the plants tell me they need something else.

I will update this as we move forward. Both are already on 12/12 and the Widow had a 55 day time from the seed company. Of course, that doesn't really mean a ton, but it'll gimmie a ballpark. I'm moving in 9 weeks, so here's hoping. (How do I get myself into these things? LOL. I just can't stop.)

 

[Chem&M]

Hey I don't want to sound dumb by recommending major changes or try to tell you how to do stuff, but IMHO those salt based nutes are a real pain. If you move to an organic nute you dont get salt buildup and don't have to flush nearly as much. Res maintenance is much simpler. Also is it has PH buffers to help keep PH nice and stable. Are you using a quality hydro store ph down??

As long as you dont have any clear tubing in your system to grow algae, you shouldn't have any troubles with organic nutes in drippers. No offense to the many people that love salt-based nutes, but IMHO they are a lot of work. With my nutes I just mix one spoonful per gallon and I am done. Top off what they drink and clean res once a month or even less.

Also are your ambient temps low enough? In my experience 5g dwcs or similar can be tough to keep from getting too warm and the borg fungus gnats kicked my butt. I switched to E&F where the medium can dry out more in between watering. Sorry for the ramble and stay safe! Puffff!

I have the full General Organics line, and F.F., but I've heard nightmare stories about running organic in a rez. I'm open to anything in the future. Right now, I want these ladies stablized.

I do love organics. You're talking to a vegan here, so I have a healthy respect for avoiding to much Chemicals, but I thought this was the best was in this set-up. Having no prior experience though, I really don't know here.

I know that the outside rez temps stay between 65-68 F and the buckets inside the same, so I don't think it should be too big a problem, but again, no prior experience. I'm just hoping to learn the "in's & out's" on this small run to familiarize myself.

Also, I left the small holes in the systems like they came. I did not make the top bucket holes larger than they were. I think this is what ET. was speaking of.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

I have heard many bad things about certain brands of organic nutes in hydro, but there are some that are no problems at all. In all humbleness, I would submit FF is not a good hydro nute, however PBP-Bloom is designed for hydro. It has very little particulate. With a good pump in the res it keeps anything from settling to the bottom. With time the res has a brown-colored patina that I personally think may be good bacteria, but not sure.

IMHO again I would monitor those waterfarm internal temps regularly. Internal water temp 65degF is perfect, 68 or up is trouble. Sounds like you have a chiller that should be great! Try to really avoid getting the medium overwet, especially near the base of the main stem or whatever you used to root the clone (ie rapid rooter).

I have not used GH General Organics personally but went to the site and looks like it is for soil only. PBP's makers Botanicare do make a Pure Blend Original for dedicated soil growers, but PBP-B works great in soil too. I don't ever use PBP-Grow, just Bloom. Liquid Karma is good too for hydro.

Oh I see you already run a coco drain to waste? I humble submit that it could be great fun to try recirculating e&f with GH woven coco blocks and PBP. I use rockwool now but it holds too much water and I may switch!

I got really sick of the hydrotron (cleaning, losing them in the floor) and I have moved to rockwool. GH woven Coco could be a a great medium for drip or your setup too. Ooops here I go rambling again, sorry!! hope you dont mind..

 

[Chem&M]

No worries! I know GH has specifically stated that the GO line if for soil/coco but not straight hydro.

PBP sounds like something I'll look into.

I keep hearing so many different views on temps that I have no idea what's what here. According to several books I just lokked at, they say anything under 75 F is acceptable. I'm trying to stay below 69-70. I have no chiller, but the area is cool.

 

[PetFlora]

An inline filter between the res and the pump is a vg idea.

Dilute. Dilute. Dilute! Max 400 ppm.

Good luck!

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Well I dont claim to be a pro or anything but I think sometimes acceptable temps may depend on the system used too. If your medium is wet a lot of the time, and the water is warm, bugs will come FAST!

However if you are using a hydro system that only delivers water in small intervals, I think that helps keep the bugs away and slightly higher temps aren't a problem, but you always want cooler water temps, there is much more dissolved oxygen and the ladies are much happier. Think if the water is ~70, that is room temperature lukewarm water.

Something like drip through coco is good since it doesn't retain much water. My sys is an E&F with rockwool where I only flood once per day for 15 mins. Rockwool holds tons of water so i dont water often. I may try GH brand woven coco blocks though because they dont hold much water and I could water more often using shorter cycles.

 

[ancientmariner]

Hey chem: re: water temp:
You should be fine at 69.
Pathogens thrive at 75.
Seriously, who says 75 is okay? I lost an entire crop at 74; bought a chiller, kept my temps under 70, harvested monsters despite criminal abuse and neglect along the way.
But once again: if your roots don't hit the bottom bucket, it's all moot anyhow. And given the size of your WW at onset of flowering, I doubt you'll need to worry about that. The same goes for adding an airstone -- you don't need it if you stay relatively small.
My Coles Train, however, went into flower at 15 inches. By third week of flower I had roots hitting water; at harvest I had a 30 x 30 bush with a root ball the size of a basketball inthe lower bucket.
When I add buckets for my next run the Rez and controller will have to move into the flowering room where temps hit 88, so I'll be chillin fr sure.
I'll try to post those pics tomorrow pm.

 

[Chem&M]

Thanks Guys. Temps in the rez topped out at 71 F. Honestly, I wasn't even planing on really running this, but things happen and I had a clone and a seeding left over somehow. I knew that the widow was going to stay small no matter what, and given my moving time, it seemed like just flowering it and learning about WF's before the move was appropriate.

I do plan on getting a chiller and going with all the suggestions here in my new space on the next grow though. You guys are giving me so much good info here that I could have been lost without you.

A search on Water Farms never really gave enough info for the new WF grower, so I thought this thread might serve that purpose for a new member in the future.

 

[ancientmariner]

Waterfarm pics

Waterfarm pics

So here are the pics I promised. First, the plant (Cole's Train) at harvest (56 days flower)



Next, a few shots showing the varying distances of holes for the air hose. No logic to it; they all worked more or less the same.







The bubbler in action right after take-down...



And a gratuitous shot of the Aeroflo 60 in action...

[url='http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=15226&pictureid=308608']

Hope they helped. Good luck with the rest of yr grow.

 

[Chem&M]

Thanks for the pics homie! I appreciate it. It's much nicer having good peeps in your thread, KWIM? Like I stated before, yield and all that isn't my goal here. It's to learn the in's/out's so that I will know that when I do this seriously.

Anyway, the Widow finally perked up today. More than she was at least. The AfghaniXHaze clone it fine. I've kept the rez stable at about 5.5-5.6 PH and around 1.6-1.7 EC. 3 X 30 mins water cycles during lights on.

They are getting AN nutes in a 1-2-3 ratio and will get Big Bud during the right time for the Widow.

I will update when I learn something or just for growth every few days. Advice, questions, comments, heckles all welcome.

 

[EvilTwin]

Oh ya...looking good now. Hey on the WW. Remember that they're Mg hogs, so throwing a little Epsom salts in there would be better then waiting for the deficiency. I use 1/4 tsp/gal for maintenance...
ET

 

[Chem&M]

Oh ya...looking good now. Hey on the WW. Remember that they're Mg hogs, so throwing a little Epsom salts in there would be better then waiting for the deficiency. I use 1/4 tsp/gal for maintenance...
ET

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks a ton Twin.

BTW- Rez temps have stayed around 67 or lower. Definitely between 60-70.

 

[MikeRoOrganix]

Since we started talking I have been watching my res temps and they are about 65 at night, 68 during the day

 

[ancientmariner]

you're golden