MPP to the rescue?

[qdavid]

I was sent an email by MPP (probably much like many of you here) asking me to do as much locally as I can for MMJ, even personally going to my congressional reps. office and meeting with him, After I had seen these quotes in a thread I read here, I responded:

"I'd keep my eye on MPP - they filed a referendum in AZ that will not allow patient growing and will force patients to buy at expensive dispensaries only. They passed a bill in NJ that is very restrictive, and they have been lobbying for bills in NH and elsewhere that do not allow patient growing. They have abandoned this as a policy goal."

"In Massachusetts they actually hired a lobbyist and tried to start making changes to the local groups' medical MJ bill without contacting or working with a single person from in-state."

"In Maine they hired a consultant to run a signature-gathering petition using many volunteers and some paid people. After the consultant introduced a student group's showing of "Grass" at a Portand high school (no scandal happened, was not even mentioned in local media), MPP pulled their money out and abandoned the volunteers' work and medical MJ patients. Only because Drug Policy Alliance came in and restored funding the referendum went forward and passed easily."

"I know RIPAC has some excellent people and committed volunteers and that is why MPP will not be able to pull their usual screw-the-locals bullshit in RI."

If those statements are true, I do not support MPP and please remove my name from any/all of your mailing lists.

David

Today they sent me this:

Dear David,
Thank you for writing MPP and sharing your concerns. We do believe adults should be permitted to cultivate marijuana for personal use. However, in order to advance the goal of shifting from prohibition to regulated access for patients, we've been willing to consider other models as well. While MPP generally tries to include cultivation rights in medical marijuana bills, we have been willing to negotiate when absolutely necessary to ensure patients have access to medical marijuana as soon as possible.
We appreciate being given the chance to respond to your concerns. I hope this information helps.
Sincerely,

Leah Harris, Assistant Manager of Events and Outreach
Marijuana Policy Project
236 Massachusetts Ave. NE, Suite 400, Washington, DC 20002
202-462-5747, ext *2020 (phone), 202-552-0969 (fax)
[email protected], http://www.mpp.org

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP's free e-mail alerts.

And I wrote back:

I absolutely totally disagree with this. The law makes choices and then uses those earlier decisions as basis for many later laws with reasoning based on precedence. The MMJ law in NJ is a bad, meaningless piece of legislation and passed largely with MPP support. You are NOT doing the MMJ movement any favors by willingness to compromise. Wrong is wrong and only made worse by accepting half measures. Those truly involved (the suffering ill) are not being done justice. The MMJ movement has struggled way too long and hard to be accepting of any half measure in hopes that this may silence the outrage to any degree, but only make that outrage worse.

Also MPP's blatant disregard for contact with people who are directly involved locally just indicates total disregard and disrespect for anyone on the "front lines" and is apparent that MPP is more than happy to jump in and take credit at the last minute for work done on those front lines. You can have all the credit for that meaningless, useless MMJ legislation in NJ. You deserve all accolades for that.

I think they have a point but I do feel settling is not helping anything but only actually delays what is best. Your thoughts?

 

[elwaponino]

You're abosolutely right, Loosing one right to gain another, when in actuallity, they're both ours. It's just a Trojan horse, we within our culture need to become more vigilant for our hobbies/passion, including our civil liberties. Remember our Govt. only have Privlages that we gave them, and we can take them away, each of us has Rights, they only have privlages.

 

[qdavid]

Well said. Thanks.

 

[buddydro]

From my research - I have yet to find anyone - in any legal med state - opposing patient/care giver growing - who does not have an ulterior commercial motivation.

Wolves in sheep's clothing.

Maybe it's just me? Do they make tin foil hats for this?

 

[xfargox]

I actually agree with the MPP's view on this. I think any step towards legalization should be accepted by us.

I don't think we should stop there by any means, but keep in mind the real issue here is that some people cannot legally use the marijuana they need to use. Making it legal for patients should be the top priority. I think that being able to grow comes next on the list.

Either way, I wouldn't be too, too mad if my state only passed a law like the ones you disagree with. Many of the real medical users don't grow anyways.

I don't think this would be an appropriate end solution, but any form of legalization is better than none.

 

[qdavid]

"From my research - I have yet to find anyone - in any legal med state - opposing patient/care giver growing - who does not have an ulterior commercial motivation.

Wolves in sheep's clothing.

Maybe it's just me? Do they make tin foil hats for this?"

It's not just you. If somebody made and sold those hats they'd make a killing.

Lots of people have noticed that. Including politicians who are sitting on the fence on this issue. The MMJ cause has become an industry run by shady people out to make a buck from the sick. That's really low. But then we have a big national lobbying force like the "Policy Project" only helping to promote that shady business. WHAT THE FUCK?

They even use the term "Marijuana" in their name. Marijuana was a Spanish word used by Mexicans for cannabis and then used by Hearst and crew to scare people into buying into the racist fears that "them damn foreigners will take your job" while wanting to also protect his huge lumber holdings that cheaper hemp paper would compete against. All this was during the depression too, furthering stoking the fires of that fear. IT'S FUCKING CANNABIS!

 

[elwaponino]

Nice comment as well, anyone ever call you DQ?

 

[qdavid]

Nice comment as well, anyone ever call you DQ?

Sure, but as a heterosexual I was never particularly fond of the Dairy Queen moniker. I guess that is a little homophobic, but I have worked alongside flaming gays in a high pressure situations and they did their jobs well and professionally and that's was all that was important to me then (it was necessary), so I don't consider myself really homophobic.

 

[ChronJohn]

I agree with you buddy (the username and the OP). Ever since I got into activism I've been saying "No Compromises" because if anything "they" (the establishment) owe us compromises for the decades of abuse, oppression, discrimination, and torture that they have inflicted upon us! There should be very few regulations concerning its production and distribution, since it is a relatively harmless substance. The only explanation for keeping production out of the hands of patients is to enable the limited distributors that will be allowed to price gouge the patients. When you choke supply, prices go up. Like all these "state licensed" distribution centers these bills call for and talk of "state run greenhouses"... I can see the shitty meds @ $500 an oz now. MPP's willingness to cede such a vital part of an MMJ bill is disheartening. My question is, where is their dog in the fight? What do they stand to gain by allowing the monopolization of medicine?
I also agree with your opposition to using "marijuana" in their name. NORML does it too. And going around calling it "pot" and whatnot.. it's just unprofessional. Call it what it is! Bud or cannabis or something of the like is fine but not some colloquial word with racist roots or some old slang term.

 

[igrowone]

good for you qdavid, this was an excellent thread on this issue
like others here, i smell something foul
in the NY MMJ bill of last year there was NOTHING about prohibiting cultivation by patients
and all of a sudden this NJ piece of crap pops up, the new NY MMJ bill for this year suddenly transforms into the NJ bill with a few small differences
malign influences are at work here, the NY political process suddenly 'recreates' the NJ bill? give me a break - only money makes crap like this happen

 

[qdavid]

Thanks man. I hope they're hearing us. The original email soliciting my help first came from some local MPP worker, but that email explaining their position came from MPP headquarters in Washington. So that leads me to think their current "policy" is being discussed a lot there. If my original email was forwarded "above" and then they felt the need to respond to me personally, that's evidence of that. Let's hope anyhow. They do wield a lot of power and it's only going to get bigger. That's my take on it anyway.

Let's also hope some people there peruse these forums too. Maybe to get a firmer handle on current trends and opinion's? If they don't then they're even bigger fools than they have shown and definitely not out to represent anybody but themselves.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Making it legal for patients should be the top priority. I think that being able to grow comes next on the list.

What these people (who are not patients) don't understand is that growing is necessary for most patients.... so they can f'ing afford the amounts they need to use it without smoking it.


The biggest problem I have with dispensaries is that they don't carry the strains I need... and the quality is often suspect. No govt/state run organization is EVER going to be able to supply everyone with meds that work for them....

Continuing to deny citizens their right to grow is criminal.


Stay Safe!

 

[Ocean Grown]

Many groups, Many agendas. Many driven by "something green". And it isn't your rights or pot.

Most people don't know that "patient / consumer can grow" isn't part of most groups agendas.

What is a priority, is the big business of making money on cannabis (fighting for control of a commodity). But only for a few privileged folks. Usually for the leaders and large financial contributors to these organizations' agendas. They want to be canna wal-mart, your right to grow doesn't help the bottom line. It's bootlegging to them and stealing their profits.

Sure they do a lot for us.. But that is to prepare the soil for a RICH harvest. We are the fertilizer. We can have the scraps after the jets are paid for.

Beware of false "profits"!!

The next time you hear them say: "We are fighting for your rights", ask WHY. For sure it's not for kicks!

PS buddydro, bingo.

 

[qdavid]

I've been mulling over this issue a long time, actually since the early '70s when I wrote my first big high school paper on pro-decriminalization. The most current issues seem to be that MMJ will soon finally, after all this time, really come to fruition. But now, early on is when the most wise decisions need to be made about the future.

The club/dispensary idea has been infiltrated by people out to make money and are buying from vendors who actually only do it to sell their product and make bucks. We have also seen the dismal failures over and over by the many different gov't beaurocracies whenever they get involved in pretty much anything big at all. Therefore although it would be strife with abuses and mismanagement, I'm more in favor of just cutting out these middle men (dispensaries), let patients grow, and letting the gov't get in by closely regulating caregivers. In this "model" the caregiver could have grow limits, and profit limits (based on growing), would grow requested strains, be taxed, and have to jump through a few hoops (but I'm sure most commercial growers/venders would rather do that then be sent to prison). The ideal is of course legalization, but I just don't see that happening, and even if it did then we would have to deal with all the big business/pharma bullshit. But most importantly, patients need to grow or really be taken care of.

 

[buddydro]

Another Tin Foil Hat Theory?

Another Tin Foil Hat Theory?

Many groups, Many agendas. Many driven by "something green". And it isn't your rights or pot.

Most people don't know that "patient / consumer can grow" isn't part of most groups agendas.

What is a priority, is the big business of making money on cannabis (fighting for control of a commodity). But only for a few privileged folks. Usually for the leaders and large financial contributors to these organizations' agendas. They want to be canna wal-mart, your right to grow doesn't help the bottom line. It's bootlegging to them and stealing their profits.

Sure they do a lot for us.. But that is to prepare the soil for a RICH harvest. We are the fertilizer. We can have the scraps after the jets are paid for.

Beware of false "profits"!!

The next time you hear them say: "We are fighting for your rights", ask WHY. For sure it's not for kicks!

PS buddydro, bingo.

Another little irritating irony I've notice -

It's the same folks we fight against tooth and nail to get these Bills passed that are doing a 360 under their new motto-

"If you can't beat 'em - may as well capitalize on 'em"

 

[NiteTiger]

/Devil's Advocate begin

So, you're willing to let patients suffer until you get what you want your way? And anybody who disagrees with that is shady or out to make a buck? Better patients should have nothing than something? Even if it is potentially life-saving? Gee, I wonder how people could get the idea that maybe patients aren't ACTUALLY the reason you want MMJ?

Yes, let's not make compromises that will actually allow patients access right now, let's continue pushing legislation that is not getting passed.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you've tried and tried and tried to get the same bill passed, and it hasn't passed, or even been considered, then not changing that bill in some way to make it passable means you're just wasting time.

/end Devil's Advocate

My personal feeling is that the Government has no right to any controls over MJ. It was bad law that gave them control, it's still a bad law now, and they don't even know why they're doing it anymore. I tthink MMJ in general is a half-assed cop out that politicians can take and still maintain some measure of control that they shouldn't have ever had.

However, I'm willing to give on MMJ. Me and the polis disagree on removing MJ from the Schedule completely, and we'll continue that argument indefinitely, but in the mean time, let's agree to leave patients out of the fight. A patient that needs it to live or have any decent quality of life shouldn't suffer because of the larger fight.

If you're willing to let one person suffer for a day longer than they have to, perhaps you should re-examine your motives for wanting MMJ.

A small step is better than no step.

 

[igrowone]

/Devil's Advocate begin

So, you're willing to let patients suffer until you get what you want your way? And anybody who disagrees with that is shady or out to make a buck? Better patients should have nothing than something? Even if it is potentially life-saving? Gee, I wonder how people could get the idea that maybe patients aren't ACTUALLY the reason you want MMJ?

Yes, let's not make compromises that will actually allow patients access right now, let's continue pushing legislation that is not getting passed.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you've tried and tried and tried to get the same bill passed, and it hasn't passed, or even been considered, then not changing that bill in some way to make it passable means you're just wasting time.

/end Devil's Advocate

My personal feeling is that the Government has no right to any controls over MJ. It was bad law that gave them control, it's still a bad law now, and they don't even know why they're doing it anymore. I tthink MMJ in general is a half-assed cop out that politicians can take and still maintain some measure of control that they shouldn't have ever had.

However, I'm willing to give on MMJ. Me and the polis disagree on removing MJ from the Schedule completely, and we'll continue that argument indefinitely, but in the mean time, let's agree to leave patients out of the fight. A patient that needs it to live or have any decent quality of life shouldn't suffer because of the larger fight.

If you're willing to let one person suffer for a day longer than they have to, perhaps you should re-examine your motives for wanting MMJ.

A small step is better than no step.

perfectly reasonable point of view
but in my very humble opinion, pro MMJ people have had very little influence on this process
the politicos don't give a damn about the pro MMJ constituency(with some exceptions)
they will vote for MMJ if there is no negative voter fallout
and that is what is changing, it's becoming less of a hot button issue, even in some otherwise conservative locations
so we're moving into the next act, the money negotiations
from what i can see, patients are the afterthought
but some patients will benefit, no matter the outcome

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Any legal medicinal cannabis is better than none for sure, but I just don't think a state run facility can supply the demand of the free market, nor can they deliver the quality and variety people need.

As of now, do you think NJ will ever allow free market dispensaries?

Even if the waiting list for meds is hundreds of pages long and patient complaints are being filed on a regular basis?

From my limited experience with gov't organizations, once they are in place they are a permanent fixture that will never go away, nor will they allow anything to come about that threatens their legitimacy, like competition.

So I think setting up state run facilities from the get-go is totally a wrong move, even if patients will get the medicine sooner, it doesn't mean they will be getting what they need.

As far as MPP goes, this is horrible policy, they should be promoting the re-scheduling of cannabis so doctors can prescribe it and official research can be done without permission fromthe DEA.

 

[NiteTiger]

Any legal medicinal cannabis is better than none for sure, but I just don't think a state run facility can supply the demand of the free market, nor can they deliver the quality and variety people need.

Based on what? Sure, if guys like us who have the knowledge and the experience don't continue to stay involved, and work on behalf of the patients, then yeah, it will be a gimped system.

As of now, do you think NJ will ever allow free market dispensaries? Even if the waiting list for meds is hundreds of pages long and patient complaints are being filed on a regular basis?

I think getting dispensaries in place is more important than getting nit-picky about how they're run based on assumptions.

From my limited experience with gov't organizations, once they are in place they are a permanent fixture that will never go away, nor will they allow anything to come about that threatens their legitimacy, like competition.

I've actually seen quite a few gov't organizations privatized, eliminated, or totally revamped. Especially if they're operated poorly.

So I think setting up state run facilities from the get-go is totally a wrong move, even if patients will get the medicine sooner, it doesn't mean they will be getting what they need.

So, if we're out scuba diving, and you run out of air, would you rather drown or have me fart in your facemask if it will keep you alive? It may not be exactly perfect for what you need, but it will do until we can get you what is perfect, you know?

Also, if you want to make sure the agency is providing as it should, get involved! Make sure it happens. Hell, maybe you should go apply to run it? Be a patient assessor to help find the proper strains? Or just watchdog 'em as a patient advocate, and make sure everyone knows about the flaws in the system.

Do your part when and where you can, WITHOUT blocking access.

As far as MPP goes, this is horrible policy, they should be promoting the re-scheduling of cannabis so doctors can prescribe it and official research can be done without permission fromthe DEA.

That is exactly what MPP is doing. However, when you hit a brick wall, you don't just keep hitting it, you try to get around it.

 

[JackTheGrower]

That is the ugly truth really.. That some form of prohibition is more profitable than legal cannabis.

We have the "capital problem" in the USA..

If one has had the chance to see American News they may see that 87% of those polled feel the Government is broken and my point is that our Capital Lives are not in sync with natural living.

I have to agree with Blue Dot that Capitalism it the sickness and legalization of Cannabis is the cure.

BTW I don't have a problem with going to my local cannabis shop and buying quality I can trust. So I am not so against profits that I would demand total free cannabis.

Ernst