Use of hydrated lime instead of dolomite lime

[Amphiphile]

Hi all!
Thanks to this forum I realized the importance of adding dolomite lime to soil mix. Unfortunately in my area none seems to sell DL, so the closest thing I found to it was hydrated lime.
I have to say that I bought it in a store for building supplies (it sells stuff like concrete, paint, bricks etc.), so I was wondering:
Is that HL good for agricultural purposes? What ratio of it should I mix in my soil? How should I mix it (wetting the mix BEFORE adding or just in dry soil)?
I have a pH tester, so what's the best method to test your soil pH?

Thanks in advance to everybody!

 

[luciano28]

Pretty sure you dont wanna use that stuff, if you cannot find pulverized dolomite, Epsoma makes a pelletized version you can buy at any Home Depot(about $6 I think) if you are in America. They suck to smash and breakdown but it can be done with wax paper and a hammer.

 

[BurnOne]

Hi all!
Thanks to this forum I realized the importance of adding dolomite lime to soil mix.

Obviously not.

 

[mad librettist]

Yeah you can use it as a Ca source but you can't substitute it alone for dolomite in the recipes you find here. On the other hand there are ways to grow without lime.

Pelletized lime- don't crush it. Waste of time.

 

[secondtry]

Mad.L.,

Sorry to say but that's bad advise. H.lime is phytotoxic in low quantities, and it only adjusts pH for a short time (albeit very quickly). For lime Ca I always suggest mixing calcidic lime with dolomitic lime (50/50). That is also wise as too much Mg can make media 'crusty'.

I agree 100% that pelleted lime is so totally lame. Powdered lime is best.

FWIW, dolomitic lime is supposed to increase pH faster than calcidic lime.

HTH

 

[secondtry]

Hey again Mad.L.,

I just noticed this:

YOn the other hand there are ways to grow without lime.

Maybe if using coir, but with peat or aged pine bark lime should be added without a doubt.

 

[secondtry]

@ Burn1,

loved your reply.

 

[fishwater]

Check out BurnOne's sticky at the top of Organics forum.... you can get dolomite lime from WormsWay...
If you dont want a 50lb bag, they also have a product called Soil Sweetner, or something like that. I think it is pulverized dolomite lime but rather spendy..

 

[Zendo]

Obviously not.

 

[luciano28]

Mad.L.,

Sorry to say but that's bad advise. H.lime is phytotoxic in low quantities, and it only adjusts pH for a short time (albeit very quickly). For lime Ca I always suggest mixing calcidic lime with dolomitic lime (50/50). That is also wise as too much Mg can make media 'crusty'.

I agree 100% that pelleted lime is so totally lame. Powdered lime is best.

FWIW, dolomitic lime is supposed to increase pH faster than calcidic lime.

HTH

I just recently found a product that is a mixed pulverized calcitic/dolomitic mix. It's called Spartans Speedi-Grow Agricultural Limestone. I was crushing epsoma pellets for the last year or so to mix in my pro-mix for the flowering girls(agree totally lame). I find about 6-7 weeks into flower, the ph starts getting whacky when you use Pro-Mix. Adding extra lime has fixed it.

But Im glad to hear the calcitic mix is good, I got the last 50# bag at the shop a couple weeks back for $12 but I was wondering about the calcitic lime in it. Good to know.

Another couple questions for you guys:1. Can you ever have too much lime in a soil mix? If I add a tablespoon to say every gallon of Pro-Mix(already has lime) could I run into any problems from overkill on lime?

2. Now that I have finally got some pulverized lime, can it be mixed into water immediately for a quick fix on ph issues late in flower, instead of me topdressing and trying to work it into the soil and hoping. If so how much lime per gallon of H2O?

 

[Amphiphile]

Ok. Thanks all for the reply.
Unfortunately I do not live in US so I cannot buy anything at Home Depot, wallmart and so on. As I said I was not able to find any dolomite in ANY form, neither pellet nor powdered.

Since you said HL is toxic I will not use it. Anyone knows where I can buy dolomite lime for agricultural purpose in Southern Europe?
Thanks

@ BurnOne
Just two more words about the whole story: I asked to ALL the nursery, gardner supply store and florist within 300 Km range in my area. Everyone I asked for Dolomite lime looked at me like I was asking them an alien artifact. Some even told me that lime have no utility when cultivating. I visited about 20 shops and called by phone another 20. ALL the same result: nothing.
Sometimes I felt like I was a real fool asking for stuff that people that are supposed to sell it, even do not know about it.
So dude trust me when I say I understood the importance of lime.
I do not want to flame. Just want to clarify because it's three months since I'm looking for DL and sincerely I'm starting to feel a bit frustrated about it.

 

[secondtry]

Hey luciano28,

Yup calcidic lime is great stuff, I get mine from www.groworganic.com

1. Can you ever have too much lime in a soil mix? If I add a tablespoon to say every gallon of Pro-Mix(already has lime) could I run into any problems from overkill on lime?

Yes you can add too much D or C lime, but they max out in pH increase around 10 or so (IIRC), while H lime can raise pH above 10 no sweat. If you added a tbl per gallon you should be fine. Do you have a pH pen? If so I suggest you use the NCSU PourThru method to find pH of media a few days after you mixed it and moistened it. IF the pH is below 6.5 your good to go.

2. Now that I have finally got some pulverized lime, can it be mixed into water immediately for a quick fix on ph issues late in flower, instead of me topdressing and trying to work it into the soil and hoping. If so how much lime per gallon of H2O?

No don't do that because using alkaline water will flush cations from CEC.

FWIW, that is how to properly flush media: alkaline water with dolimitc lime (not plain water). Plain water doesn't do much if the CEC and bulk density of media is high (that's not the case with pro-mix, it's bulk density is low).

HTH

 

[secondtry]

@ Amphiphile,

Try to find "agricultural lime", that is calcidic lime. If you can't find dolomitic lime then try to find calcidic lime and use it in place of dolomitic lime (you can use a bit more calcidic lime than dolomitic lime).

GL

 

[secondtry]

P.S. Amphiphile,

I wasn't trying to mess with you when I told Burn1 I loved his response. It was not meant to reflect upon your thread starting post, I just got a chuckle out of the wittiness of his post...not that it was helpful to you.

GL

 

[secondtry]

@ Amphiphile,

Often people dont' know what "dolomite" lime is, but they often know what "limestone" powder is. Most often limestone powder is calicidc lime, but it is sometimes dolomitic lime. Try to find limestone powder (if you can't find agricultural lime) and read the package, it will list what kind of lime it is. "Burnt lime" is hydrated lime and is not what you want (in case someone tried to sell you H lime).

Re: not using lime:

Total BS. You need lime media to raise pH to 5.5-6.5 if the media pH is below about 5.5, that is true for conventional and organic (microbiological) horticulture.

HTH

 

[luciano28]

Yes you can add too much D or C lime, but they max out in pH increase around 10 or so (IIRC), while H lime can raise pH above 10 no sweat. If you added a tbl per gallon you should be fine. Do you have a pH pen? If so I suggest you use the NCSU PourThru method to find pH of media a few days after you mixed it and moistened it. IF the pH is below 6.5 your good to go.

Yes I do have a ph pen. I will do that, thanks.

No don't do that because using alkaline water will flush cations from CEC (cations like N are acidic, e.g., ammonium).

BTW, that is how to properly flush media: alkaline water with dolimitc lime (not plain water). Plain water doesn't do much if the CEC and bulk density of media is high (that's not the case with pro-mix, it's bulk density is low).

HTH

Okay good to know, I been growing with pro-mix for quite awhile now, Im pretty good at timing when the ph issues start now, like I said its only late in flower.

Now with the proper way to flush, is calcitic lime ok too, or does it have to be only dolomitic lime and water to flush properly? Hope I dont gotta keep hunting for dolomitic lime, lol.

Thank you very much for answering my questions man.

P.S. Im loving the soil innoculants section of that website you like. What category would lime be under on that site?

 

[Amphiphile]

@ Amphiphile,

Try to find "agricultural lime", that is calcidic lime. If you can't find dolomitic lime then try to find calcidic lime and use it in place of dolomitic lime (you can use a bit more calcidic lime than dolomitic lime).

GL

I asked for that too... the real issue is that the area where I live is really rich in carbonate deposits (not far from here there are a lot of marble quarries. So the fields are naturally buffered, or at least they are already alkaline. But since I grow using a potting soil peat based, I had trouble with pH during my other grow.

Anyway thanks for the info about toxicity. Btw I have some soil in which I already mixed some H. lime, but since I was not sure about it I do not have used it yet. I have about 12 plants in veg right now and I want transplant them when I'll flower in April, so what can I do right now: throw away the soil or can I recover it in some way?

 

[secondtry]

Hey luciano28,

NP. If you need info on the PouThru method goolge "NCSU pourthru" (include quotes when searching so on google), and find the NCSU page with all the PDFs. Or I can post the link.

Using C lime to flush will work fine. But unless you have higher bulk destiny in your media the CEC isn't going to have a strong effect so flushing is not really worth it. On that point, I would increase the BD (bulk density) of your media by adding compost or EWC by 5% (vol/vol), and add some rock powders too, zeolite powder is ideal, but any is better than none, Green Gaia may offer high CEC levels (tho nowhere near the CEC of zeolite powder).

Here is the microzied calcidic lime powder (i.e., "calicum carbonate") I use. It's screened to 44 microns (325 mesh). The smaller the micron size the better as it allows microbes to mineralize it more quickly (50lbs for $15)"

Marblewhite 325 - Solution Grade Mined Limestone (50 Lb)
http://groworganic.com/item_F1570_Marblewhite_325__Solution_Grade_.html

98% Calcium Carbonate Excellent source of fast-acting calcium and carbon for use in irrigation systems (flood, sprinkler or drip) and for foliar feeding. This limestone is screened to an ultra-fine 325 mesh for easy mixing with water and quick uptake by plants and microbes. Use at 10-100 lb/acre in irrigation water or 1-10 lb/100 gal as a foliar, with multiple applications of up to 10 per season. Solution grade limestone is also useful for cleaning algaes from water lines and emitters. Can also be broadcast and watered in.

 

[secondtry]

Btw I have some soil in which I already mixed some H. lime, but since I was not sure about it I do not have used it yet. I have about 12 plants in veg right now and I want transplant them when I'll flower in April, so what can I do right now: throw away the soil or can I recover it in some way?

You could use the media if the pH isn't too high, but hydrated lime has short term effects upon pH so it's not too useful anyway. I would moisten media and allow it to sit for a week, then check the media pH with the PourThru method and if it's below 6 I would add calcidic lime bringing pH to about 6.5 max. Then use the media. However, if it's not a big deal I would just start over without hydrated lime if you can find calcidic lime.

HTH

 

[Amphiphile]

I guess I have to be more precise if I want to be helped. First of all here it is my soil mix ratio:
2/10 peat based potting soil with humus and zeolite
2/10 coco coir
2/10 peat moss
2/10 worm casting
2/10 perlite and volcanic pumice

I added about 50 mL H lime every 10 L of soil mix; so it's 150 mL in 30 L of soil. At the moment I have no more EWC, but I have some leonardite to add as humic font.
So what can I add in order to avoid that H lime will ruin my plants?
Even in that quantity, could H lime be toxic to my plant?

Thank you all for your help. It is really appreciated.