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tokinafaty420
LEDs are not new tech. NASA has been experimenting with them since the early nineties. Thats almost 2 decades.
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LEDs
- Thread starter LED.BULL
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LEDs are not new tech. NASA has been experimenting with them since the early nineties. Thats almost 2 decades.
I don't want to get in the middle of anything, I just want to share my thoughts with everyone.
I've been following LEDs closely for a while, I knew it was coming long ago, as I'm sure many of you did. At first I saw the purplish hue of the light and chuckled, thinking people must be downright idiots to buy into LED . . .
But little by little I saw results, not with cannabis, primarily with leafy veggies like lettuce and cabbage grown hydroponically. The results weren't astounding, but they were there . . .
Now I had a chance to meet a man (and a company) growing under an LED side by side with a 400 watt halide. He's been doing this "demo" in his storefront since April, I don't want to reveal the store or it's location, as this is a not an MMJ friendly state and I'd rather have people think me a liar than give away too much info . . . .
Anyways, its right there in the store front, and has been for a little under a year. I talked to the owned of the establishment recently regarding what he thought about LEDs and their future in horticulture and he told me that there are some immense benefits to LED. First is no wasted light, all the light emitted is within the plants usable spectrum. We all know this. He said the lifespan of the diodes is outstanding, very long life and very reliable performance, greatly outlasting any HID bulb as well as florescents . . . we knew this also. He said there is less heat produced with LEDS and that it typically flows right out the top of the fixture, although he did say it was more heat than he expected . .. but still less than HID.
He said it had drawbacks also, like lumens per watt was less far than impressive, but again all usable to the plants. He also said you had to keep the fixture very close to see growth rates comparable to the MH (which was placed 24" away) but that if you did so growth was excellent.
Our conversation lasted maybe 25 minutes and we spent the last of it talking about the future and his honest thoughts. He told me LEDs are great for people who can't afford the heat, that they are a great alternative and definitely a viable option, but for people who can control the heat and have a history with HID we may not get quite the results we've come to expect - it's just not quite the same he said.
He said that if he dropped the 400 MH lamp down to less than 15" and cooled it with an aircooled hood it outperformed the LEDs substantially, which makes sense because of the inverse square law, right? So that's a no brainer, but still you can't get the LEDs closer than what they were, meaning the LED system is fixed in that at point-blank in compared to 400 watt halide system about 2 feet away, but move the halide closer, and BAM, out-performs LEDs considerably . . . (again this is obvious, right?)
He said the main drawback is intensity. The amount of diodes required to equal a MH that is placed closer than 18" is still a little larger in total "area" than he'd like, meaning the fixture has such a large "footprint" that it's simply not possible to get the same amount of LED light to fall in a given area as HID light (provided you drop the HID down lower), and that given that fact HIDs will outperform LEDs until some technological change allowing more lumens per watt of LED light.
These are all his thoughts and experiences, not mine, I just wanted to share them as this guy was a very knowledgeable individual with a great deal of experience. He said that he still thinks LED will have role in the future and may even BE the future, adding that he had no crystal ball, and that in the long term not having to replace the diodes (or ballast, or bulbs) as well as reduced wattage because of more PAR light per watt aids in making the cost of an LED more realistic . . . but that right now, with what's currently available, it's cheaper to to cool an HID light and keep it closer than to invest in LED, and he said his experience in doing so has shown significantly better results with the HID . . . but with the HID not cooled and 24" away the results favored the LEDs . . .
I'd like LED GIRL to let me know her thoughts on this, but for now I thought I'd post it here and see what you all thought.
And before I come back and see someone line-by-line quoting my post and counter-pointing me, lol, let me just say that I've said all I know about this place and it's side by side grow, if I had more to share I'd have posted it.
I've been following LEDs closely for a while, I knew it was coming long ago, as I'm sure many of you did. At first I saw the purplish hue of the light and chuckled, thinking people must be downright idiots to buy into LED . . .
But little by little I saw results, not with cannabis, primarily with leafy veggies like lettuce and cabbage grown hydroponically. The results weren't astounding, but they were there . . .
Now I had a chance to meet a man (and a company) growing under an LED side by side with a 400 watt halide. He's been doing this "demo" in his storefront since April, I don't want to reveal the store or it's location, as this is a not an MMJ friendly state and I'd rather have people think me a liar than give away too much info . . . .
Anyways, its right there in the store front, and has been for a little under a year. I talked to the owned of the establishment recently regarding what he thought about LEDs and their future in horticulture and he told me that there are some immense benefits to LED. First is no wasted light, all the light emitted is within the plants usable spectrum. We all know this. He said the lifespan of the diodes is outstanding, very long life and very reliable performance, greatly outlasting any HID bulb as well as florescents . . . we knew this also. He said there is less heat produced with LEDS and that it typically flows right out the top of the fixture, although he did say it was more heat than he expected . .. but still less than HID.
He said it had drawbacks also, like lumens per watt was less far than impressive, but again all usable to the plants. He also said you had to keep the fixture very close to see growth rates comparable to the MH (which was placed 24" away) but that if you did so growth was excellent.
Our conversation lasted maybe 25 minutes and we spent the last of it talking about the future and his honest thoughts. He told me LEDs are great for people who can't afford the heat, that they are a great alternative and definitely a viable option, but for people who can control the heat and have a history with HID we may not get quite the results we've come to expect - it's just not quite the same he said.
He said that if he dropped the 400 MH lamp down to less than 15" and cooled it with an aircooled hood it outperformed the LEDs substantially, which makes sense because of the inverse square law, right? So that's a no brainer, but still you can't get the LEDs closer than what they were, meaning the LED system is fixed in that at point-blank in compared to 400 watt halide system about 2 feet away, but move the halide closer, and BAM, out-performs LEDs considerably . . . (again this is obvious, right?)
He said the main drawback is intensity. The amount of diodes required to equal a MH that is placed closer than 18" is still a little larger in total "area" than he'd like, meaning the fixture has such a large "footprint" that it's simply not possible to get the same amount of LED light to fall in a given area as HID light (provided you drop the HID down lower), and that given that fact HIDs will outperform LEDs until some technological change allowing more lumens per watt of LED light.
These are all his thoughts and experiences, not mine, I just wanted to share them as this guy was a very knowledgeable individual with a great deal of experience. He said that he still thinks LED will have role in the future and may even BE the future, adding that he had no crystal ball, and that in the long term not having to replace the diodes (or ballast, or bulbs) as well as reduced wattage because of more PAR light per watt aids in making the cost of an LED more realistic . . . but that right now, with what's currently available, it's cheaper to to cool an HID light and keep it closer than to invest in LED, and he said his experience in doing so has shown significantly better results with the HID . . . but with the HID not cooled and 24" away the results favored the LEDs . . .
I'd like LED GIRL to let me know her thoughts on this, but for now I thought I'd post it here and see what you all thought.
And before I come back and see someone line-by-line quoting my post and counter-pointing me, lol, let me just say that I've said all I know about this place and it's side by side grow, if I had more to share I'd have posted it.
MeanBean
Member
Megas there are long term costs you should account for to help justify the higher price. You prolly can get more bang for your buck with a bulb, but there's downfalls as well. If you HONESTLY Added Heat, electric, & replacement parts they would be close as of now as far as value.
I bet in a year or 2 the price will come down for you guys but that will also push bulb prices even cheaper. Doubght led will ever be as cheap just because of what goes into the 2 units.
I bet in a year or 2 the price will come down for you guys but that will also push bulb prices even cheaper. Doubght led will ever be as cheap just because of what goes into the 2 units.
MeanBean
Member
Yeah I'd say its safe to say 2- 7 years is the buffer that it takes some tech from NASA to get main Stream. Don;t make me dig up the news file, it aint been 20 years since they had sucess... maybe like 7 tops
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tokinafaty420
Wooden Eye
Member
LEDS well when someone provides a methodology that works for the everyman then Someone may be onto a winner. That is all you have to do, Show Joe the plumber how he can turn 400 into 5K and the things would sell themselves. however if not they wont.
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tokinafaty420
If I was wrong yes I will admit it. I'm not here to lie about anything. I read a few sources that put NASA starting to begin LED tests mid 80s and to get serious in the early 90s. LED technology itself was invented in the 60s.
Never will Happen not enough Penetration and not enough coverage
Well where are the decent nug shots?
The only LED nug shots ive seen were big fluffy fluffanoogin lookin airy shit.
Too be honest the whole grow will be popcorn.....unless you got 1 plant on a 1000 watt equivalent Led.
I almost spent $2500 on 1400 watt led and if this stuff worked I would Have but for 2500 I could get all I need and cover the electric bill
Greetings ICer's
I have read all the LED posts thinking my salvation has arrived. As a complete newb, not too mechanical, hoping money would solve potential heat issues of hid.
After seeing what is mostly 3rd grade science being referred to as controlled tests, I believe I need to rethink yet again.
What has really turned me off is the blatant BS of the manufacturer, first claim 126=400, when that didn't work, change parameters to GPW basis. Then whenever someone reminded said claim they get their head kicked in by ledgirl or mods.
There are much better cfl/pl-l grows, so for me it's either pl-l or 250 CMH.
Let me remind you, it's the skeptics who are doing the community a huge favor, as always, by insisting on proof. After all, it's a buyers market.
I have read all the LED posts thinking my salvation has arrived. As a complete newb, not too mechanical, hoping money would solve potential heat issues of hid.
After seeing what is mostly 3rd grade science being referred to as controlled tests, I believe I need to rethink yet again.
What has really turned me off is the blatant BS of the manufacturer, first claim 126=400, when that didn't work, change parameters to GPW basis. Then whenever someone reminded said claim they get their head kicked in by ledgirl or mods.
There are much better cfl/pl-l grows, so for me it's either pl-l or 250 CMH.
Let me remind you, it's the skeptics who are doing the community a huge favor, as always, by insisting on proof. After all, it's a buyers market.
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tokinafaty420
You can buy yourself a 400watt switchable lamp so you can run both HPS and MH bulbs in it. $220.
I just want to see some nice shots of nugs.. everything i've seen is airy/fluffy.. but im babyish for asking for nug shots..
This is way too silly. Now you are defining what is or isn't a "GOOD" nug. Some guys like skinny women, some prefer fat, and everything in between.
Do LEDs nugs get you any less stoned? I have some 'professional' smokers who tell me my LED nugs are as good as anything they have ever smoked.
GPW: so what exactly is the difference between .9 & 1.2?; to a personal use grower, not much!
And how skewed is that? If I grow one plant versus 4 plants doesn't the gpw increase 4 fold?
On one ounce that's a difference of 7.6 gms, but street prices are based on the ounce. Does the man on the street really care if the nugs are tight or fluffy? Sounds like somone has a Napolian complex.
Can we all agree that a 400 takes almost 4Xs the electricity? Over a 4 month long grow the added expense in not inconsequential, and needs to be factored into any intelligent discussion. And there's the rub.
Mean Bean it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. Why waste your time?
MeanBean
Member
i think one of the problems with led's is that they carry a lot of baggage from not being up to it in the past. i have one of the 1st generation 63 watt units from hydro-grow and am very impressed with the buds it is growing. no harvest for a week or so but these can definitely grow decent buds that are rock hard. not huge but remember this is 63 watts!
pics are at 8 weeks and the strain MMG goes 10 or a little longer
V.
pics are at 8 weeks and the strain MMG goes 10 or a little longer
V.
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cork144
i think people judge "good buds" by their size,
LED's arnt made for commercial grow ops, theyre for personal home grows,
the buds are no different they may just be smaller in size.
LED's arnt made for commercial grow ops, theyre for personal home grows,
the buds are no different they may just be smaller in size.
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