What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

uk clone only! (and british bred strains)

Status
Not open for further replies.

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
Some lovely yielding plants there fingaz, given how long you have been working on those, i take it you began with genes from imported weed? If so, i take it they would be Thai, African and Jamaican, as that what I mostly saw back in the day?

I'm not sure what can be done to maintain lines better in the Uk outdoor environment, could just be that the environment isn't conducive to high THC and you're fighting a losing battle trying to maintain the THC levels in a line when working outdoors?

I have a theory that the reason why most of the traditional 'sweet spots' of drug cannabis cultivation - the highlands of Colombia, Thailand, Sierra Madre range in Mexico, Hawaii, Himalayas, Jamaica, are all areas with high UV, so over generations, the plants adapt to this Uv by producing lots of trichomes and high levels of THC.

In Switzerland they have strains like Walliser Queen which is inbred from seeds picked out of imported weed bought in the Dam in 1971 and was measured at just under 21% THC a few years ago. Switzerland has much more UV than the Uk due to lower latitude and the alpine altitudes.

Strains developed outdoors in Holland aren't that potent in many cases (Purple Power, Passion #1, Holland's Hope etc.) Also there are the old Danish lines that have been maintained there for decades like leb27 and Thyphoon, which have mostly moderate potency plants but the odd pretty potent one.

Another thing that points to environment playing a big role in cannabinoid/terpenoid levels over generations is the decline in quality of the Dutch lines in the last 15 years, this is due to them being bred and maintained under HPS lighting which promotes high yield and low calyx to leaf ratio but lacks blue light so doesn't stimulate high levels of terpenoid production and lacks UV too, which I think over generations will reduce cannabinoid levels too.

Of course, will skillful breeding, you can fight nature and select for traits, but environment is so important, you cannot break the key equation:

phenotype = environment + genotype

You can only select from the phenotypes you are seeing and environment is a large factor. I think Shantibaba is a good example of how the outdoor environment is needed for top quality breeding, he does all his work outdoors, always has.

Sadly I think in the Uk, maintenance of a quality line is going to require either a highly tweaked indoor environment with a variety of different types of lighting to provide the full spectrum that cannabis needs or an outdoor environment under glass with supplemental lighting to compensate for the low levels of sunlight and UV.

I think there is still a lot of work to be done in determining the precise action spectrum of cannabis, you can just google the action spectra of many plants such as tobacco, tomato, peas, rice etc, it's research that has been done a long time back, but no-one has done it for cannabis yet. W already have a great understanding of the spectrum needed for large yield and strong vegetative growth, but we have a very poor understanding of the spectrum needed to stimulate terpenoid and cannabinoid production.

There is well established info on how UV plays a role in the filling of the glandular trichomes of Basil with essential oils, but very little on what role it plays in the filling of the glandular trichomes of cannabis with THC, people just haven't done the research with the cannabis plant because it's illegal, sadly.
 

Elevator Man

Active member
Mentor
Veteran
That Goldfinger's looking lovely Doc - maybe get those two tall stems bent back down to force some more side-growth? It's always trying to form a top bud is all, and the smaller ones down the stem can often get left behind. Looks great though - I just repotted my clones for another run soon - organic this time - can't wait...;)
 

DocLeaf

procreationist
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yeah dude,, we super-cropped her once,, but she doesn't like being tamed,, she's wild at heat ,, loving guano tea at 2.0 EC :D

Peace n love ppl
 

DocLeaf

procreationist
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Goldfinger,, Blues,, Cheese

picture.php
 
C

cheesey

my 4 psychosis babys lol

under a 600w in a 120cm sq darkroom . going to flower on wendsday after 4 weeks 12/12 will add a extra 400w





 

Fingaz2

Member
Indifferent, I think even in tropical regions weed can peak & tail off. Maybe by an accidental freak pollen gets in & the resulting progeny are devastating. Equally so the opposite can be true. A case in point is true Durban Poison. In the seventies it was absolutely incredible, hallucinagenic, powerfull weed. Try getting Durban Poison now? its ok but.... I would say Thai Sticks, Khon Khean Krippler (hope I spelt that right) not as strong now. Columbian Gold (whatever happened to that one) Even hash, Pakistani & Afghani black from the seventies. Maybe nostalgia has something to do with it. Maybe I am more acclimatized, or maybe....................
Back to these plants, they came from a mixture. The early flowering gene came from New Zealand. The sativa side was central American. Originally these sativas were force flowered before putting out in April.
They were pollinated unselectively, usually by the earlier folwering males. Simply beacause we couldnt get there in time to pull the early males. We were more in tune & always pulled the later males in time. This is our biggest mistake & the mistake of most breeders in the quest to get earlier flowering females. Slowly we began to get leafier & earlier strains, the sativa side started to disappear simply because we were after sinse bud, the later females didnt get poliinated. Finally we gave up but I still got a few seeds left, it seemed easier to just buy some seeds. We got taken in by the hype of the wonder strains out there, & ended up cynical & disappointed. So you were right, for a good outdoor plant my tip is to look at Canada or Denmark, unless anyone can still get hold of Friesland, if so I'll be begging on your doorstep.

Oh & stay away from ruderalis nothing any good will come later, which is why I love the danish stuff. They got it on man.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
cheesey - thats going to be one hell of a canopy of buds - respect mate

V.
 
C

cheesey

cheesey - thats going to be one hell of a canopy of buds - respect mate

V.

cheers mate . the dude who is looking after the psychosis for me has neva grown a mj plant in his life and neva used coco b4 . hes doing a wicked job not 1 leaf has tip burn ect ect . cant wait to see what the 4 plants yeild useing 1000watts . this grow is going to be fun .
 

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
Indifferent, I think even in tropical regions weed can peak & tail off. Maybe by an accidental freak pollen gets in & the resulting progeny are devastating. Equally so the opposite can be true. A case in point is true Durban Poison. In the seventies it was absolutely incredible, hallucinagenic, powerfull weed. Try getting Durban Poison now? its ok but.... I would say Thai Sticks, Khon Khean Krippler (hope I spelt that right) not as strong now. Columbian Gold (whatever happened to that one) Even hash, Pakistani & Afghani black from the seventies. Maybe nostalgia has something to do with it. Maybe I am more acclimatized, or maybe....................
Back to these plants, they came from a mixture. The early flowering gene came from New Zealand. The sativa side was central American. Originally these sativas were force flowered before putting out in April.
They were pollinated unselectively, usually by the earlier folwering males. Simply beacause we couldnt get there in time to pull the early males. We were more in tune & always pulled the later males in time. This is our biggest mistake & the mistake of most breeders in the quest to get earlier flowering females. Slowly we began to get leafier & earlier strains, the sativa side started to disappear simply because we were after sinse bud, the later females didnt get poliinated. Finally we gave up but I still got a few seeds left, it seemed easier to just buy some seeds. We got taken in by the hype of the wonder strains out there, & ended up cynical & disappointed. So you were right, for a good outdoor plant my tip is to look at Canada or Denmark, unless anyone can still get hold of Friesland, if so I'll be begging on your doorstep.

Oh & stay away from ruderalis nothing any good will come later, which is why I love the danish stuff. They got it on man.

Great post. I agree that selecting the earliest males is the best way to water down the potency and quality of a line. In a bad climate like the UK, probably the way to fight natural selection is to pull all but the latest males as the natural trend is for the early males to be the ones that pass on their genes and the later ones are either too late to be able to pollinate the females or are so late it's already so wet their pollen goes nowhere, where i live it can rain every day for weeks on end and rain always means pollen goes nowhere.

In Holland, they got obsessed with early finish and high yield so made selections for that, it ruined everything.

I can give a good example of how a classic strain was destroyed, the original classic Mazari. In Mazar, the legendary 'Milk of Mazar' hash was made from the latest flowering plants that didn't finish until December. Indoors, those phenos took 14 weeks. When they got the Mazar in Holland, they worked it to remove those late phenos and it became a strain that finished in max 9 weeks, then they crossed it to a skunk to improve it. Well, it needed no improvement if they hadn't fucked it up by selecting for the early phenos it would have needed improving with some skunk! And besides, to them, improvement just meant more yield and more bag appeal.

I expect the original Mazari lines are gone now, there will still be some good lines in that area but the original pre-Soviet lines will be either gone or polluted.

I agree that the import we get these days doesn't compare to the quality we used to get. I think this is down to one main reason - demand. In the early 70s, Lebanese and Afghani hash was smuggled in by the suitcase load, by the early 80s it was truckloads, by the 90s, shiploads. The country of origin changed and Morocco and elsewhere took up the slack due to the wars in Lebanon and Afghanistan and the rif cannot produce enough hash for the whole of europe, so they cut it with other things to make it go further. Even in the early 80s when there was still mostly great hash coming to europe, it still had things like henna and ghee in it, I doubt much unadulterated hash ever gets out of the country of origin. But Afghani Black with a little bit of ghee in it is lovely, hardly anyone would turn up their noses at it.

But the levels of contaminatnants went up and up till we got to the point where it was more contaminant than hash. A lot of the adulteration is done en ruote by the Russian mafia or the Turkish mafia ad they put all sorts in it from animal dung to vinyl from old records, just look at the govt analyses of seized hash, they find some horrible stuff in it these days. Soap Bar, they cut it so much that they have to add animal tranquilisers, sleeping pills and other shit to give it some 'stone' again.

I think the demand is the big reason, to meet the demand that exists is europe, the entire rif mountains, the whole of the Bekaa Valley, all of the Kush and Himalayas would have to be producing at max levels and that is never gonna happen as long as it's illegal and idiots in europe are still prepared to buy crappy hash. If everyone refused to buy crap hash, it would go back to the way it used to be - the hash was good but there was never enough to go round.

Now, buds, we used to get lots of great Jamaican, African and Thai, but the Thai disappeared by the end of the 70s, I have never seen great Thai in the UK, I've seen a lot of good SE Asian grass, but nothing like the original stuff and no-one my age has, if they say they have, they are wrong, because the US sponsored eradication efforts and the fact they machine gunned a lot of poor farmers for growing weed in Thailand meant that by the end of the 70s, the original Thai genepool was gone. It is a sad fact that you cannot find original Thai genes in Thailand anymore, the genepool was destroyed.

I don't know about South Africa, I expect not much has changed down there, probably the reason we don't get the quality we used to is more to do with how it's shipped and how it's grown than the genes. But I don't know enough about SA to really say. I know a lot of weed is also grown in Nigeria, Ghana and Gambia for the european market, but I have no idea about those genes, I will have grown seeds from those places in the past as I've grown more bagseed than anyone I know!

Jamaica, well I grew up on Jamaican weed and it used to fuck me up regularly, we even got hand rubbed Jamaican 'gum' hash from time to time and that was the strongest hash I have ever encountered, even homemade bubble and oil is not as strong, well, some batches from things like Trainwreck and Herijuana have been, but the best Jamaican gum was as strong as anything I have even come across and people used to ring me whenever anything good turned up cos I was always delighted to swap homegrown product for exotic import hash or weed so I saw most of the good stuff that came through the city I was living in back then.

Mexico, well I've travelled a bit there and there is still a lot of weed there, but a lot of it is crap these days, I'm told by many people who have been involved in smuggling Mexican grass that the DEA eradication in the 70s was too effective and virtually all the original great strains like Oaxaca, Michoacan, Zacatecas Purple, Guerrero, Sinaloan, Sonoran etc is gone, they had to import genes from Cali and Holland in the 80s to replace their lost crops sprayed with Paraquat. I heard a tale that the indians in the high remote valley where Zacatecas Purple came from had been reduced to trying to grow from the seeds they picked out of weed they had bought elsewhere.

Colombia, I think they still have all the old stuff , just they export mostly cocaine nowadays and have done since the early 80s, and who is gonna go to the highlands of Colombia to look for seeds? Good way to die if you are not a local.

I have a wonderful Colombian Gold line, a friend just pulled 16oz off one plant under a 600 in ebb n flow, i have given seeds out to lots of oldtimers and many have said it is the same smell/taste as they remember. Several cuts of it are held around the world, I know it's considered the best weed they ever had in Moravia, Czech Republic, I sent seeds over there years ago as they have a mediterranean climate in summer and can finish it outdoors. I sent em some crosses too but they think the pure version smells so good they prefer that.

Few pics of colombians and hybrids in Moravia.
 

Attachments

  • update 012.jpg
    update 012.jpg
    196.4 KB · Views: 9
  • vbpgimage2.php.jpg
    vbpgimage2.php.jpg
    135.8 KB · Views: 7
  • vbpgimage.php.jpg
    vbpgimage.php.jpg
    105.7 KB · Views: 8
  • IMGP0841-03-12-07.jpg
    IMGP0841-03-12-07.jpg
    68.6 KB · Views: 7

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
Some more Colombian pics, sucks you can only upload 4 per post!
 

Attachments

  • IMGP0843-03-12-07.jpg
    IMGP0843-03-12-07.jpg
    89.3 KB · Views: 8
  • IMGP0842-03-12-07.jpg
    IMGP0842-03-12-07.jpg
    91.7 KB · Views: 7
  • IMGP0379-12-09-07.jpg
    IMGP0379-12-09-07.jpg
    118.5 KB · Views: 6
  • IMGP0032.jpg
    IMGP0032.jpg
    96.1 KB · Views: 9

harold

Member
I have a wonderful Colombian Gold line, a friend just pulled 16oz off one plant under a 600 in ebb n flow, i have given seeds out to lots of oldtimers and many have said it is the same smell/taste as they remember. Several cuts of it are held around the world, I know it's considered the best weed they ever had in Moravia, Czech Republic, I sent seeds over there years ago as they have a mediterranean climate in summer and can finish it outdoors. I sent em some crosses too but they think the pure version smells so good they prefer that.

Beautiful indifferent! i take it those columbian gold pics weren't done in the uk? :)

Can you describe the columbian gold smell? taste etc.....

It would be wonderful to have an auto columbian gold...
 

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
They are all from Czech Republic. I tried it outdoors here and they got to 4 foot and just starting to flower when a cow ate most of them.

Out of the first 4 pics, they are all pure CG apart from the last one which was a CG dom pheno of the CG x (CGxLR) I did. Second four, first one is a pure CG cutting, second is an indica pheno of the CG x (CG x LR) and last two are the CG dom pheno.

Here's some more pics, first one is pure CG, second two I think are a hybrid, last one is a CG x (CGxLR) done indoors, yielded immense I'm told.

The CG smell/taste is sandalwood, spice, tobacco, nutty, beautiful. I have a plan to cross it to the Highland Oaxacan Gold cutting later this year, that one could be my new personal headstash as both the lumbo and the Oaxacan have been personal faves ever since first grown.

Call me old fashioned but I much prefer these type of dreamy uplifting sativas to anything modern, in short, modern hybrids mostly such imho, sure they taste good but where's the character? It's all mongy stare at the wall stuff, high THC without an interesting blends of accessory cannabinoids and terpenoids is not that appealing to me, it's like drinking Special Brew when I prefer to sip a fine wine or a good Kentucky bourbon.

I'd be happy to donate genetics to an auto Colombian project, I think I have a few of the CG x (CGxLR) left although you won't see much lowryder in them, they are colombian dominant all the way and the smells and tastes are very nostalgic, it's a very productive line too, even i couldn't mess up the CG genes too much, they are strong, stable and breed true, I worked on a Colombian x Hawaiian line for a while but ran into hermies at the f2 and f3 stage so gave up on that one, not sure whether the hermies were from the colombian or hawaiian sides.
 

Attachments

  • 10010aa90_004_Small_.jpg
    10010aa90_004_Small_.jpg
    47.3 KB · Views: 7
  • IMGP0013.jpg
    IMGP0013.jpg
    108.1 KB · Views: 11
  • IMGP9906.jpg
    IMGP9906.jpg
    95.6 KB · Views: 7
  • IMGP0367-12-09-07.jpg
    IMGP0367-12-09-07.jpg
    94.6 KB · Views: 6
Last edited:

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
Yeah, I used a none AF lowryder female which I dusted with CG pollen then took the most Cg leaning CG x LR male and crossed that to a CG female so the line has genes from both male and female Colombians, the LR is just there to make it shorter and chunkier.

First two pics are the LR female, last two are from the CG x (CGxLR) pictured earlier grown by a friend, I remember he waxed lyrical about the smell and taste of that plant at the time.
 

Attachments

  • P1010010-31st-August.jpg
    P1010010-31st-August.jpg
    68.1 KB · Views: 7
  • P1010030.jpg
    P1010030.jpg
    84 KB · Views: 6
  • GOB 9 1
    GOB 9 1
    77.1 KB · Views: 22
  • 10010aa87_002_Small_.jpg
    10010aa87_002_Small_.jpg
    71.4 KB · Views: 4

bigwity

Active member
Veteran
the strain im growing has deep green leaves but the edges have a blue tint and the ones from the bud area are like a light greeny blue in colour. really pretty
 

EddieShoestring

Florist
Veteran
great pics and info , Fingaz

I agree that the import we get these days doesn't compare to the quality we used to get. I think this is down to one main reason - demand.

indifferent-good summary of the hash/weed scene. I agree with what you guys are saying about the decline in quality-but it is more than just demand, although demand is a significant variable-it is about costs. When demand for, say, oil, grain or whatever, rises this is normally reflected in a hike in the price. But in illegal, unregulated markets other factors come into play. With illegal drugs- fluctuations in supply rarely translate into a rise in price-they are absorbed by changing quality/purity.

We can see this operating with virtually all illegal drugs-even the nasty ones; the prices have hardly shifted in 30years. Not the same with legal drugs. A pint of 6X was 40p ina pub 30years ago-now it is around £3. Whereas the black hash that i used to smoke with my 40p pint was, say £80/ozzyosbourne-it still is.

It has happened with weed too. Production costs have been rising in recent years-think about energy prices-and yet, until recently, the retail price was stuck at around £160-because of this large scale producers/suppliers had to find a way to claw back their profit margins hence the adulteration with glass/grit and the sale of increasingly wet shit.

Stringer Bell was onto this marketing stratagy in The Wire. When his crew lost their connection to 'the good stuff' they simply rebranded (ie put a diff colour top on the viles and cut their shit so as to retain their profits)

not really about ukclone Only-but interesting nonetheless

cheers
eddieS
 

indifferent

Active member
Veteran
I agree mate, contaminants due to people not wanting to pay what he price for top quality actually should be. Even in Amsterdam now, great quality afghan hash is very rare, not seen any in 4-5 years, there is still good quality hash of course, but there's more and more adulterated stuff.

Reminds me of the Austrians putting anti-freeze in their cheap white wine years ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top