Fungus gnats!!!!! Organic control methods

[guest2012y]

quote=grapeman,"What always amazes me is the drive to be organic. Don't get me wrong, I'm doing an organic grow at the moment. But obviously neem oil kills lots of insects discriminately. Just because it comes from a tree makes it no safer then an off the shelf modern pesticide really. Probably the off the shelf pesticide is safer in the long run. Just saying."

Neem has been used as a medicine,an anticeptic,and all kinds of stuff for thousands of years. Just Google neem as a medicine and check it out Grapeman. you'll trip out on all it's uses. Peace Bro

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Neem is my weapon of chioce. I do believe it will only kill the insects that injest neem?? I have read some people claim neem doesnt kill beneficial insect...

Wouldnt that be amazing!

Its sposed to be a powerful plant/mammal tonic also.

A combo with pyrthum is also effective for a faster kill... but think this will kill the good insects more

 

[rrog]

What does the group think of goGnats? Cedar product

 

[Clackamas Coot]

What does the group think of goGnats? Cedar product

rrog

I wasn't familiar with this product until you mentioned it a few days ago and it's the cedar component that is interesting to me.

We know that cedar planks are used in closets to reduce wool-eating moths and the use of cedar to line storage chests to hold back mold, etc.

Having said that, I also saw an upcoming product from Neptune's Harvest (the fish enzyme people) last summer and they had some samples and product sheets on 'cedar pellets' that are to be mixed into potting soils and as a top-dressing amendment in traditional vegetable gardens.

Doing a search for 'cedar insecticide' and there a number of products out there - some for commercial use as well as for the home gardener.

It sounds like some companies have done their homework.

CC

 

[guest2012y]

SilverSurfer OG,...somewhere in the beginnings of this thread is an article on how it affects other soil micro organisms...not sure about it being selective on non-benificial insects. Reclining Buddah GREAT strain...had that for a couple years...the flavor and yield rocks,and the buzz follows nicely.

rrog,...Also somewhere in the beginnings of this thread there is somewhat of a chat about Gognats.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Neem is my weapon of chioce. I do believe it will only kill the insects that injest neem?? I have read some people claim neem doesnt kill beneficial insect...

Wouldnt that be amazing!

Its sposed to be a powerful plant/mammal tonic also.

A combo with pyrthum is also effective for a faster kill... but think this will kill the good insects more

SilverSurfer

You are correct - neem tree products do not harm beneficial insects [cite]

Neem oil has many complex active ingredients. Rather than being simple poisons, those ingredients are similar to the hormones that insects produce. Insects take up the neem oil ingredients just like natural hormones.

Neem enters the system and blocks the real hormones from working properly. Insects "forget" to eat, to mate, or they stop laying eggs. Some forget that they can fly. If eggs are produced they don't hatch, or the larvae don't moult.

Obviously insects that are too confused to eat or breed will not survive. The population eventually plummets, and they disappear. The cycle is broken.

How precisely it works is difficult for scientists to find out. There are too many different active substances in neem oil, and every insect species reacts differently to neem insecticide.

Neem oil does not hurt beneficial insects. Only chewing and sucking insects are affected. It is certainly fascinating.

Like real hormones, neem oil insecticide works at very low concentrations, in the parts per million range. A little neem oil goes a long way.

But this is not something that happens over night. People spray neem oil as insecticide, and expect everything to die instantly, because that's what they are used to from chemical poisons. When that does not happen they conclude neem insecticide does not work.

Bottom line is neem tree extracts are NOT a miticide. Or a 'gnaticide' (is that a word?), etc. but rather an important tool (among others) to keep gardens thriving.

HTH

CC

 

[guest2012y]

SilverSurfer

You are correct - neem tree products do not harm beneficial insects [cite]Bottom line is neem tree extracts are NOT a miticide. Or a 'gnaticide' (is that a word?), etc. but rather an important tool (among others) to keep gardens thriving.

HTH

CC

So this is why all my happy little soil mites are still crusing around unaffected............nice!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

So this is why all my happy little soil mites are still crusing around unaffected............nice!

Probably so........

Until you can break the reproduction cycle then you'll have difficulty eradicating these insects from your garden. I would recommend a neem seed meal tea (with kelp) to stop the eggs from hatching since gnats are not a plant eating insect.

Just a thought.

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Probably so........

Until you can break the reproduction cycle then you'll have difficulty eradicating these insects from your garden. I would recommend a neem seed meal tea (with kelp) to stop the eggs from hatching since gnats are not a plant eating insect.

Just a thought.

CC

I only worry about the effects on my microflora.....or I would have two weeks ago.......somewhere back in this thread I posted a link to a study about it.......from what I recall,and read from that particular study was something about how it allows some species to thrive while wiping others out.....could be wrong....short term memory issues ya know.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Capt.Cheeze1

Have you tried/considered using vinegar traps?

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Capt.Cheeze1

Have you tried/considered using vinegar traps?

CC

My dogs beak lures them in pretty good...........Hmmmm
No,but I do use them on fruit flys in the summer.....Not that it is as out of control as it was when I first had that bail of sunshine that came with two million,but I'm just tired of seeing even 3 day.....and where you see one there is no doubt more. The thing that BUGS me about them is the fact that they DO go after young seedlings and seeds....I have a lot of that action going on at the moment and I can't stand to see em. What's your take on neem and burning leaves?. I have not doused the plants heavily,but would like to.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

What's your take on neem and burning leaves?. I have not doused the plants heavily,but would like to.

You can definitely burn the plant leaves by high-dosing.

On the label of the specific brand of neem seed oil that I use (Dyna-Gro Neem Seed Oil) it used to recommend that you would mix 1.5 tsp. per quart of water (with an equal amount of either liquid silicon or yucca extract) and on young rooted cuttings (transplanted) and seedlings it burned them to the point that it arrested any new development for several days.

I cut the amount back to 1 tsp. and things worked as intended. Someone told me Dyna-Gro has changed their recommended amount. If so then that's a good thing.

So yes - use the correct amount and smaller amounts applied more often is better than a single high-dose, IMHO

CC

 

[guest2012y]

I have the same brand and before I took off that flapping in the wind fold out lable,I believe it did say just 1 teaspoon per quart. That's what I was afraid of and I'm glad I didn't do it. For the lack of instant kill power it has,I still keep buying it year after year. It works on spider mites very well for me. I think I don't have any...yeah right. Just recently I started using it for the gnats. If it does disrupt the life cycle,then I think I am just now beginning to notice the effects. The lack of a sizable population was my first clue.

 

[mad librettist]

Neem oil is most definitely a miticide, and despite vague citations from sites without citations of their own, does anyone have any evidence that neem oil dies not harm predatory mites? Because it blasts the shit out of spider mites. Which are not insects, btw, and most definitely suck.

What about predatory gnats? Again, if it hurts fungus gnats it hurts predatory gnats. Nature is not divided into "harmful" and "beneficial". There are classes and families if you want to sort them out. So while we know for instance that neem oil does not hurt ladybugs, we also know that it therefore is useless against squash beetle, a close cousin that looks very similar, and while important in the web of life, is not immediately useful. It chews.

We really need to stop worshiping this stuff and start asking for real evidence. Have we traded putting a bandaid on the engine light for putting an organic bandaid on the oil light?

 

[guest2012y]

Neem oil is most definitely a miticide, and despite vague citations from sites without citations of their own, does anyone have any evidence that neem oil dies not harm predatory mites? Because it blasts the shit out of spider mites. Which are not insects, btw, and most definitely suck.

What about predatory gnats? Again, if it hurts fungus gnats it hurts predatory gnats. Nature is not divided into "harmful" and "beneficial". There are classes and families if you want to sort them out. So while we know for instance that neem oil does not hurt ladybugs, we also know that it therefore is useless against squash beetle, a close cousin that looks very similar.

We really need to stop worshiping this stuff and start asking for real evidence.

First of all leave "me" out of "we" when it comes to the term "worship".....I'm on a positive learning experience here,I collect information from here and elsewhere,do my own research,and then apply it to what I do. Since I am a generous and humble person,I share what I learn on my own,and what I experience from this forum with others who hopefully do the same in a non-argumentative way. I state observations,this is not gospel,these observations and gathered information may or may not be fact. What works is what works,the only person who can say what works for sure is yourself. If I find something that works for me,I share it and invite anyone to try it for themselves. If it works for you,then it worked! And at the very least of all this sorting through information,we may make a friend or two.

 

[mad librettist]

I'm making a strong argument. Don't read too much into the rhetorical "we". I can't mention every exception, and I do include myself.

If you must know, I find your posts in this thread very helpful. I just can't vote anymore today.

 

[rrog]

Mad L, I think you have a lot to contribute. The issue is (If I can be allowed to say this) is your attitude. You appear scolding and grumpy a lot, so your very valid points may be lost as people take up a defensive posture. I'm sure you don't mean to come across that way at all.

Personally I'm glad you're here, but we're a mellow group. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm just trying to extend the olive branch.

 

[mad librettist]

move it to my profile page please. all this personal shit is just clutter to someone searching or lurking. I don't mind, really. I wanted to balance out the careless words here, like "does not hurt beneficials". WTF? does not hurt beneficials? how vague and useless and meaningless can a statement get? And no, it's not stupid to believe it. I am a smart guy, and it took a lifetime pesticide salesman to open my eyes on this one.

btw, it only looks like scolding because I AM scolding myself and including the organic community at large. If I couch this in flattery and beat around the bush, will you be more likely to consider what I say and reject or accept it? My skeptical energy is only in proportion to the blind adulation I see.

anyway just take the point, reject it, accept it, denounce it, whatever. But don't bore people by talking about me.

 

[rrog]

I can't obviously tell about my micro-herd, but there's no evidence of gnats after my application of goGnats last Tuesday. I'm going to pull a sample of res water with a syringe and check for live larvae.

 

[guest2012y]

I can't obviously tell about my micro-herd, but there's no evidence of gnats after my application of goGnats last Tuesday. I'm going to pull a sample of res water with a syringe and check for live larvae.

I have noticed the larvae drown in water...the only place I could begin to guess where they will be is near or on the roots themselves. If not feeding on moist decomposing plant matter in any location of your space.