Does pollen amount seed quality?

[PooBear]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before,

If this makes any sense to you, have a look.

Lets say you have 2 clones of the same plant. Lets say a poly-hybrid. Now let's say one clone was dusted with enough pollen to make 5 seeds. Then the second clone was fully pollinated and produced 1000's of seeds.

Let's say you take the 5 seeds from the first clone and five random seeds from the second clone and grow them out. Will the first clone produce progeny more desirable in traits then the five random seeds from the second clone?

I guess what I'm asking is, "Will the plant produce better progeny with a lower pollination rate opposed to full on pollination or doesn't it matter?"

Do I make any sense?

PooBear.

 

[exploziv]

I think the genetic material will be the same quality in both cases, but the seeds quality can be better in case of a small batch of seeds on a big plant, just because the plant has more energy to develop only a few seeds.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

"I think the genetic material will be the same quality in both cases, but the seeds quality can be better in case of a small batch of seeds on a big plant, just because the plant has more energy to develop only a few seeds." Exactamundo. Making seeds taxes the plant more than making buds, so fewer seeds on a plant will ensure that they're stronger seeds. Genetically, the seeds from both clones will be identical.

 

[PooBear]

I understand genetically they will be identical. The variations in phenos between thousands of seeds and five seeds will not be.

Will the five seed plant produce superior phenos vs. random selected seeds from the fully pollinated plant? Will the plant produce it's best genetic combination to a less seeded plant?

Like, will it say hmm, I can only make five seeds. I better make sure they are the best possible progeny I can make opposed to hmm, I've got to make thousands of seeds, I'm going to roll the dice and and anything is possible retarded offspring and all.

Do I make since or should I put the bong down?

Poobear.

 

[htownblowskush]

I honestly think your thinking to much..lol..I dont think it works that way or maybe it does

 

[amoril]

I understand genetically they will be identical. The variations in phenos between thousands of seeds and five seeds will not be.

Will the five seed plant produce superior phenos vs. random selected seeds from the fully pollinated plant? Will the plant produce it's best genetic combination to a less seeded plant?

Like, will it say hmm, I can only make five seeds. I better make sure they are the best possible progeny I can make opposed to hmm, I've got to make thousands of seeds, I'm going to roll the dice and and anything is possible retarded offspring and all.

Do I make since or should I put the bong down?

Poobear.

im addressing the bolded statement, as I think its all inclusive, and not redundant.

the probability that a seed is a desirable phenotype will be the same for seeds from either clone.

the kicker, is that the probability that you have the desired phenotype, will actually be greater from the heavily seeded clone. the reason is, its entirely possible that from the 5 seed clone, you get 5 retarded plants, 5 males, or both. from a larger seed-pool, say 100 seeds, youve got 95 more chances to find the "keeper"

so, IMO, the real gamble is in limiting the production number of your seeds. If you produce enough of them, youll get what youre after, somewhere in the lot. However, there is no way to influence the probability of specific gene transfers to promote the occurance of a specific phenotype, you just have to play the game

 

[PooBear]

im addressing the bolded statement, as I think its all inclusive, and not redundant.

the probability that a seed is a desirable phenotype will be the same for seeds from either clone.

the kicker, is that the probability that you have the desired phenotype, will actually be greater from the heavily seeded clone. the reason is, its entirely possible that from the 5 seed clone, you get 5 retarded plants, 5 males, or both. from a larger seed-pool, say 100 seeds, youve got 95 more chances to find the "keeper"

so, IMO, the real gamble is in limiting the production number of your seeds. If you produce enough of them, youll get what youre after, somewhere in the lot. However, there is no way to influence the probability of specific gene transfers to promote the occurance of a specific phenotype, you just have to play the game

Out of those hundred seeds pick five seeds to grow. Will they be more desirable than the plant with five seeds? What if the ones picked are all male or retarded plants or both?

Which would yield better results? Pollinate a full plant and grow only a few seeds or make only what you plan to grow?

Who should roll the dice? The plant? Or the person? Who is better at the selection process?

Something to ponder.

Poobear.

 

[amoril]

Out of those hundred seeds pick five seeds to grow. Will they be more desirable than the plant with five seeds? What if the ones picked are all male or retarded plants or both?

Which would yield better results? Pollinate a full plant and grow only a few seeds or make only what you plan to grow?

Who should roll the dice? The plant? Or the person? Who is better at the selection process?

Something to ponder.

Poobear.

they have equal probability with any other seeds from that parentage. Pick 5 from your 100, and theyre no different than if you had only produced 5 seeds from your clone.

in fact, its just as likely that you pull 5 retarded or male plants. the difference is, if you produced 100 seeds, and grow 5 of them to find all undesirable mutants and males, you still have 95 chances to find something appealing.

if you only produce 5 seeds, and strike out 5 times, youre out of luck.

the seeds will follow the same gene distribution probabilities, regardless of how many seeds are produced along side of them. might as well give yourself as many chances to succeed as you can, IMO.

 

[Megas]

I think you'd have better results pollinating more areas on amount than a heavy amount in one area with the same amount if anything.

 

[Fuel]

My 2 cents.

Lets say you have 2 clones of the same plant. Lets say a poly-hybrid.
So two clones of a 4way.

Now let's say one clone was dusted with enough pollen to make 5 seeds. Then the second clone was fully pollinated and produced 1000's of seeds.

To have only 5 seeds after a pollen dust is not possible.
A fully pollenated clone give from 300 seeds in SOG to over 1 kilogrammer of seeds in tree.

You have to experiment the hybridism only, without project, for meet the seeded cycle and be less losted technically. Seriously.

Let's say you take the 5 seeds from the first clone and five random seeds from the second clone and grow them out. Will the first clone produce progeny more desirable in traits then the five random seeds from the second clone?

Desirable traits ? You don't mention any analysis of dominance and recessivity before... so no, for the twos cases you're in blind test because you don't known the genetic map simply.

The two clones will produce exactly the same probability of offspring because they are living the exact same fertilization. If your hypotesis was justified, the production of cannabis seeds in large squale will be impossible.

Now you have one parameter wich is totally outside the geneticall consideration, it's the quality of the clone itself. Like with sinsemilla, all have not the same chance to produce the more by example, even if born from the same plant initially. It's conditionned to where you have taken the clone, his lenght, form, located hormons and level of nutrients on the original plant.. the list is very long.

So, the other option you have is a bad clone in one of the two possibillity and have a crap offspring from, generally by a majority of immature seeds.

For enter in an absolute theory wich can't by definition be real; for access the accuracy you speak about you have to control each grain of pollen of your pollen and each pistil. Millions.

I guess what I'm asking is, "Will the plant produce better progeny with a lower pollination rate opposed to full on pollination or doesn't it matter?"

It doesn't matter, the market's seed production is based on. The freshness and maturing of the pollen and the female flowers can have an influence on offspring but it's mecanicall.

Make seeds is nice. But without knowning with wich phenotytpes you play, it's just to make seeds in a blind program.

In this vein, don't crush your mind with genetic laws etc...play with feeling, and enjoy your fresh seeds. You're awarded by this way too if your searches in strains have a sense, the market have proven it isn't it ?

All the best for your peojects

 

[VerdantGreen]

you can get 100 seeds by pollinating just one medium bud. as has been said above they will be the same pheno spread/probability however many you make.

but what if it turns out to be a killer strain? if you only made 5 seeds and grew them all out there would be no more - whearas if you made 100 you would have some backup and plenty of seeds for future breeding/selections.

V.