Canna, I Hate to ask, but can you get some pictures of them without the HPS light on.... orange light is too hard to see the coloration of the plant and where it's being affected at......
Split from : The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles!
Cannasmoke
Member
no problems ill get them tomorrow.
thehappyguy
Member
interesting, i figured since RO worked well for plants, it would be the same for distilled, but i had never thought about it lacking many micronutrients that are in tap water...perhaps i'll switch to tap water once i finish off all of my distilled.
to remedy the problem i have done the following, which i must not have mentioned: i have dolomite lime in the soil now, i have been foliar feeding with dolomite lime, sometimes water with lime in the water and now i plan on adding big bloom to my grow big formula for a little extra micronutrient.
i would get cal/mag and just solve all my problems really quickly, but the nearest hydro store is an hour+ away
Happy, then your plants will do fine then, it will slowly go away, dolomite lime is released slower over time, so with the size of your plant you will be alright. Damaged leaves won't recover so make sure it's not spreading to areas that did not have it before.
thehappyguy
Member
there is something happening to the new growth, but it's just that the tips of the leaves are yellowing, but only the tips. iirc this is something i can fix by giving my nutes, i just haven't been able to feed because of my laundry list of previous problems (3x concentrated nute solution lol, stupid stoner mistakes) since i had been flushing and didn't feed right when i transplanted. regardless, my plants are looking much better now, thank you for giving me some peace of mind lettin me know im doing the right thing.
FinestKind
Member
Hello Stitch (and everyone else)...
I wanted to wait until I bought that pH meter before reporting back and asking any more questions, which I have done.
And this is the little experiment I am conducting:
I have 48 plants growing total (they are in 10" Azalea pots, btw, which is something you asked... they would probably be called "2 gallon containers", although we all know that they hold less than that.) They were vegged for a total of 2 weeks (after the cloning period of 2 weeks), and I have 1 per square foot on my tables.
6 of them I flushed tonight with 2 gallons per plant of H2O- I chose the least healthy looking ones for this part of the experiment. The overall runoff (I mixed all the water together and then took the pH) had a pH of 6.0. The initial pH of the water (which I had left for a few days in a large reservoir to come up to temp) was 6.4. My well water usually tests at around 6.0, so I wonder if the sitting has something to do with the rise? (and yes, the pH meter auto-compensates for temperature) (This is marked as "blue flag" in the photo)
6 of them I doubled up the nutrients I had been using and giving them their 2nd feeding in a row at this strength. The pH of the nutrient solution (which I didn't add any Cal/Mag to, as you suggested I should have enough in the soil with the lime I've added) was exactly 6.0. The runoff on the one I tested had a pH of 5.8. ("Green Flag" in the photo)
The rest I watered as per usual, although with perhaps a little more than usual, allowing quite a bit to run off for each plant. This represents the "feed every other watering" group. ("No flag" in the photo)
I'll update the photos in a week and see where we've gotten since then... there will probably be one more feeding for each set before then.
As far as the Pro Mix, when I didn't add any lime before, by the end of the grow my pH was reading 5.0 (granted, this was with the drop-based test kit, so it could have been anywhere between 4.6 and 5.4, in theory)...
Oh one more thing: my hydro guy definitely grows weed
He doesn't know everything, but he has definitely been doing it a long time and has a very science-based approach to things. I (mostly) trust his judgement, although I still come to you guys for a second (and third and fourth...) opinion. I'll say it one more time: ICMAG ROCKS!!So, with those pH's I've listed above, do you think I'm at least in the ballpark range of where things should be? I'm at week 5 in this grow- should I just lay off the Cal/Mag for the rest of the grow? Oh, and without using hydrated lime, if I wanted to adjust my soil pH, how should I do it? Should I just leave it alone for now? Should I NOT pH my nutrient solution with pH up? To around 6.3 or something?
Thanks again, Stitch!!
FK
Attachments
Last edited:
Cannasmoke
Member
so no pics yet but more info, I had water prepared for a flush, but, the newer growth seems to be fairly fine but lacking in colour, so I decided I would just water until run off, roughly put 2 litres through the pot, the pH was 5.6, the water I put through the pot was atleast 5.9, in coco ive heard 5.8-6.2 is ideal, then again, ive been told not to even bother measuring run-off from coco, I took someones advice and have been watering daily for the last few days with plain ph'd water, the new growth seems to indicate that things are getting better but still have my worrys, few more days and if it seems to be recovering then ill slowly introduce nutes to it again, what ya think?
I will get those pics hopefully tomorrow.
When you flush your plants out, unfortunately you also flush out the nutes with it so when you flush good you wash out nutes that was in the soil already so you end up having to feed before a certain date with how long your plants have been in the mixture.
LEaves will come out slightly discolored lighter green, once they are near full size it gets to the proper shade of green.
You have pictures of the newer growth?
Hello Stitch (and everyone else)...
I wanted to wait until I bought that pH meter before reporting back and asking any more questions, which I have done.
And this is the little experiment I am conducting:
I have 48 plants growing total (they are in 10" Azalea pots, btw, which is something you asked... they would probably be called "2 gallon containers", although we all know that they hold less than that.) They were vegged for a total of 2 weeks (after the cloning period of 2 weeks), and I have 1 per square foot on my tables.
6 of them I flushed tonight with 2 gallons per plant of H2O- I chose the least healthy looking ones for this part of the experiment. The overall runoff (I mixed all the water together and then took the pH) had a pH of 6.0. The initial pH of the water (which I had left for a few days in a large reservoir to come up to temp) was 6.4. My well water usually tests at around 6.0, so I wonder if the sitting has something to do with the rise? (and yes, the pH meter auto-compensates for temperature) (This is marked as "blue flag" in the photo)
6 of them I doubled up the nutrients I had been using and giving them their 2nd feeding in a row at this strength. The pH of the nutrient solution (which I didn't add any Cal/Mag to, as you suggested I should have enough in the soil with the lime I've added) was exactly 6.0. The runoff on the one I tested had a pH of 5.8. ("Green Flag" in the photo)
The rest I watered as per usual, although with perhaps a little more than usual, allowing quite a bit to run off for each plant. This represents the "feed every other watering" group. ("No flag" in the photo)
I'll update the photos in a week and see where we've gotten since then... there will probably be one more feeding for each set before then.
As far as the Pro Mix, when I didn't add any lime before, by the end of the grow my pH was reading 5.0 (granted, this was with the drop-based test kit, so it could have been anywhere between 4.6 and 5.4, in theory)...
Oh one more thing: my hydro guy definitely grows weed
So, with those pH's I've listed above, do you think I'm at least in the ballpark range of where things should be? I'm at week 5 in this grow- should I just lay off the Cal/Mag for the rest of the grow? Oh, and without using hydrated lime, if I wanted to adjust my soil pH, how should I do it? Should I just leave it alone for now? Should I NOT pH my nutrient solution with pH up? To around 6.3 or something?
Thanks again, Stitch!!
FK
Ya, when you let water sit out it will rise a little bit; with you having well water it goes through a filtration system.... kinda like RO water....
Those ranges are in the proper range, but you must keep them stable, the feed every other watering comment is correct
Your nutes could be bringing the pH down a bit and when you go and feed them they might not have used all the nutes up and when you feed more.... not to mention when you water as like you do you partialy flush the plants out so the plants don't sit in nutes as bad as it would have if the watering was not frequent.
I would keep the pH about 6.0 or slightly both ways......
I would most defiantly lay off the cal mag for now
Yes, leave it the way it is for now.
Depending on which nutrient you are using..... determines if or when you should pH adjust it; which nutrient are you speaking off that you use pH adjusters?
Newer growth has a lack of green up to a certain point.... if they have fully 3 fingered leaves and still look very light; then it may be a problem.... without pictures it's very hard to determine it.
Yes, after they recover is when you reintroduce nutes; when you do start how low and very slowly work your way up.... pictures would help a ton if you could get them. People who say not to pH adjust all depends, because you would have to use the same type of nutes they are using and so forth; some strains are way more forgiving of accidents like overfert over water pH not stable and so on.....
Some are so picky where like just one thing is off and they fuss.
What is the pH of your water before you adjust it? because depending on what you use to pH adjust it can conflict in the soil.... have you watered with just plain un pH'd water and tested the results from the run off of the coco?
What brand of coco are you using?
thehappyguy
Member
oh i know what regular new growth looks like. i was talking about the tips of them. they look like they're showing some sort of deficiency as well as curling under. fresh new growth looks great though
Cannasmoke
Member
my pH pre-adjusted is a solid 7.3 usually, I use vinegar to bring the pH down, usually takes 2-3 droplets, I havent tested run off from un ph'ed water, I will definetly get those pictures for you sometime today, its an iPhone im using so hopefully they will be good enough.
I'm using Canna Coco, thanks for your time its much appreciated.
FinestKind
Member
Ya, when you let water sit out it will rise a little bit; with you having well water it goes through a filtration system.... kinda like RO water....
Those ranges are in the proper range, but you must keep them stable, the feed every other watering comment is correct
Your nutes could be bringing the pH down a bit and when you go and feed them they might not have used all the nutes up and when you feed more.... not to mention when you water as like you do you partialy flush the plants out so the plants don't sit in nutes as bad as it would have if the watering was not frequent.
I would keep the pH about 6.0 or slightly both ways......
I would most defiantly lay off the cal mag for now
Yes, leave it the way it is for now.
Depending on which nutrient you are using..... determines if or when you should pH adjust it; which nutrient are you speaking off that you use pH adjusters?
Thanks again for your time, Stitch- I surely appreciate it.
Actually, funny you should mention that filtration thing- the guy who built my house didn't put a filter on the well water coming in- so it's probably pretty mineral-rich water (I've never had it tested, actually- probably should do that) I know there's SUPPOSED to be a filter... it comes out of the tap very tasty and drinkable, though!
As far as the last question, I guess I'm not sure what you mean. I mix all of the nutes together in a big 18 gallon Tupperware container with water, and the pH generally comes out around 6.0, no matter where I am in the regimen (I guess Fox Farm has them pH balanced? I don't know.) I had been bringing it up to 6.5-ish with pH Up, but you asked at one point why I was doing this. I just thought that was common practice was my answer- am I wrong in thinking this? Should I just leave the pH at 6.0?
Thanks
FK
thehappyguy
Member
Ya, happy that is normal where a micronutrient like calcium and mag starts, nute burn can also cause it to look burnt at the tips; but you can also get nutrients locked out with there is too much of certain kinds available.
Damaged leaves will not recover.
Damaged leaves will not recover.
vinegar does not last long at all, it dissipates like chlorine would, but not poof like chlorine does lol.
Meaning it lasts as long as it would take chlorine to disapate.
You will need a different pH adjuster; you can get some from a hydro store or a pet store; but make sure it's safe for aquatic plants.
if not DO NOT use it.
You need to test your pH after you add the vinegar before and after..... high pH'd water will can cause problems in coco.
first get the pH tester and some pics and we can go from there.
You do NOT want to use pH up, since you got lime already in the mixture and you using up your causing your pH to raise too much and you don't want that with using pro mix
Stay away from using the pH up. THat is ONLY needed for people who are having problems controlling there pH with different kind of nutes.
Also if I remember properly fox farm products can be alkaline...... which you don't want.
Do you use your mixture of nutes right away or let them sit out 24 hours before using them?
First stop using the pH up and get your water pH and ppm tested!
Stop adding a lot of lime, just a little; this is for future reference about the lime, cause you added the lime and what is done is done, only a good long flush would work; but it would take a while....
So first stop using the pH up, let the nutes sit out 24 hours before using them and get the tap tested
By the time you add the pH up which lasts..... and the mix of lime you added and the stuff that was in there you are raising your pH value high! This is why I said your pH looks unstable; up and down.
With pro mix you want to keep it around 6.0 or give a take a few.
and if your water is hard you are throwing in more pH up since hard water is alkaline, then with the lime added you got more micro nutes so it's high pH and too plentiful of micros which cause lockout of other nutes and unstable pH.
FinestKind
Member
You do NOT want to use pH up, since you got lime already in the mixture and you using up your causing your pH to raise too much and you don't want that with using pro mix
Stay away from using the pH up. THat is ONLY needed for people who are having problems controlling there pH with different kind of nutes.
Also if I remember properly fox farm products can be alkaline...... which you don't want.
Do you use your mixture of nutes right away or let them sit out 24 hours before using them?
First stop using the pH up and get your water pH and ppm tested!
Stop adding a lot of lime, just a little; this is for future reference about the lime, cause you added the lime and what is done is done, only a good long flush would work; but it would take a while....
So first stop using the pH up, let the nutes sit out 24 hours before using them and get the tap tested
By the time you add the pH up which lasts..... and the mix of lime you added and the stuff that was in there you are raising your pH value high! This is why I said your pH looks unstable; up and down.
With pro mix you want to keep it around 6.0 or give a take a few.
and if your water is hard you are throwing in more pH up since hard water is alkaline, then with the lime added you got more micro nutes so it's high pH and too plentiful of micros which cause lockout of other nutes and unstable pH.
Thanks again, Stitch!
I hadn't been letting the nutes sit for 24 hours, the water had been, but not the nutes. That is good to know.
By the way, as far as my experiment is going, the flushed plants so far look better off than the ones I fed twice in a row, although the ones that just got a regular watering are holding their own, too. Not quite sure where to go from here.
My water is pretty soft (I actually just tested it again today, 30 ppm Ca, which doesn't say anything about the other metals and such), and my alkalinity is 20 ppm, but I do understand the idea that by adding lime I am basically making it "hard"... transmission received.
And no more pH up!
FK
You may have to end up flushing the rest of the plants......
Ya, that sounds about right; not as much hard water as I thought; but I still say what I said the previous posting.
Adding a lot of lime when lime already in it makes it a problem as if you were using hard water all the time.
Most definatly stop using the pH up..... keep me updated
Ya, that sounds about right; not as much hard water as I thought; but I still say what I said the previous posting.
Adding a lot of lime when lime already in it makes it a problem as if you were using hard water all the time.
Most definatly stop using the pH up..... keep me updated
