greensavage
New member
sometimes we love them to death! nute burn !
HELP!! Can't get any definitive answers!!
- Thread starter dakin3d
- Start date
E
EvilTwin
Hi Dak,
I'm really envious of your move to CO. I'm thinking Michigan maybe. It would be so nice to be able to grow legally.
The seed issue will become more clear after you get things rolling. Clone Mommas are very nice but keeping a plant alive can sometimes be a problem...especially with travel or vacation. So being able to make seeds for future generations is a very valuable thing.
Mr Nice has a good reputation...but like any breeder, some strains must be better then others. So I'd suggest researching individual strains and make your decision based on others experiences.
On the Bullrider strain you mentioned...one thing you should take into consideration. That is the THC amount as well as the ratio to the other cannanoids. Are you going to be growing for pain relief or sleep or some other medical use like that? The reason is that those strains are often less useful recreationally. Heavy heavy indicas are nice after the first hit...but two or three hits down the road, you start nodding off. I mean that shit puts you out. There are many "medicinal' strains like that. And some people have metabolisms for which that type of dope is best. Me...it just puts me to sleep. I prefer to enjoy my highs by being awake.
One other reason that top drip appeals to me is the aeration that it get. It's actually better then E&F and probably only slightly less then aeroponics. So it's a combination of all those things I mentioned. Ebb&Flow does seem to be popular. The Ebb&Gro system and the Greenleaf system...both 2 gallon multi-bucket E&F have gained in popularity. It's like an entry level commercial setup in a box. Plus it's relatively trouble free.
I bought Sun System initially because that's what the hydro store I go to carries. And then later a buddy gave me a deal on his lights when he shut down his operation. So I've been having good luck with them. The reflectors are well built and have a workable system to position the bulb properly.
I haven't tried any plant tissue cloning. I bought a book on the subject but that's as far as it's gone. I grow mushrooms so I'm comfortable with sterilizing, sterile transfers and appropriate lab procedure (from my micro class) so I figure that if I put my mind to it, I could probably get that going. Just wondering of you had any general observations or opinions as to the workability of tissue cloning.
Heading out for Christmas. Will be in touch after.
ET
I'm really envious of your move to CO. I'm thinking Michigan maybe. It would be so nice to be able to grow legally.
The seed issue will become more clear after you get things rolling. Clone Mommas are very nice but keeping a plant alive can sometimes be a problem...especially with travel or vacation. So being able to make seeds for future generations is a very valuable thing.
Mr Nice has a good reputation...but like any breeder, some strains must be better then others. So I'd suggest researching individual strains and make your decision based on others experiences.
On the Bullrider strain you mentioned...one thing you should take into consideration. That is the THC amount as well as the ratio to the other cannanoids. Are you going to be growing for pain relief or sleep or some other medical use like that? The reason is that those strains are often less useful recreationally. Heavy heavy indicas are nice after the first hit...but two or three hits down the road, you start nodding off. I mean that shit puts you out. There are many "medicinal' strains like that. And some people have metabolisms for which that type of dope is best. Me...it just puts me to sleep. I prefer to enjoy my highs by being awake.
One other reason that top drip appeals to me is the aeration that it get. It's actually better then E&F and probably only slightly less then aeroponics. So it's a combination of all those things I mentioned. Ebb&Flow does seem to be popular. The Ebb&Gro system and the Greenleaf system...both 2 gallon multi-bucket E&F have gained in popularity. It's like an entry level commercial setup in a box. Plus it's relatively trouble free.
I bought Sun System initially because that's what the hydro store I go to carries. And then later a buddy gave me a deal on his lights when he shut down his operation. So I've been having good luck with them. The reflectors are well built and have a workable system to position the bulb properly.
I haven't tried any plant tissue cloning. I bought a book on the subject but that's as far as it's gone. I grow mushrooms so I'm comfortable with sterilizing, sterile transfers and appropriate lab procedure (from my micro class) so I figure that if I put my mind to it, I could probably get that going. Just wondering of you had any general observations or opinions as to the workability of tissue cloning.
Heading out for Christmas. Will be in touch after.
ET
dakin3d
Member
Hey ET,
CO is an amazing place to be, and not only for the MM reason, although that is a more than just a 'bonus'
I assume it's not realistic for you to move that far west?
I have been debating if I should keep Momma's, but it seems like so much more work. I understand the importance of preserving good genetics when you don't have seeds, especially when growing in hydro and something bad could happen... like a power outtage:/ But I plan on just going w/ the progressive grow for the time being and taking clones from the veging plants before flipping them. I'm gonna get a 'nice' UPS unit for power fail, since my pumps will only be running 10 min/hr (ie, 1on/5off).
I hear you on the AF strain. I won't necessarily be using this as medicinal, but I do like a good 'sleeper' bud on hand. Indica's help me sleep very well, so they serve their purpose at the appropriate time. I'm like you though, during the day, I would pass out like a narcoleptic, which is why I tend to prefer Sativa's in general.
What brand of pumps do you have experience with? Anything you would recommend or not recommend?
I'll read up on some plant tissue cultures and cloning and let you know how easy it would be. It's hard to get a sterile environment unless you have all of the needed supplies, including an autoclave for sterilization, and incubator for cultures. Sterile plastics would be another way to go, but they are pricey as hell. Basically, I don't know if you could get away w/ using just simple sterile technique to do plant tissue cloning, or if you would need to go to the extent that we used to have to w/ animal and insect cells. Obviously this is my main concern regarding the 'workability' because the cultures would have to incubate at some point in the process and this, as you know, is where your contaminates will start to proliferate. As far as everything else, you just need some way of 'pipetting' using sterile tools under somewhat sterile conditions. You would also need to purchase some simple solutions at correct concentrations for processing the cells/cultures, as well as media for the cells to grow in. I anticipate these items could be easily obtained. Now that I think about it, you could use 'makeshift' replacements for almost all of the needed supplies. Incubators are pricey, too, but I'm sure we could think of something. We'll discuss further when you return.
Happy Holidays, dak
CO is an amazing place to be, and not only for the MM reason, although that is a more than just a 'bonus'
I assume it's not realistic for you to move that far west?I have been debating if I should keep Momma's, but it seems like so much more work. I understand the importance of preserving good genetics when you don't have seeds, especially when growing in hydro and something bad could happen... like a power outtage:/ But I plan on just going w/ the progressive grow for the time being and taking clones from the veging plants before flipping them. I'm gonna get a 'nice' UPS unit for power fail, since my pumps will only be running 10 min/hr (ie, 1on/5off).
I hear you on the AF strain. I won't necessarily be using this as medicinal, but I do like a good 'sleeper' bud on hand. Indica's help me sleep very well, so they serve their purpose at the appropriate time. I'm like you though, during the day, I would pass out like a narcoleptic, which is why I tend to prefer Sativa's in general.
What brand of pumps do you have experience with? Anything you would recommend or not recommend?
I'll read up on some plant tissue cultures and cloning and let you know how easy it would be. It's hard to get a sterile environment unless you have all of the needed supplies, including an autoclave for sterilization, and incubator for cultures. Sterile plastics would be another way to go, but they are pricey as hell. Basically, I don't know if you could get away w/ using just simple sterile technique to do plant tissue cloning, or if you would need to go to the extent that we used to have to w/ animal and insect cells. Obviously this is my main concern regarding the 'workability' because the cultures would have to incubate at some point in the process and this, as you know, is where your contaminates will start to proliferate. As far as everything else, you just need some way of 'pipetting' using sterile tools under somewhat sterile conditions. You would also need to purchase some simple solutions at correct concentrations for processing the cells/cultures, as well as media for the cells to grow in. I anticipate these items could be easily obtained. Now that I think about it, you could use 'makeshift' replacements for almost all of the needed supplies. Incubators are pricey, too, but I'm sure we could think of something. We'll discuss further when you return.
Happy Holidays, dak
MediScrogs
Member
Hi guys,
EvilTwin, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
Dakin3d, good luck in CO, it's a very beautiful state, nice climate and lots of stuff to do outdoors. It gets cold in the winter, but the sun is almost always out, and there's lots of variety; a January snowstorm is often followed by a week of melt and 50+ degree days. Summer is very nice if you like warm and dry.
Be sure to visit Rocky Mtn National Park in the spring when the road opens up again. It's just totally beautiful, the road goes up to something like 13,000 ft, I forget, but it gets you way up there. Don't get dizzy! lol. Enjoy, it's a great state to be living in.
EvilTwin, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.
Dakin3d, good luck in CO, it's a very beautiful state, nice climate and lots of stuff to do outdoors. It gets cold in the winter, but the sun is almost always out, and there's lots of variety; a January snowstorm is often followed by a week of melt and 50+ degree days. Summer is very nice if you like warm and dry.
Be sure to visit Rocky Mtn National Park in the spring when the road opens up again. It's just totally beautiful, the road goes up to something like 13,000 ft, I forget, but it gets you way up there. Don't get dizzy! lol. Enjoy, it's a great state to be living in.
E
EvilTwin
Hi Dak and Mediscrog too,
I knew other people could be be reading our conversation, but Mediscrog, you're the first to post. Back in the 50s when I was a tyke, I remember driving up that road in the Rocky Mountain park. Snowdrifts in the middle of the summer and our poor car was coughing and sputtering from the thin air. Mu Dad had to adjust the carb in order to make the climb. My sis lived in Boulder for years...that's a very cool town. And legaL MM too! I'm not that far away...but I like to be a days drive from Minneapolis. That's one of my geographic limitations due to family.
Dak,
There are various approaches to take regarding clones. Seriel cloning is certainly one option. People say that there's no genetic decline from taking clones-of-clones perpetually. Not interested in debating that subject...but keeping clone Mommas removes that possibility. What if you happen across a particular pheno that happens to be a real stand-out. What everyone hopes for...their own clone-only elite. You want to have some way of safely preserving that genetics. I personally prefer clone Mommas though in my learly career...everything was done with seeds.
When doing a cross, there's a phenomena called hybrid vigor. You get optimal hybrid vigor when crossing plants that are very un-alike. Pure sat with a pure indica. So find a good indica that will work both as sleep med but also is worthy of using as an Indica breeding base. I've been using an Afghan for that though also have NL and a Cherry Bomb Indica and I'm going to be testing them out.
Dak, I just use ECO pumps but for aeroponics...you'll want something better and designed to handle the pressures of aero. ECOs are fine for E&F and general fluid movement. Amazing how often I use a pump to tranport liquid...emptying and filling a res, flushing etc.
On the tissue cloning issue. I'm very conversant at improvising incubation chambers and sterilization hoods and such. Avoiding contam during ahroom work must be every bit as critical as plant tissue cloning. This isn't something for right now though. Maybe in a year or so. The chemical trigger that you need to cause tissue differentiation is what puzzles me. I suspect ganja would be easy to tissue clone. Then you could keep your clone Momma in a test tube.
I drove through that massive midwest storm system yesterday to get to Minneapolis for Christmas. Snow last night and more today. White Christmas for sure.
Happy Holidays to everyone,
ET
I knew other people could be be reading our conversation, but Mediscrog, you're the first to post. Back in the 50s when I was a tyke, I remember driving up that road in the Rocky Mountain park. Snowdrifts in the middle of the summer and our poor car was coughing and sputtering from the thin air. Mu Dad had to adjust the carb in order to make the climb. My sis lived in Boulder for years...that's a very cool town. And legaL MM too! I'm not that far away...but I like to be a days drive from Minneapolis. That's one of my geographic limitations due to family.
Dak,
There are various approaches to take regarding clones. Seriel cloning is certainly one option. People say that there's no genetic decline from taking clones-of-clones perpetually. Not interested in debating that subject...but keeping clone Mommas removes that possibility. What if you happen across a particular pheno that happens to be a real stand-out. What everyone hopes for...their own clone-only elite. You want to have some way of safely preserving that genetics. I personally prefer clone Mommas though in my learly career...everything was done with seeds.
When doing a cross, there's a phenomena called hybrid vigor. You get optimal hybrid vigor when crossing plants that are very un-alike. Pure sat with a pure indica. So find a good indica that will work both as sleep med but also is worthy of using as an Indica breeding base. I've been using an Afghan for that though also have NL and a Cherry Bomb Indica and I'm going to be testing them out.
Dak, I just use ECO pumps but for aeroponics...you'll want something better and designed to handle the pressures of aero. ECOs are fine for E&F and general fluid movement. Amazing how often I use a pump to tranport liquid...emptying and filling a res, flushing etc.
On the tissue cloning issue. I'm very conversant at improvising incubation chambers and sterilization hoods and such. Avoiding contam during ahroom work must be every bit as critical as plant tissue cloning. This isn't something for right now though. Maybe in a year or so. The chemical trigger that you need to cause tissue differentiation is what puzzles me. I suspect ganja would be easy to tissue clone. Then you could keep your clone Momma in a test tube.
I drove through that massive midwest storm system yesterday to get to Minneapolis for Christmas. Snow last night and more today. White Christmas for sure.
Happy Holidays to everyone,
ET
dakin3d
Member
Whats up ET (and Medi if your there),
Hope you had a great break over the Holidays, and Happy New Year. I understand the geographic limitations, but maybe you'll have to make another trip down to the Northern CO area sometime this year when I have things up and running.
If I decided to keep some Momma's for the obvious, would you recommend soil, DWC, or some other method?
Regarding the aero pumps, do you have something in mind (ie particular brand, place to buy at reasonable prices, etc)? I know the ECO pumps are kind of 'weak', but what if I were to go like 600gph? Currently, the individuals using that specific system seem to be having success w/ the 396gph ECO, is the reason I ask. My main consideration is cost, however I'm not typically the type of person that goes 'cheap'. At this point, I don't really know any better due to my lack of avail product knowledge.
I'm extremely interested in doing some additional digging and research on our cloning topic. This could set a new standard for 'the community' if we were to figure out a relatively easy procedure for maintenance, although it would be quite the feat. Typically, tissue differentiation is initiated by chemicals or hormones in more complex biological organism tissue cloning, but I believe in the case of plants, they will simply start to replicate themselves usually based on the type of tissue that was initially isolated for replication. I read that sometimes the cultures will start out producing a 'shoot', other times it will produce a 'callus', which is a blob of various plant cell types until they start to produce an actual plant structure (im not sure if differentiation is occurring here or not). I will try to find the actual biochemical process for plant tissue differentiation in cloning, as you have peaked my interest as well. I am anticipating that there is a hormone supplement in the medium that aids the process. I am also interested in the preservation of the genome, and if down the line any significant point mutations could occur from exposure to hormones and chemicals. It is my presumptive opinion that it would almost be better to isolate the plant cells from the tissue sample taken for cloning using a chemical process for isolation, as opposed to using the actual sample. I think it would be easier to work w/ isolated cells, but also easy to store isolated cells in liq nitrogen or a -85 freeze for future use if your plant was a 'super fem'. I also believe that isolated cells may speed up the process of replication and proliferation, although I have no idea if I'm actually correct in thinking this. I've wondered how easy it would be to create recombinant hybrids from isolated genomic DNA of two plants? And compare that lab created F1 to a F1 from a natural cross. And obviously F2, as well. Hmm, thats a lot to think about right now. Anyway, I think I'll get back to the much simpler subject of designing my new room
On that note, I would like to get your opinion. The more that I've read on light movers vs. additional lighting, the more Ive been convinced that buying another light, as opposed to buying two light movers, makes much more sense for my particular situation. What do you think? I guess we can have that conversation on light movers if your willing... I'm not really concerned about energy usage, but I am concerned w/ getting a properly setup sub or additional breaker box altogether. I'm going to be drawing some major amps in this new room, and I need options for future expansion, as well.
Hope you had a safe drive home w/ all that snow you ran into. Haven't seen snow in over a year, which isn't typical for me.
dak
Hope you had a great break over the Holidays, and Happy New Year. I understand the geographic limitations, but maybe you'll have to make another trip down to the Northern CO area sometime this year when I have things up and running.
If I decided to keep some Momma's for the obvious, would you recommend soil, DWC, or some other method?
Regarding the aero pumps, do you have something in mind (ie particular brand, place to buy at reasonable prices, etc)? I know the ECO pumps are kind of 'weak', but what if I were to go like 600gph? Currently, the individuals using that specific system seem to be having success w/ the 396gph ECO, is the reason I ask. My main consideration is cost, however I'm not typically the type of person that goes 'cheap'. At this point, I don't really know any better due to my lack of avail product knowledge.
I'm extremely interested in doing some additional digging and research on our cloning topic. This could set a new standard for 'the community' if we were to figure out a relatively easy procedure for maintenance, although it would be quite the feat. Typically, tissue differentiation is initiated by chemicals or hormones in more complex biological organism tissue cloning, but I believe in the case of plants, they will simply start to replicate themselves usually based on the type of tissue that was initially isolated for replication. I read that sometimes the cultures will start out producing a 'shoot', other times it will produce a 'callus', which is a blob of various plant cell types until they start to produce an actual plant structure (im not sure if differentiation is occurring here or not). I will try to find the actual biochemical process for plant tissue differentiation in cloning, as you have peaked my interest as well. I am anticipating that there is a hormone supplement in the medium that aids the process. I am also interested in the preservation of the genome, and if down the line any significant point mutations could occur from exposure to hormones and chemicals. It is my presumptive opinion that it would almost be better to isolate the plant cells from the tissue sample taken for cloning using a chemical process for isolation, as opposed to using the actual sample. I think it would be easier to work w/ isolated cells, but also easy to store isolated cells in liq nitrogen or a -85 freeze for future use if your plant was a 'super fem'. I also believe that isolated cells may speed up the process of replication and proliferation, although I have no idea if I'm actually correct in thinking this. I've wondered how easy it would be to create recombinant hybrids from isolated genomic DNA of two plants? And compare that lab created F1 to a F1 from a natural cross. And obviously F2, as well. Hmm, thats a lot to think about right now. Anyway, I think I'll get back to the much simpler subject of designing my new room
On that note, I would like to get your opinion. The more that I've read on light movers vs. additional lighting, the more Ive been convinced that buying another light, as opposed to buying two light movers, makes much more sense for my particular situation. What do you think? I guess we can have that conversation on light movers if your willing... I'm not really concerned about energy usage, but I am concerned w/ getting a properly setup sub or additional breaker box altogether. I'm going to be drawing some major amps in this new room, and I need options for future expansion, as well.
Hope you had a safe drive home w/ all that snow you ran into. Haven't seen snow in over a year, which isn't typical for me.
dak
E
EvilTwin
Guys,
Apparently a fairly lengthy post I thought I made...never made it here. So I'll try and recall what all was included.
OK, Momma plants. Personally I feel it's best to keep them in soil though many are using hydro. Hempy buckets seem to be popular because they're free-standing. Hans from High Times uses soil-lessa with a wick. That allows him to vary nutrients. Cutting back on N for awhile before cutting clones helps the cuttings to root and survive better.
Hey Dak, on the micro-propogation technique (plant tissue cloning) when I started reading my book on the subject, almost the fist bit of info I ran into related to the clones having to revert back to the juvenile level of maturity. Even if the donor plant was an adult, the tissue cloning process reverts them. That removes one of the big advantages of cloning. Having to run them through the full vegging schedule means they would be useless for sog or other small plant grow methods. So looks like regular cloning for me!
Light movers aren't for everyone. Plants have the capability to balance out daily light exposure. Many peole say they worry about the dark end while the light is at it's extreme of movement. But that's not so much an issue.
Movers are for making existing lights more efficiennt rather then for actually replacing a light. You get better penetration due to the varying angles. More intensity due to lower placement (though less of an argument comparing to shielded vented lights).
A little aside: I've been toying with the idea of using my mover to do two vertical grows. I'd use a pulley mounted above the grows and then the mover would bob two 500watt hps up and down in the middle of a small circle of plants. I think it would work good.
Winter just keeps rolling along...
ET
Apparently a fairly lengthy post I thought I made...never made it here. So I'll try and recall what all was included.
OK, Momma plants. Personally I feel it's best to keep them in soil though many are using hydro. Hempy buckets seem to be popular because they're free-standing. Hans from High Times uses soil-lessa with a wick. That allows him to vary nutrients. Cutting back on N for awhile before cutting clones helps the cuttings to root and survive better.
Hey Dak, on the micro-propogation technique (plant tissue cloning) when I started reading my book on the subject, almost the fist bit of info I ran into related to the clones having to revert back to the juvenile level of maturity. Even if the donor plant was an adult, the tissue cloning process reverts them. That removes one of the big advantages of cloning. Having to run them through the full vegging schedule means they would be useless for sog or other small plant grow methods. So looks like regular cloning for me!
Light movers aren't for everyone. Plants have the capability to balance out daily light exposure. Many peole say they worry about the dark end while the light is at it's extreme of movement. But that's not so much an issue.
Movers are for making existing lights more efficiennt rather then for actually replacing a light. You get better penetration due to the varying angles. More intensity due to lower placement (though less of an argument comparing to shielded vented lights).
A little aside: I've been toying with the idea of using my mover to do two vertical grows. I'd use a pulley mounted above the grows and then the mover would bob two 500watt hps up and down in the middle of a small circle of plants. I think it would work good.
Winter just keeps rolling along...
ET
dakin3d
Member
Whats up, ET? I figured that something had happened, but it happens to me regularly!
That is a bummer regarding the micro-prop technique, but it makes sense. Just out of curiosity, what book were you reading? That wouldn't work for me either, as I plan on executing a progressive grow and don't really have time.
The vertical light mover is an interesting idea. How much wattage are you working w/, ET? Based on your knowledge and experience, how tall are you comfortable w/ your plants getting to obtain reasonable penetration?
So, I am finally harvesting about half of my plants. It looks as if I have 3 strains, I will know for sure by the end of the week. I'll post some pics eventually. I was surprised that the 430W was sufficient enough to perform in the way that it did.
It'll be Spring before you know it... dak
That is a bummer regarding the micro-prop technique, but it makes sense. Just out of curiosity, what book were you reading? That wouldn't work for me either, as I plan on executing a progressive grow and don't really have time.
The vertical light mover is an interesting idea. How much wattage are you working w/, ET? Based on your knowledge and experience, how tall are you comfortable w/ your plants getting to obtain reasonable penetration?
So, I am finally harvesting about half of my plants. It looks as if I have 3 strains, I will know for sure by the end of the week. I'll post some pics eventually. I was surprised that the 430W was sufficient enough to perform in the way that it did.
It'll be Spring before you know it... dak
P
PastorJ
I have had a similar looking problem. I found out that I did infact over nute them ta death lol. I have uploaded some helpfull chartz like this one in my albums section. Hope they help & good luck.
E
EvilTwin
Hi Dak,
The book I have is called "Plants From Test Tubes" third edition by Lydiane and John Kleyn. It's a good book, not enough details, I don't believe, to actually perform tissue cloning but enough to famiarize ones self with the ideas and theories. I was disappointed because filling a couple large sig tables seems like the perfect use...but not if they need full vegging. Damn.
Pot size determines plant size...more or less, and hydro in 2 gallon pots can grow 3' plants. That's where I'm comfortable getting good penetration with 600 watt bulbs. I don't have any 1000s...just 500s and a couple 400s as well as mercury vapor reptile lights for UV.
But with my 600s bobbing up and down a couple feet inside a circle of 3' plants...I should get good buddage all the way down. That assumes a weekly rotation of the plants. That's where the efficiency factor comes in with certicals. No popcprn buds.
I've done many grows with just a single 400 and actually, ,ost of pry grows from way back were done with one of each: 400mh and 400hps.
Enjoy your harvest and when you headin' to CO?
ET
The book I have is called "Plants From Test Tubes" third edition by Lydiane and John Kleyn. It's a good book, not enough details, I don't believe, to actually perform tissue cloning but enough to famiarize ones self with the ideas and theories. I was disappointed because filling a couple large sig tables seems like the perfect use...but not if they need full vegging. Damn.
Pot size determines plant size...more or less, and hydro in 2 gallon pots can grow 3' plants. That's where I'm comfortable getting good penetration with 600 watt bulbs. I don't have any 1000s...just 500s and a couple 400s as well as mercury vapor reptile lights for UV.
But with my 600s bobbing up and down a couple feet inside a circle of 3' plants...I should get good buddage all the way down. That assumes a weekly rotation of the plants. That's where the efficiency factor comes in with certicals. No popcprn buds.
I've done many grows with just a single 400 and actually, ,ost of pry grows from way back were done with one of each: 400mh and 400hps.
Enjoy your harvest and when you headin' to CO?
ET
dakin3d
Member
Thanks PastorJ, I appreciate you passing the info. I like your collection of charts, too, very nice. I was curious, are these pages like the one you posted out of a book? If so, which one?
Hey ET, Thanks, I'll check out the book. I'm interested in the basics, so it should be perfect. It be interesting to do some research on engineering the cell pathway so that they didn't need full veg time...
I've been thinking about my pot size, and I've theorized that a good portion of my problems originated due to small pots, at least for these specific strains (all sativa dom). All over 5' tall, all stretched to the light to the last day. Topped, super-cropped, and some LST were all utilized. Had a hermie, but didn't show until late (and very few 'nanners'), so it didn't affect the quality. Had bad spinout, but the root balls are literally the entire space of the pot up to the top 1/2"-1" of soil. I think that whatever I have would grow some large colas under better general conditions.
I'm interested in seeing how your vertical setup will do? I think it would be perfect for a modified DWC setup similar to this: http://www.*********.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/. He had some pics of some TREES using this setup, but I couldn't find them. We're talking like 5-6 lbs/plant w/ like 9-10 plants. It was pretty nice. Would work well if your operating under plant number constraints to stay w/in limits.
What kind of yield (roughly) have you gotten from a single 400W?
What is your opinion on daily 'turning' of the plants, vs weekly, as you've stated. Is daily turning too often?
Thanks! I will enjoy. I was pleasantly surprised that I have some decent genetics considering the quality that they produced under my care! They could do much better! I'm moving as soon as I land a job there. Basically, the brewery where I applied for multiple positions, delayed hiring until after next week, so I'm playing the 'waiting' game. It has worked out so far being that flowering took so long, but now I'm ready to go. Taking down the rest soon and I'll have one under my belt. It amazes me of what you can produce when you look at the final product.
Soon I'll be, 'on the road again'... dak
Hey ET, Thanks, I'll check out the book. I'm interested in the basics, so it should be perfect. It be interesting to do some research on engineering the cell pathway so that they didn't need full veg time...
I've been thinking about my pot size, and I've theorized that a good portion of my problems originated due to small pots, at least for these specific strains (all sativa dom). All over 5' tall, all stretched to the light to the last day. Topped, super-cropped, and some LST were all utilized. Had a hermie, but didn't show until late (and very few 'nanners'), so it didn't affect the quality. Had bad spinout, but the root balls are literally the entire space of the pot up to the top 1/2"-1" of soil. I think that whatever I have would grow some large colas under better general conditions.
I'm interested in seeing how your vertical setup will do? I think it would be perfect for a modified DWC setup similar to this: http://www.*********.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/. He had some pics of some TREES using this setup, but I couldn't find them. We're talking like 5-6 lbs/plant w/ like 9-10 plants. It was pretty nice. Would work well if your operating under plant number constraints to stay w/in limits.
What kind of yield (roughly) have you gotten from a single 400W?
What is your opinion on daily 'turning' of the plants, vs weekly, as you've stated. Is daily turning too often?
Thanks! I will enjoy. I was pleasantly surprised that I have some decent genetics considering the quality that they produced under my care! They could do much better! I'm moving as soon as I land a job there. Basically, the brewery where I applied for multiple positions, delayed hiring until after next week, so I'm playing the 'waiting' game. It has worked out so far being that flowering took so long, but now I'm ready to go. Taking down the rest soon and I'll have one under my belt. It amazes me of what you can produce when you look at the final product.
Soon I'll be, 'on the road again'... dak
MediScrogs
Member
Hey guys, I forgot to bookmark this, I knew I posted about Rocky Mtn National Park somewhere.
hey dakin3d, don't be stingy with the harvest photos, bro! Sounds like you're happy with the qualitay.
EvilTwin, cool story about the car gasping for air on that road. Makin me nostalgic a little about the times i went there hikin'. Lot's of cool trails, multicolored wildflowers plus all the elk and marmot, saw a moose once. Played frisbee golf at the course in Estes Park, couple of holes with big downhill/cross canyon shots. Boulder's a nice area too for mountains. Truly a fine state to enjoy the outdoors.
hey dakin3d, good luck on your road, bud.
hey dakin3d, don't be stingy with the harvest photos, bro! Sounds like you're happy with the qualitay.
EvilTwin, cool story about the car gasping for air on that road. Makin me nostalgic a little about the times i went there hikin'. Lot's of cool trails, multicolored wildflowers plus all the elk and marmot, saw a moose once. Played frisbee golf at the course in Estes Park, couple of holes with big downhill/cross canyon shots. Boulder's a nice area too for mountains. Truly a fine state to enjoy the outdoors.
hey dakin3d, good luck on your road, bud.
P
PastorJ
Late Reply
Late Reply
Late Reply
No, Sorry friend. I found all the pages online & collected them from many different sites. Glad you dug them though.
E
EvilTwin
Medi,
When my family drove up the Rocky Mountain park road, we were driving a 1957 Nash Ambassador tourquoice and white. Gas was probably no more then 29 cents a gallon. My sister wore her hair in a beehive hairdue & I wore tapered pants and Beatle boots. A different era.
Dak, if you want to grow trees, you need fairly decent size pots. This is one of those points that gets debated though. DWC tends to grow fat water roots and they fill up the whole bucket. I grow 3 1/2' plants in two gallon top drip (Hydroform) Problem is that the roots can actually displace all the pot volume. Accasionally DWC guys have to trim back roots. I haven't run into any problems with my 2 gal pots.
If you're going to grow sativas, you'll need to do some serious training and Bushmaster to minimize stretch.
I'm not interested in doing DWC Dak. I have some of the same complaints with DWC as I do with E&F. When comparing to top drip that is. Much greater risk of flooding or leaks. Vulnerablitiy of the roots if aeration were interupted, and risk of root rot if res is too warm. Need for huge res if doing recirculating. I'm in keep it simple mode.
The vertical grows should be efficient and optimize lighting...the deal is with a vertical grow, the branches will have time to phototrope and you don't want that to happen. Weekly turning is enough to keeo both sides of the plant budding nicely. Daily turning isn't necessary but would work nicely. Much more work that isn't necessary far as I'm concerned.
When I first started doing E&F, I ran 400watt lights on a 3x3 tray. I'd get an ounce per square foot whatever that works out to in grams/watt.
Glad you were happy with your genetics. You can find keepers in surprising places. Keep close track. Early on when I ordered some seeds, I grew some mixes out. I had a couple that were very nice...long lasting highs, but I didn't keep the parent plant so essentially I lost the genetics.
Anyway, have fun, that's what it's all about.
ET
When my family drove up the Rocky Mountain park road, we were driving a 1957 Nash Ambassador tourquoice and white. Gas was probably no more then 29 cents a gallon. My sister wore her hair in a beehive hairdue & I wore tapered pants and Beatle boots. A different era.
Dak, if you want to grow trees, you need fairly decent size pots. This is one of those points that gets debated though. DWC tends to grow fat water roots and they fill up the whole bucket. I grow 3 1/2' plants in two gallon top drip (Hydroform) Problem is that the roots can actually displace all the pot volume. Accasionally DWC guys have to trim back roots. I haven't run into any problems with my 2 gal pots.
If you're going to grow sativas, you'll need to do some serious training and Bushmaster to minimize stretch.
I'm not interested in doing DWC Dak. I have some of the same complaints with DWC as I do with E&F. When comparing to top drip that is. Much greater risk of flooding or leaks. Vulnerablitiy of the roots if aeration were interupted, and risk of root rot if res is too warm. Need for huge res if doing recirculating. I'm in keep it simple mode.
The vertical grows should be efficient and optimize lighting...the deal is with a vertical grow, the branches will have time to phototrope and you don't want that to happen. Weekly turning is enough to keeo both sides of the plant budding nicely. Daily turning isn't necessary but would work nicely. Much more work that isn't necessary far as I'm concerned.
When I first started doing E&F, I ran 400watt lights on a 3x3 tray. I'd get an ounce per square foot whatever that works out to in grams/watt.
Glad you were happy with your genetics. You can find keepers in surprising places. Keep close track. Early on when I ordered some seeds, I grew some mixes out. I had a couple that were very nice...long lasting highs, but I didn't keep the parent plant so essentially I lost the genetics.
Anyway, have fun, that's what it's all about.
ET
MediScrogs
Member
dakin3d
Member
Medi, yeah I'll get lots of pics posted ASAP. I still have to harvest about 1/2 of the total crop. Some of the plants weren't done, and I wanted the bottom halves of all the plants to have some xtra time under the light. I made the mistake of NOT trimming the under 20% of the plant (ie, lollipopping....or to some extent). So, I have a lot of lower branches that are underdeveloped and pale. The ones that have been under light the past week have perked up and regained their deep green. So, here's hoping for xtra weight.
I hear ya on the DWC, ET. I just thought that if someone were under limitations of being legal, but still wanted decent weight, they could go w/ these DWC buckets. I don't like the idea of DWC since I'm not familiar w/ hydro to begin with, a lot of equip/plumbing, and I have read a lot of horror stories w/ individuals' DWC systems. Maybe in the future.
Damn that is a pretty good yield w/ a 400W light. When I think about it, I should be close to that as well, but my plants are 5.5' tall! So, cubic feet and square feet are a significant difference in this situation.
I got lucky w/ the genetics. I'm surprised that the beans I had even germinated, much less produce what they did. I've kept cuttings (2x ea. plant) going in some 1.5" rockwool cubes. They all rooted w/in a week! Now I have 14 cuttings that are ready to go and I'm not! Ill just try to keep them alive until I can get moved.
Thanks for your input red, you make some very valid points.
Cheers, dak
I hear ya on the DWC, ET. I just thought that if someone were under limitations of being legal, but still wanted decent weight, they could go w/ these DWC buckets. I don't like the idea of DWC since I'm not familiar w/ hydro to begin with, a lot of equip/plumbing, and I have read a lot of horror stories w/ individuals' DWC systems. Maybe in the future.
Damn that is a pretty good yield w/ a 400W light. When I think about it, I should be close to that as well, but my plants are 5.5' tall! So, cubic feet and square feet are a significant difference in this situation.
I got lucky w/ the genetics. I'm surprised that the beans I had even germinated, much less produce what they did. I've kept cuttings (2x ea. plant) going in some 1.5" rockwool cubes. They all rooted w/in a week! Now I have 14 cuttings that are ready to go and I'm not! Ill just try to keep them alive until I can get moved.
Thanks for your input red, you make some very valid points.
Cheers, dak
dakin3d
Member
Hey ET (and anyone else, of course),
I just thought I would let you know I started a thread of my recent grow w/ some pics. You can check it out here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3268350#post3268350
I hope all is well on your end, man. Cheers, dak
I just thought I would let you know I started a thread of my recent grow w/ some pics. You can check it out here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3268350#post3268350
I hope all is well on your end, man. Cheers, dak
