sea energy agriculture

[elmanito]

Any one experience with sea energy agriculture, the use of sea minerals as nutrition for plants.

http://www.acresusa.com/books/closeup.asp?prodid=768&catid=4&pcid=2

http://www.sea-crop.com/index.html

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

Sea-Crop is without a doubt the most under the radar product I've ever seen. IMO the only sea product worth it's salt..LOL. It's truly amazing stuff. I've talked to people who use it in large scale agriculture, food production, and never heard a bad thing about it and only benefits. It works well in organics and salt enviros.

A bit surprised canna growers have not worked with this one more. Forget about all other sea products...this is the one you want. Works great as a foliar also.

Dr. Murray's book is OK.

 

[elmanito]

Thanks for the info.Sea-Crop was just an example.I ordered a product which is produced by this company.

Problem is that a lot of growers are sceptical about the use of unrefined sea salt as nutes.

http://www.mineralresourcesint.com/index.htm

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

I used to work with, not for, that company some years back. I after you play with it for awhile try Sea-Crop and think you will notice an improvement. I really don't like any that comes out of the Great Salt Lake and if someone was going to use something I'd recommend an ocean derived product instead. Their products are high in potassium and not sodium if I'm remembering correctly which is good though but still a chloride compound which is bad for microlife. They hate chlorides.

I understand the skepticism about using unrefined sea salt as nutes. It kind of works though. I look at it this way...if sea salt was so good it would be in much wider use in agriculture for starters especially considering how inexpensive it is.

The Romans destroyed the fields of Carthage by salting them

This area is something I have spent a LOT of time on recently researching and a missing component in nute programs from what I can tell.

 

[elmanito]

Label of this product says nothing about potassium content.Appr.98% of unrefined sea salt is NaCl, so you have to deal with Chloride.99% of Sodium is removed and it is 50 times more concentrated than normal sea water.

I read somewhere on the web that you can use a conc of max 2000 ppm to give it to the plants.This person did a experiment with cabbage and lettuce.

0.35-0.42 oz sea salt / 2.6 gallons (10-15 g/ 10 l) water he used.

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

Here's a link to a study I think should help out a bit. I could not find the study...only the abstract. While nutritonal value went up yield decreased. The researchers attributed the increase in nutritional content as the plants attempt to 'counteract damaging effects of salinity-induced oxidative stress'.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18393430

That whole 50x more concentrated than seawater they claim and the 100x concentrated that GroPal claims is a bit deceiving IMO.

Then there's what happened after the tsunami in Indonesia. The 'tsunami benefit' thing where farmers attributed the increase in yeilds to just the seawater soaking the land. What happened there is so much more complicated than simply that

 

[MrFista]

Used some on marginal soil with corn. Great results.

Used some on great soil with weed - no noticeable difference.

Very interested in more information and more than that one study mentioned I've already found.

Anyone tested the soil food web yet with this product in the soil.

 

[*Journeyman*]

Used some on marginal soil with corn. Great results.

Used some on great soil with weed - no noticeable difference

Just to be clear exactly what did you use?

For sure that's one thing I look at when researching a product's effectiveness is the baseline soil they use. Is it crap soil? and in that case probably adding most anything will provide a good response. What I really look for are products that add something in well dialed in soils.

My research indicates that the better the soil management has been the better Sea-Crop works, at least outdoors, and may have something to do with the amount of available carbon in the soil. It's affect also seems to be cumulative. When used on soil which has been abused by salts and pesticides it's affect is definitely muted.

One thing I want to add is if people are dealing with soil high in NaCl they can use a product from www.tainio.com as they have a formula with a certain bacteria strain that biologically transmutes sodium into potassium.

I personally would not recommend applying any salt products including those from the Great Salt Lake, even if processed, and anything from Australia except maybe GroPal from www.gropal.com as that seems OK but still will not provide the results you get from Sea-Crop.

 

[MrFista]

"My research indicates that the better the soil management has been the better Sea-Crop works, at least outdoors, and may have something to do with the amount of available carbon in the soil. It's affect also seems to be cumulative. When used on soil which has been abused by salts and pesticides it's affect is definitely muted"

I'm sorry but I see the exact opposite. Sea solids are meaningless in my terra preta soil - waste of time. Abused soil won't cope with sea solids no, but add some compost and not a lot happens, add compost and microbes - same - add compost microbes blood and bone and lime - marginal growth - add sea solids with the previous list - some plants love it others don't care less. Add biochar - now we're talking. BOOM!

No, I'm not naming the product, it's from NZ and it's a good one, phuk the corporate world, all of them.

"My research" - bring it, I'm all ears...

"I personally would not recommend... anything from Australia..."

WTF? You work testing products? Or you just "know".

 

[elmanito]

Sea-Crop is not available in Europe, not even in the UK.Its bit expensive to order it direct from the US (shipping costs).
I have a lot of experience with seaweed extracts and these kind of extracts contain of course also several minerals which will benefit the plant physiology.I see always great results with root growth when i'm using it.

The cherry tomatoes research is interesting, when you see that the addition of sea minerals increased important constituents like ascorbic acid, lipoic acid etc.I think you have to find a balance to minimize salt damage, but that counts for every plant species like for instance cannabis.

I don't think that the high amount of chloride in sea salt will do more damage to the micro environment than for instance chemical fertilizer.Some fungi can deal with a high conc. of chloride in the soil and transmutes it in other compounds.

Biochar is nice but not so easy to make.

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

Mr. Fista - When most people refer to sea solids they are talking about dehydrated seawater AKA sea salt. There are some surface deposits like around the Salton Sea, salt from drying ponds like Celtic Sea Salt, underground deposits like Real Salt and Himalayan salt, Great Salt Lake materials (some of which are claimed to be processed) and processed sea water products from Australia.

Sea-Crop is a true seawater concentrate IMO. I'll send you a PM to cover some of your other questions

 

[RNDZL]

there is a thread make your plants explode sea salts from user osirica420, check it out it out its great stuff


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=81260&highlight=make+plants+explode

 

[*Journeyman*]

I checked his thread out and cool to see him growing plants like that but not the approach I'd recommend. I read through Dr. Murray's book and he was basically growing just with sea solids. Dr. Murray missed something though as he was focusing on the minerals when the biological components of seawater are very important and virtually all companies focus on the minerals but there's much more to sea products than just that

 

[RNDZL]

I checked his thread out and cool to see him growing plants like that but not the approach I'd recommend. I read through Dr. Murray's book and he was basically growing just with sea solids. Dr. Murray missed something though as he was focusing on the minerals when the biological components of seawater are very important and virtually all companies focus on the minerals but there's much more to sea products than just that

thanks for the info

i havent done enough research on the subject to offer more than the information ive discovered

its great to see people try and document new things

 

[elmanito]

Dr. Murray missed something though as he was focusing on the minerals when the biological components of seawater are very important and virtually all companies focus on the minerals but there's much more to sea products than just that

I agree that the sum of the total is greater than some constituents alone.The main reason he used sea solids was that the use of sea water was to expensive.If you use Sea-Crop alone, the use of NPK fertilizers is not necessary when i understand it right.With the sun drying of sea salt nitrogen is lost to the air and some other stuff.

In the US is the practical use of sea products in organic agriculture far more common than in Europe and that counts also with knowledge about the use.

Its funny & interesting to see the thread of osirica420 and the use a pretty high concentration of sea solids & Sea-Crop.Its really amazing.

Sam the Skunkman said always that the use of minerals has no effect on the cannabinoid synthesis, but the thread of osirica420 shows the opposite.Nice discovery

Namaste

 

[elmanito]

This is interesting what Arthur Zeigler (owner Sea-Crop) says about Sea-Crop

“Sea-Crop acts as a catalytic trigger,” he continued. “We’re allowing enzyme formation to take place in its most efficient manor so plants can more nearly express their full genetic potential.”

http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2010/01/31/local_news/doc4b653144ee65f794115678.txt

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

If you use Sea-Crop alone, the use of NPK fertilizers is not necessary when i understand it right. With the sun drying of sea salt nitrogen is lost to the air and some other stuff.

Sam the Skunkman said always that the use of minerals has no effect on the cannabinoid synthesis, but the thread of osirica420 shows the opposite.

Sea Crop is not a stand alone product and you do need N-P-K either added to a medium. If growing in something like well managed organic soil where you're building humus you're good to go.

As for Sam...something like a seawater product provides minerals that are difficult to get from other sources. The major improvements you see from using Sea-Crop are fragrance and flavor. It is very rare there is not a yield improvement. Plants are healthier, resist diseases and pests better, have larger root structures, etc. One of the big things is the increase in enzyme activity ad higher brix levels. Considering cellular enzymes are a key to proper plant function it's hard to believe that using Sea-Crop will not enhance production of the more desirable compounds in cannabis.

One thing I remember is someone telling me that dairy cows that graze near the ocean produce higher quality milk products. This seems to have been confirmed recently when I read some things about animals that are fed forage grasses/grains grown with sea products and the resultant improvement in things like butterfat content. Animals are also healthier in general.

 

[*Journeyman*]

As for that article John Kempf is a pretty interesting man. He basically follows a philosophy called biological farming. There's a great book by Gary Zimmer called The Biological Farmer and a middle road approach to agriculture. Some would not consider a few of the materials used as organic or agree with the practices but the mantra of biological farming is honor the soil microlife and worm population.

They'll use something like MAP (monoammonium phosphate) but not DAP (diammonium phosphate).

That book is chocked full of great practical information and even for the strict organic grower they'll come across lots of useful stuff.

 

[elmanito]

I agree that Sea-Crop is not entirely a fertilizer with NPK, but the use of NPK fertilizer is less than without Sea-Crop.
Another method to increase the microlife is the use of flaxstraw.You will get a large population of worms in the soil which stimulates again bacteria, fungi etc.

One of the big things is the increase in enzyme activity ad higher brix levels.

There are certain enzymes concerned with the biosynthesis of cannabinoids.

I will see if i can get the book The Biological Farmer.This would be interesting.
Do you know the book Gardening, plowing without poison by Alwin Seifert??

Namaste

 

[*Journeyman*]

but the use of NPK fertilizer is less than without Sea-Crop.

Do you know the book Gardening, plowing without poison by Alwin Seifert??

Absolutely and good point. It has been shown that you can cut your nutrient use fairly dramatically when using Sea-Crop. N can be cut at least 25% to start and have seen information where some have cut N use by almost 90% after working with Sea-Crop for a few years in the fields. More to the story than that but basically you've got it right.

Not familiar with that book.

The Biological Farmer is geared towards farmers with open acreage so not particularly pertinent to indoor container growers but still lots of good information can be gleaned from it.