CNS17 grow Yellowing Leaves HELP!!!!!

[hydr1]

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. 3800 HPS in flower room / 8 bulb t5 in veg

.2) Distance from hoods to plant tops? 24 inches
.3) Reflector type? xxxl magnum, daystar, radiant, / hydrofarm t5 4ft 8 bulb
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes, co2 plus air exchange
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes in both areas
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 12/12 - 24

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil? Botanicare readygro coco/ fox farm soil w/ perlite
.8) Size of container. 5 gal, 3 gal , 1/2 gallon
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? rapid rooter, straight to soil, rock wool

Your Nutrients and Water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? R/o about 7.0
11) Method of checking water ph. hannah PH pen , Calibrated to 7.0
12) Method of adjusting water ph.PH up and down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. CNS17 grow /Bloom, liquid karma, cal mag, molasis
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? feeding 1/2 strength daily
15) Any additives or tea's? Cal Mag, Liquid Karma, Molasis
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? now stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 5.8 going in....need to check runoff tonight
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 9 x 15 x 7 room with 4x4 tent inside
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? 85 F 45% 70 F 50%
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? pest free as of now

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)
Indicas, sativas, hybrids
24) From seeds or clones? seeds and clones
25) Is this an autoflower strain? no

Hey guys. Im comming to you with a problem I am having, have had and am continuing to have. I just fucked a whole crop...60 plants. Things arent good when you blow 2 months of power and 60 plants.


I had this problem in my room from the start of my grow, 3 different batches of clones from different people, clones from my own moms. Plants all came in healthy and green. I have this problem in my open flower rooma nd my tent. After I have them for 4 days they start to get a light green color like this.

These are brand new cuts. I just put them in the tent last week...they are showing very first symptoms.
watered with
r/o, --
CNS17 grow 8ml per gallon(2ml less than suggested)
liquid karma (suggested amount)
Cal Mag (suggested amount)
5ml of mollasis
fans blowing, exhaust, 75-80 F , 45% Hum
effecting coc and soil

***notice the new groth is whats effected.

After the problem continues it spread more like this.
THis is Delerium

This is a Platinum Bubba that was dark green a week ago...thank god i took cuts from her and they are still green

And my fucking chocalope...

it looks like it can be fixed.
the leaves are turning paper white and very thin and soft.

Is this just a serious lack of Iron and Mag?

Ph 5.8
Temps 85 F
Co2 PPM 1020
45% Hum
air exchange
fans


Help me please....my whole crop is ruined and I cant ever let this happen again.

I will rip down my whole room and rebuild it if I need to, Ill change anything and buy anything. Im helpless. Please please help these girls

Before

 

[CovertCrops]

Hydr1 - how much sulfur is in The CNS 17?

 

[hydr1]

none that i know of....

were all thinking sulpher.....but look at this

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=103659

Im going to remove the tent and construct a veg area from 2x4s and mylar.

 

[hydr1]

CNS17 is ideally suited to wide range of vegetable, flower and fruiting crops grown hydroponically , in the soil or soilless grow substrates. While CNS17 is very effective in all substrates, growers using Coco coir fiber will be particularly impressed. CNS17 is formulated to contain optimum levels of calcium and nitrogen required to offset the high level of potassium that naturally occurs in coco fiber. CNS17 is the result of new production technology allowing us to create a professional strength one part fertilizer containing all the required nutrients in the correct balance. CNS17 combines high levels of calcium with sulfates and phosphates to provide a complete spectrum of plant nutrients. Virtually no other commercial hydroponic single part nutrient offers the spectrum of nutrients that are contained in CNS17. Additionally, when diluted with water, the molecular composition of CNS17 allows the organic structures to hydrolyze providing an energy source for beneficial microbes in solution.

 

[PharmaCan]

Hydr1 - how much sulfur is in The CNS 17?

It doesn't say on the label, doesn't even mention sulfur, but the magnesium is from magnesium sulfate, if that makes any difference.

Hydr1 - I start using CNS17 Grow at 1/4 strength the second day my clones have been planted in coco. (They're well rooted in Rapid Rooters first.) Within five days they are on full strength CNS17 all by itself; and I use R/O water too. You shouldn't really need CalMag+ with CNS17 unless you see a deficiency. I've had real good results with CNS17 Grow all by itself in veg, but I can't do well with it in bloom so I switch to AN products for flowering.

Are you mixing coco and soil or do you have some plants in soil and some in coco? If you have some plants in coco and some in soil, you can't water the soil plants as often as the coco plants. If you mixed coco and soil, who told you that was a good idea? Don't mean to treat you like an idiot here, it's just I don't quite understand what you are saying about the coco and soil.

PC

 

[PharmaCan]

Damn I type slow. lol

Hydr1 - if that other thread is correct then you need to add Micro to your brew. I have some OG Kush going right now that likes to get a bit of a Phosphorous deficiency kinda easily and I've had to add Micro to my CNS17 Grow a couple of times to clear that up - CalMag doesn't have the micros you need. There may be other stuff besides Micro (from 3-part nutes), but that's what I use.

Regardless, still need to know what's up with the soil/coco thing.

What kind of tent do you have? You do know about the toxic tents, don't you?

PC

 

[Chem&M]

My first instinct says you've got either a Mag/Sulpher def. I recently had a touch of one and it looked similar. I see you are using Cal/mag and molasses, so there has to be something we're missing here.

What are night temps like? Low night temps can cause natural light green/yellowing on new growth, but this looks like a combination of that and Mag. to me.

I suggest an epsom foliar spray right before/after lights out. Should pick up in a day or two. Watch your phos too.

 

[hydr1]

I have had multiple strains, in multiple substrates.

Ive had tried all my strains in soil and all in coco.

i get clones healthy and green from a buddy and days later they show these symptoms.

I had everything in FFOF/ perlite.....had these same problems.
I have had a new batch in botanicare readygro soiless coco mix and after a few days they got these signs.

these plants were well rooted and dark green (see first and second pic)

I am not using much calmag and I havent tried adding micro nutes because I seriously think this is a problem with offgassing.

these are in a 100$ tent from ebay.

 

[max_well]

off gassing?

off gassing?

I had some very similar looking, quite confusing deficiencies in an ebb flow bucket system, and it turned out the problem was off gassing from some flexible PVC tubing that I purchased here: http://www.frogpondaquatics.com/product/BV600/BV600__Black_vinyl_tubing_58ID_x_78OD100ft.html

I modified an ebb&gro system to use larger flood and drain connections, and this tubing fit well, but has a bad plastic/chemical odor that didn't go away, and after a lot of brain-racking and unnecessary (in hindsight) rez changes, after replacing the tubing with tried and true, albiet harder to work with, hard black poly tubing, my plants recovered quickly.

Are you using any questionable tubing for solution transfer / watering?

It seems they contain the same kinds of plastic softening agents that led to off-gassing issues in tents that some folks posted here. From your pics it seems you are using a newer looking tent-- what brand is it? New models don't use such materials as I understand it.

good luck figuring things out.
Max

 

[hydr1]

Damn I type slow. lol

Hydr1 - if that other thread is correct then you need to add Micro to your brew.

What kind of tent do you have? You do know about the toxic tents, don't you?

PC

I really think this is a tent issue....with cal mag and molasis alone Im covering almost all my micro here...and there is EWC and other goodies in both the soil and soiless blend...these problems are happening to anything new or old that touches this tent.

the tent im afraid is my problem

 

[mexilandrace]

some pics look like nuteburn too.

I wonder about the PH as well.

other pictures look like some light bleaching, and all could be consistant with the off gassing issues I have read about on here.

Remove the tent and see if they improve, if not look to what I said before.

Are you mixing coco and foxfarm? I don't really understand what your substrate is.

 

[hydr1]

I had some very similar looking, quite confusing deficiencies in an ebb flow bucket system, and it turned out the problem was off gassing from some flexible PVC tubing that I purchased here: http://www.frogpondaquatics.com/product/BV600/BV600__Black_vinyl_tubing_58ID_x_78OD100ft.html

I modified an ebb&gro system to use larger flood and drain connections, and this tubing fit well, but has a bad plastic/chemical odor that didn't go away, and after a lot of brain-racking and unnecessary (in hindsight) rez changes, after replacing the tubing with tried and true, albiet harder to work with, hard black poly tubing, my plants recovered quickly.

Are you using any questionable tubing for solution transfer / watering?

It seems they contain the same kinds of plastic softening agents that led to off-gassing issues in tents that some folks posted here. From your pics it seems you are using a newer looking tent-- what brand is it? New models don't use such materials as I understand it.

good luck figuring things out.
Max

wel ...Ive been concerned with this too....My res is a rubbermaid trashcan....and it has a titanium heater in it....I was concerned with that as well.

My whole flower room had issues with this but ontop of that I was feeding at a high PH (6.5) since then I brought that down to 5.8 but those plants had been locked up and eaten themselves already.

My new fresh starts in this tent are my concern.

I have a rubbermaid trashcan for a res, I have a plastic 1" tubing and 1/4" tubing for my drip system.

But these plants effected are in a tent, they do get water from the res though.

 

[hydr1]

some pics look like nuteburn too.

I wonder about the PH as well.

other pictures look like some light bleaching, and all could be consistant with the off gassing issues I have read about on here.

Remove the tent and see if they improve, if not look to what I said before.

Are you mixing coco and foxfarm? I don't really understand what your substrate is.

the last few pics with buds....those are from the flower room...I did have a serious lockout problem...then when i flushed and adjusted they burned.....Im not concerned with those cause Im gonna pull them all and make oil from them.

Im worried about the new plants that Im about to flower (if they dont worsen)

I am NOT mixing soiless and soil

I have plants in both seperatly and both are effected.

 

[hydr1]

bump...

can anyone confirm this is offgassing?

 

[hydr1]

So I just talked to a good buddy.....He has this exact same tent and he is not having offgassing problems....

He does have better air exchange in the tent though.

Im running a cheapo home depot ceiling exhaust fan.

Im going to try hooking up a 6" inline fan and get some air cycling through there.

so my issues here are either

Offgassing--highly possible
Sulfer------Doubt it...theres plenty in my nutes
Iron--------theres plenty in the nutes

tonight I will check PH run off.

if this issue had to do with PH, how would it happen (being too high or low)

what should my runoff be like if Im using Coco as a medium and Im feeding at 5.8

 

[CovertCrops]

I'm still thinking sulfer def. Botanicare sells "Sweet" which is a magnesium and sulfur supplment probably because it is lacking in their nutes. There is no sulfur in PBP, Cal-mag, and from what pharmacan said maybe just a tiny bit in the CNS17 from the magnesium sulfate. Try supplementing your micro/trace nutes, Earth Juice microblast would do the trick. I wish you luck resolving your problems.

 

[PharmaCan]

hydr1 - If you read the the Canna website, it says that coco run-off isn't really a very good indicator of anything. (I suppose if it were incredibly high or incredibly low it might be an indicator, but...)

You might try finding a nutrient absorption chart and see what the ideal pH for sulfur is. Coco has a natural pH of about 7, and it is going to try to push the pH of whatever you put in it up to around 7. I use my nutes at around 5.5. Once they are in the coco the pH will slowly increase, giving the plants a wider range of pH for absorption purposes.

You should search some of the toxic tent threads from about a year ago. Lots of good info there.

PC

 

[RugerBaby]

I bought a cheap one off ebay too...

I hope the problem isn't the tent. What color is the inside of your tent? I bought one that says it has "Mylar" inside. Its shiny, I'm pretty sure im good..lol

 

[hydr1]

my tent is mylar....i have 3 buddies running the same one it turns out and thye dont have problems...but they had better ventilation.


So i put a6" vortex in there and now its a vacume inside.

the plants are looking better.

The problem is either from low ventilation inside a plastic tent or from contaminated CALMAG causing a lockout which makes the plant convert o2 into peroxide...causing bleaching and necrosis

 

[hazy]

OK. Your plants have yellowing on upper leaves. Some leaves show marginal chlorosis on recently mature leaves. Some have it bad. Also some interveinal chlorosis.

First the upper leaves affected point to immobile elements. These include:
Calcium, Sulfur, Manganese, Iron, Boron, Zinc.
Most of these get locked out at high pH.
A Sulfur def will show as general lightening over the entire plant, mostly at the top. Iron usually shows nice dark green veins with yellow between. Mang can cause yellowing between veins too. and give that arrowhead of green in the middle of leaflets. Molybdenum can cause that spotting mottled look. lack of Boron will cause brittle leaves and poor bud growth etc.

All these elements are micro nutrients supplied by the micro nute bottle. I bet that's where your problem is.