Coco-Coir as a substitute for Peat??

[dank.frank]

Okay...I have ZERO peat in my current mix. I simply don't use it due to the effects it has on pH...

My current mix is something like this:

1 gal local organic soil (no nutrient profile)
1/2 gal perlite
1/4 gal EWC
guanos (as needed for cycle)
2 tbsp dolomite
1 tbsp Kelp meal

I let this "cook" for 2 weeks and moisten it with a mixture of 1 tbsp molasses and 5ml of Liquid Karma per gallon of RO water.

What I want to do is add coco-coir to this essential mix. The main reason for doing this is I want to reduce the amount of perlite I am using in the mix. Mostly because it is very dusty and has added N. So, I was thinking of cutting the perlite with the coir....or adding just as much coir as perlite to the mix...

I was asking earlier in chat if it was possible to mix soil and coco-coir and it was very clear that there were possible problems that could arise...would anyone care to explain why this is not a good idea?


dank.Frank

 

[latinomies]

I'm not sure about any problems, I just use pure coco coir w/ about 25-50% perlite and some guano. But I can tell you that there is certain kinds of perlite that don't give off any dust, I personally use J. Arthur Bowes, but I'm from the UK so depending on where youre from you might not be able to get it. I generally find that if you go to a real gardening shop and buy perlite you can get a much higher quality.. but it costs about 2x as much. Totally worth it IMO tho

 

[guest2012y]

I'll be doing something similar using coco instead of peat,this will be my first try at it. Maybe something like this:
1 gal coco
1 to 2 gal perlite
1 gal vermiculite
1 gal EWC
1 gal local screened and inspected topsoil
1 cup N gauno
1 cup P guano
1/2 cup kelp meal
2 tablespoons Dolomite
Activate with a compost starter and EWC tea and let it get down with it's funky self.

 

[Tropic]

Regarding possible problems from mixing coco and soil, I've been using a simple mix as a base for the last couple of years: 1/3 compost, 1/3 coco and 1/3 perlite (+1TBS dolomite/1.5gal). This provides a nice medium which can be amended according to cycle and needs. I have never come across any problems, but I would find it interesting to read others' opinions. The coco we get here isn't of the best quality, but a good flush prior to mixing does the trick. Innoculate, let cook for a couple of weeks and you're set, in my experience.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i recently started to use coco in my soil mix and i like the way it keeps the soil fluffy.
at 20% of the bulk - i havent encountered any problems.

 

[shallrelicme]

So I thought PH didn't matter in real organics?

 

[VerdantGreen]

depends on who you ask

i actually like the way peat makes the medium on the more acidic side - especially when using dolomite lime as a buffer.

but there are other threads discussing pH if you look.

V.

 

[Microbeman]

I've never used coco but logic prevaling it is not likely that a coconut product would contain humus and plant/soil based microbes that are normally contained in peat moss. Besides the potential unsustainability issue around peat harvesting, personally I would lean towards it because of the disease preventing microbial make up and the sequestered nutrient value in its humus component. Here is an interesting albeit commercial link;
http://www.peatmoss.com/hortprog1.php
Please note that reports stating that peat moss is an inert medium are unsubstantiated. It is loaded with microbial life as illustrated here; http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Canadian_Sphagnum_Peat

 

[VerdantGreen]

peat is used a lot in plant nurseries and there is good reason for that - but it suits situations with some kind of auto-watering because otherwise it dries out far to fast and is hard to re-wet when used on its own. i dont use it in my regular garden because of it's sustainability issues (composted bark/wood peat substitutes arent as good though)- but i have been using it for about 25-30% in my soil for growing weed. just sourced a product in the UK called moorland gold - which is peat that is produced as a by product of the water industry and is filtered out of the stream water. there may be equivalent products in the states too.

V.

 

[guest2012y]

This may sound crazy to you folks,but I re-hydrated my coco blocks with a mild EWC and compost starter tea. Thinking that I needed to add a little life to the otherwise lacking microbe population...What do ya' think?

 

[big ballin 88]

I use to grow mushrooms out a cakes of coco coir. I have no doubt in my mind that for organics it provides a good home for the microbes that are so essential to the organic process. Otherwise it would be hard to break down nutrients and make accessible to plants.

CaptCheeze- I believe hydrating your Coco with any sort of mild nutrient that is rich in microlife is a good idea. It gives them access to the unoccupied nutrient rich for micros such as trchoderma and bacillius to come and occupy. I'd also suggest mixing some myhrozzial fungi into the tea just to make sure they get a headstart as other species of fungi or bacteria grow more readily since their air borne/soil borne fungus/bacteria. After that it won't take long for the other beneficials to come along.

I use a majority coco since it provides gret soil texture when cut with some organic amendments such as 5% powderized kelp, guano, bone meal and some rainbow mix for the myco. Than i use 30% perlite an 30% vermiculite since it holds more water than coco. It may not seem like it but coco actually contains many of the nutrients that fungi need to thrive even without amendements.

 

[Microbeman]

I wish to note endomycorrhizal spores sprout only [with the exception of one isolated research report] in contact with host roots, therefore putting into compost tea is a waste. Also, it is not a great idea to use trichoderma spores and other fungal spores together. Trichoderma deteriorates other fungal species, generally speaking. It is great to activate and use against pathogenic fungi.

 

[Zeinth]

screw salts

screw salts

so done with salt ferts..

brewing some tea..and using coco with seabird,bat and other additives..

 

[guest2012y]

So I threw my mix together and popped a bouncing baby girl in a test pot,I chose not to let it breakdown before planting. I have a feeling It will be gentle enough on the clone as it balances out. I measured the transplant "water-in" run off out of curiosity and it read 5.8,not a bad sign even if run off measurements are not accurate. I ended up using 2 gallons of perlite because I was concerned about drainage...It looks good for a no peat mix,a little heavy due to the local topsoil,but it visually appears like the coco,perlite,vermiculite combo will hold enough water and drain well. I'll report about how it looks in a week.

 

[magiccannabus]

I use both peat and coco in my mix. Coco, however, is by far the more important of the two in my opinion. I love the two together though. Peat probably makes up no more than 20% of my mix, but it adds water retention, and adds a bit of diversity to my medium. Why even argue which is better when they're both useful? Even if you used the opposite of my proportions, with 50% peat, 20% coir, and 30% composts, perlite, vermiculite, etc.... you would still have a great mix. The next step is to use it correctly. I think it's very very important in an organic coco mix that you do not use water with chlorine, or chloramines in it. Before I switched to water without chlorine, my organic coco attempt was going very badly.

 

[dank.frank]

hahaha...just found this thread...again. Figured I'd update it a bit...

For the record, when I made that first post, I was just getting over a full reworking of many different aspects of the garden. I think the problems I was experiencing were not an issue with peat, but rather an issue with the coir I was using...lol. (ironic, no?) I was not rinsing it well enough, and was having excess salt issues.
**edit** I've also been using much higher quality coir since this as well...

I did however, come to a substrate mix in time, that I know use and will continue to use probably indefinitely...

4 gallons local organic potting soil (no base nutrient value)
1.5 gallons peat
1.5 gallons coir
3 gallons perlite
1 gallon EWC

I honestly have zero issues with this blend, pH or otherwise, and I truly love it's soil structure.



dank.Frank

 

[DARC MIND]

capt.
i do the same to my coco coir; ACT and ewc slurrys bombared my coco after i rinse the heck out it and i let it sit for a few weeks. even hit them w/ AEM once and my plants seem to enjoy the enriched coco as a amendment.

 

[NUG-JUG]

wow i didn't realize how thoroughly coir must be rinsed.

 

[guest2012y]

capt.
i do the same to my coco coir; ACT and ewc slurrys bombared my coco after i rinse the heck out it and i let it sit for a few weeks. even hit them w/ AEM once and my plants seem to enjoy the enriched coco as a amendment.

Wow....that seems like a long time ago when I threw that mix together..(which ended up being a bit different than that) I can't even recognize any coco or peat in it anymore.
I've since only been recycling my mix (maybe about 6 times now) and I've only been adding organic ferts,minerals,pumice,EWC,top soil,and compost..always more compost than anything.

 

[Dawn Patrol]

I did however, come to a substrate mix in time, that I know use and will continue to use probably indefinitely...

4 gallons local organic potting soil (no base nutrient value)
1.5 gallons peat
1.5 gallons coir
3 gallons perlite
1 gallon EWC

I honestly have zero issues with this blend, pH or otherwise, and I truly love it's soil structure.
dank.Frank

Sounds like a great mix DF, gonna give this a run on some clones this fall. You growing inside or outside?