Understanding IBL's

[Snype]

If I pollinate an IBL (for example Rezdogs Sour Diesel IBL), Sour Diesel Male X Sour diesel Female, will I have a good chance of getting seeds as good as the original female if I have a tested male or do I have to back cross it a bunch of times?

At that first cross, is the offspring an IBL, a F1, or F2 or something else?

 

[Guason272]

Hola,

error

Nos vemos

 

[Big Beans]

Its not f2, as it is already an ibl. Yes they will be similar to the mum, but like you said a bcak cross would really hone it in

 

[brain candy]

Isn't there a disadvantage to growing inbred lines? It is not a good practice when it comes to people, dogs, etc so surely it has it's drawbacks with plants?? Less vigour, mutants, etc?? I'm sure there are benefits such as less variation, etc, but not sure if the benefits outweigh the negatives. I remember seeing a grow recently with several different strains and the Sour D IBL's seemed to be lagging.. Can anyone knowledgeable comment on this please? Thanks.

 

[BeAn]

^^Big.B is right, progeny of IBL siblings are IBL as long as no un-related genes are introduced, the term IBL is used loosly, so depends on how homogenous the ''IBL'' in question is...

 

[VerdantGreen]

yes im not sure how inbred rez's lines are but a proper ibl inbred for 5 or 6 generations will give more ibl seeds
some IBL's still have a few different phenos though - but the appearance of the phenos will be stable too

V.

 

[3dDream]

From Chimera:

The problem with %99.99 of today's supposed IBLs is that they were not created with care or thought to future development/ refinement within the line. Let's be honest - Most IBL's are seed hack jobs created by posers.

IBLs should be created by using large populations of breeding individuals over generations and generations. If you are seeing genetic weakeness and the line is losing vigour, it's already too late in the program to fix it... the only way to repair the pool is to go back to previous generations that show less inbreeding depression, and start anew or mate them to the line that is further 'refined- and I use that term loosley. If the pool was created using just a couple of individuals, there is no way to repair the pool and keep it pure....the problems you are seeing are the result of the initial hackjob.

When breeding outcrossing species, the idea is to SLOWLY move the genepool/ population towards a given ideal, over many gnerations by breeding all of the individuals that meet your goal, all the while rejecting and excluding individuals that don't meet the given goal from the breeding population. This is called recurrent selection.

Recurrent selection will fix the selected attributes over time, all the while providing enough genetic variation for the traits not under selection to prevent inbreeding depression, and still maintain enough genetic diversity for future down-line selection.

This is why it's impossible to create an 'IBL' in just a few years- those that you see advetised as such on these forums do not qualify as true IBL, other than that they were subject to inbreeding.

-Chimera

 

[Snype]

Thank you everyone for your help

 

[englishrick]

hat quote from chim is wickid!!

 

[V1AAA]

i gotta question

if i pick out a super tasty ssh female and cross her to a big, strong fast growing male ssh, then grow out them beans, and again pick out the best tasting ssh fe, make more beans using my male until my pheno's are more uniform (the better tasting side of the ssh) what would my seeds be?

out of interest, ive done this already

also thrown some jamaican high grade, and sweet thai male pollen into the equastion

what will these beans be? thai x ssh, and jam high grade x ssh???

from initial testing, i have no hermies. also kinda strange, there were more female to male on the ratio front, but i guess thats luck (unless some1 tells me otherwise)

i am gonna have a go at sts when i have some room. on this topic, can i pollinate my females under a 200w cfl using 18/6 then 12/12? if i can then i might have the room sooner rather than later

 

[Azra'eil]

i gotta question

if i pick out a super tasty ssh female and cross her to a big, strong fast growing male ssh, then grow out them beans, and again pick out the best tasting ssh fe, make more beans using my male until my pheno's are more uniform (the better tasting side of the ssh) what would my seeds be?

out of interest, ive done this already

also thrown some jamaican high grade, and sweet thai male pollen into the equastion

what will these beans be? thai x ssh, and jam high grade x ssh???

from initial testing, i have no hermies. also kinda strange, there were more female to male on the ratio front, but i guess thats luck (unless some1 tells me otherwise)

i am gonna have a go at sts when i have some room. on this topic, can i pollinate my females under a 200w cfl using 18/6 then 12/12? if i can then i might have the room sooner rather than later

Hi V,

Mr nice SSH seeds are F1 hybrid they are the result of crossing two Inbred Lines (IBL) : (Northern Light #5 x Haze C) X (Skunk #1 x Haze C) so i don't know what greenhouse or reeferman SSH are but surely not F1 ( and i don't know which one you have) if you cross mr nice SSH to herself you will have an F2 generation and if you do it again it will be an F3 ect....
about your crosses with thai and jam, just for information in botanical therms, we note the female before the x and the male after....female x male. but your crosses with thai pollen or jam pollen will not be true F1 because the parents are not homozygous for many traits, your crosses will be polyhybrids : crosses of two hybrids (heterozygous), it will be very very very difficult to stabilize these lines nearly impossible without growing thousands of it....but if you goal is to create a few nice lines of yours its not a problem you don't need to complicate your life, select the best and cross it, look to the progeny carefully and again select the best. you can try backrossing with your better mothers but again you will need a stable line to corectly backross ( check chimera posts about it if you don't have read it yet )
on the f/m ratio i think often with sativas you have a better female ratio but it depends.... its cool for you man.
as for sts im not an expert nor a fan so i will let an other help you but think of one thing, in life errors happens and do you really want to fucked up your best mothers and parental stock with hermi genes and lose your nice crosses you have made.....if you do it , do it in a place far far away your breeding stock i mean not an other room next your mothers room i mean an other place....
good luck and have fun.
sincerly

Az

 

[V1AAA]

nice post az and thanks

so we have gone 110 beans into the f2's and 240 odd into the f3's.

we have found 5 pheno's. 4 of them great in flavour, which is what we are looking for. also speed and yield. 1 of the 5 smells great in the bag, and looks very similar to the others, but it isnt. this 1 i dont like

defo got a good 9 week pheno in there with the old ssh taste from the days that won the cup. another 1 that tastes inbetween ssh and nevils haze.

we have another that tastes like mango's, but yield isnt great. it doesnt stretch much and grows short main arms. this one is my favourite flavour due to its indiviuality. it grows very strong like a pit bull. strong stems that hold themselfs high. no need for support. big fat leaves that range from 3 leaf to 9. and they are always up. lights on or off the leaves stay up

the poly's as you put them are all very similar in every way. i kinda think they took from the mum's side in a big way.

i wont ask what s1's are

Hi V,

Mr nice SSH seeds are F1 hybrid they are the result of crossing two Inbred Lines (IBL) : (Northern Light #5 x Haze C) X (Skunk #1 x Haze C) so i don't know what greenhouse or reeferman SSH are but surely not F1 ( and i don't know which one you have) if you cross mr nice SSH to herself you will have an F2 generation and if you do it again it will be an F3 ect....
about your crosses with thai and jam, just for information in botanical therms, we note the female before the x and the male after....female x male. but your crosses with thai pollen or jam pollen will not be true F1 because the parents are not homozygous for many traits, your crosses will be polyhybrids : crosses of two hybrids (heterozygous), it will be very very very difficult to stabilize these lines nearly impossible without growing thousands of it....but if you goal is to create a few nice lines of yours its not a problem you don't need to complicate your life, select the best and cross it, look to the progeny carefully and again select the best. you can try backrossing with your better mothers but again you will need a stable line to corectly backross ( check chimera posts about it if you don't have read it yet )
on the f/m ratio i think often with sativas you have a better female ratio but it depends.... its cool for you man.
as for sts im not an expert nor a fan so i will let an other help you but think of one thing, in life errors happens and do you really want to fucked up your best mothers and parental stock with hermi genes and lose your nice crosses you have made.....if you do it , do it in a place far far away your breeding stock i mean not an other room next your mothers room i mean an other place....
good luck and have fun.
sincerly

Az

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

V1AAA, that plant you describe sounds exactly like a strain I messed with 20 years ago. It was gifted to me as 'cali citrus' from a Humbolt grower friend. Visually, it resembled the Michoacan plant pictured in A.C.Clarks MJBotany. Stocky and strong stemmed, with a profusion of large upwards pointing fan leaves along the stem and a mangoey-cirtrus smell and flavor and lime green buds. Some were not such high yielders, but others pretty impressive. I crossed this strain a number of times with skunky, indicas and found quite a few plants with the distinctive 'haze' taste and smell.

 

[V1AAA]

i am no scientist, but have the hands on experience, and that particular plant i will x with my g13. im sure i can make her better

when i get a good camera i will come back here and show you 1 that my good mate has in his room.

i actually have some in my jar, but dont have a good camera to show the quality of the bud

one of my favourite smoke if i say so myself. it smells of mango/lemon from outside the block when your smoking it

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Sounds good, I'd love to see the picture, I have a fond memory for that strain.