omg you're right
WTf is going on...ive just a seen a bunch of other names that ae either gone or guest....
Some people have been cpmplaining about censorship and BH recently had one of his threads closed (deleted) so maybe that has something to do with it
G
Guest
BH hasn't gone anywhere, he closed his account because some asshat threatened to post his personal details, said asshat has now deleted account himself. I;m sure he'll be back when he feels a bit more safe.
I agree about the bladder, Chief, seems superfluous to me, I think a 25 micron screen over the funnel like I described is all it will require. Seems to me that the inventor added the bladder idea to further differentiate his method from the existing techniques to strengthen his patent application?
I agree about the bladder, Chief, seems superfluous to me, I think a 25 micron screen over the funnel like I described is all it will require. Seems to me that the inventor added the bladder idea to further differentiate his method from the existing techniques to strengthen his patent application?
I haven't read the patent thoroughly but it seems to me that it is intended to work a little diferent. It seems that it would work with the valve open and the adicional waiting time is so that the resin will travel (by its own weight) through the funnel and into the bladder. After all that time it takes for the resin to settle, the valve is closed and the bladder with water and resin is removed so the resin can be reclaimed.
This would make it indeed a bit of a different method comparing with filter bags. When you pull the working bag all the water will eventualy push some veg matter through the mesh. In the patented device only the resin (and anything else that might be heavier than water) will go through the mesh and the veg matter will float atop of the water.
I sometimes wondered why should one let the resin settle for so much time after mixing in the bags (lately I'm letting settle for no more than 10 minutes, usually only 5, to preserve flavor). After all, if we choose to not let it settle the water will push the resin through the mesh anyway when we pull the working bag. I guess the settling step won't make that much difference in yield but I am yet to test this hipothesys.
What now comes to mind as an interesting experiment is to replicate, with filter bags, this method of not letting the water push unwanted veg matter through the screen. One idea that comes to mind is using the working bag in a bucket with a valve on the botom to retrieve the settled resin, along with some water, but not much, as to not let any veg matter that is floating come even near the mesh. Or, a bladder could be attached to the valve and replicate exactly what the device does (or seems to do, or claims to do). After this, the retrieved water+resin can go through the other bags to separate all the usual grades.
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This would make it indeed a bit of a different method comparing with filter bags. When you pull the working bag all the water will eventualy push some veg matter through the mesh. In the patented device only the resin (and anything else that might be heavier than water) will go through the mesh and the veg matter will float atop of the water.
I sometimes wondered why should one let the resin settle for so much time after mixing in the bags (lately I'm letting settle for no more than 10 minutes, usually only 5, to preserve flavor). After all, if we choose to not let it settle the water will push the resin through the mesh anyway when we pull the working bag. I guess the settling step won't make that much difference in yield but I am yet to test this hipothesys.
What now comes to mind as an interesting experiment is to replicate, with filter bags, this method of not letting the water push unwanted veg matter through the screen. One idea that comes to mind is using the working bag in a bucket with a valve on the botom to retrieve the settled resin, along with some water, but not much, as to not let any veg matter that is floating come even near the mesh. Or, a bladder could be attached to the valve and replicate exactly what the device does (or seems to do, or claims to do). After this, the retrieved water+resin can go through the other bags to separate all the usual grades.
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http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...d=PTXT&s1=6,158,591&OS=6,158,591&RS=6,158,591
there is his patent, the process/procedure is unser the description
BEST MODE FOR CARRYING OUT THE INVENTION
Apparatus or extractor 10 includes a washing chamber 12 having an open (or openable) top 14, with a screen filter 16 disposed above a funnel-shaped settling chamber 18 having a collection neck 20 and a valve 22. Collection bottle 24 is placed below the valve 22, and may include a filter 26 to separate resin particles from the solute, as described infra.
In use, washing chamber 12 is filled with cold water (e.g. 0.degree.-15.degree. C.) to the level of the initial fill mark 12a. A quantity of plant material P is placed into the cold water, and then ice layer 30 consisting of crushed ice, ice cubes or snow may be placed on top of the plant material until the contents of the washing chamber rises to the level of the maximum fill mark 12b. Agitator 32 (such as an electric mixer with stirring whisks) is actuated to mix the contents, preferably in a sequence of mixing and non-mixing (soaking) intervals, to separate the resins from the plant material, as well as to create a solution of that part of the plant material which is soluble into the cold water. After the agitation is stopped, the resins will continue to settle into the settling chamber. The valve may be periodically opened to allow the resin and solution to pass to the paper filter, capturing the resins and allowing the solution to enter the collection bottle. Alternatively, the collection bottle may be directly connected to the valve, allowing the user to fill the bottle with resin/solute for later separation.
In typical dimensions the apparatus is capable of processing plant material in quantities from several grams to approximately 200 grams (dry weight, depending on the plant species). The development of the extractor was based in part on the result of experiments with resin extraction from the flowers, leafs and stems of the Navarretia sqarrosa (Eschs.). It is a member of the Phlox family (Polemoniaceae). It is a small flower (2 to 20 in.) and is well known for its medical properties to native Americans. The resin is visible to the bare eye and is concentrated on the flowers which are protected by sharp spikes and leaves and stems. It develops during early summer when it smells similar to coffee and changes its odor during ripening to "bacon like". Its strong odor makes it of interest to the fragrance industry.
In the washing or separating process, the container (washing chamber) 12 is filled with cold water to the initial fill mark, which is approximately 1.5" above the screen, to avoid direct contact of the plant material with the screen. After the plant material is placed in the water, smaller fibrous plant particles will absorb water and increase in size before reaching the screen. The plant material will also absorb water and become flexible. Stems are cut to a maximum length of approximately 2". The layer of ice cubes, crushed ice, or snow added on top of the plant material causes it to submerge, accelerating the process of water absorption. The ice will drop the temperature of the water and plant material to a point where the resins become brittle and break off of the surfaces of the agitated, flexible plant material. The separated resin particles are heavy and will drop down to the screen, where the light motion created by the "washing" motion above will wash these particles through the screen. In general a washing time from 30 to 60 minutes will separate more than 90% of the resin.
The screen size is related to the plant species being processed. The gaps have to allow the resin particles to penetrate, and are therefore relative to the specific physical properties of the plant material at cold temperature having been submerged in water.
Due to a buffer effect of the screen the liquid in the settling chamber below the screen is relatively still, and increasingly so towards the bottom. The bigger resin particles roll to the collection neck above the valve. Smaller particles may settle on the inclined surfaces of the chamber (e.g., approximately 45 degree angle), and have to be agitated to further descend, or will be washed out with the final drainage of the chamber. In the case of some plant material after about 30 minutes close to half, and after 60 minutes all the resin separated will have settled. The green to brown color of the liquid is due to water soluble plant components where the lighter essential oils and waxes are in the top layer, or due to undissolved fibrous plant particles suspended in the emulsion. After approximately 10 hours, these particles will have absorbed enough water and descend, clearing up the liquid substantially.
A highly fragrant waxy component can be removed from the liquid by injecting cold water, aerated cold water or fine air bubbles under high pressure causing a layer of foam to appear. This foam when separated (skimmed off) settles to a waxy liquid which is stable at room temperature, unlike the total liquids which start decomposing at room temperature after approximately 24 hours. After separating this waxy compound, the remaining solution may be used as an organic fertilizer as is, or concentrated.
The resin is finally removed from the container through the valve on the bottom and collected in a paper filter, which allows the water to drain. At the bottom layer of the liquid the water separates easy through the paper filter, while the higher levels may have a sealing effect on the filter.
All processes used to wash fabric (e.g., the use of a clothes washing machine) are of use in this method (washing forward, reverse, spinning, rinsing, settling/soaking times, etc.) The specific mechanical movement applied depends on the specific characteristics of the resins and plant materials to be processed. A plant specific sequence can be programmed and automated.
The filter size to separate the resin from the plant material is also plant specific. Resin particles when submerged require a slightly larger screen than dry particles due to their physical characteristics in a water emulsion. A sequence of different filter sizes allows further separation.
Any paper filter with pores smaller than the resin crystals and fragments removes the liquid from the resin. The bottom layer of the liquid can be passively removed from the resin (drip). To extract the resin from the total liquid large surface filters and pressure may be needed. In general, any combination of settling and pressure filtration is possible with the ice-water method.
While this invention has been described in connection with preferred embodiments thereof, it is obvious that modifications and changes therein may be made by those skilled in the art to which it pertains without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention. Accordingly, the scope of this invention is to be limited only by the appended claims and equivalents.
note: this thing doesn't hold any more than a 5 gal set of bags
there is his patent, the process/procedure is unser the description
BEST MODE FOR CARRYING OUT THE INVENTION
Apparatus or extractor 10 includes a washing chamber 12 having an open (or openable) top 14, with a screen filter 16 disposed above a funnel-shaped settling chamber 18 having a collection neck 20 and a valve 22. Collection bottle 24 is placed below the valve 22, and may include a filter 26 to separate resin particles from the solute, as described infra.
In use, washing chamber 12 is filled with cold water (e.g. 0.degree.-15.degree. C.) to the level of the initial fill mark 12a. A quantity of plant material P is placed into the cold water, and then ice layer 30 consisting of crushed ice, ice cubes or snow may be placed on top of the plant material until the contents of the washing chamber rises to the level of the maximum fill mark 12b. Agitator 32 (such as an electric mixer with stirring whisks) is actuated to mix the contents, preferably in a sequence of mixing and non-mixing (soaking) intervals, to separate the resins from the plant material, as well as to create a solution of that part of the plant material which is soluble into the cold water. After the agitation is stopped, the resins will continue to settle into the settling chamber. The valve may be periodically opened to allow the resin and solution to pass to the paper filter, capturing the resins and allowing the solution to enter the collection bottle. Alternatively, the collection bottle may be directly connected to the valve, allowing the user to fill the bottle with resin/solute for later separation.
In typical dimensions the apparatus is capable of processing plant material in quantities from several grams to approximately 200 grams (dry weight, depending on the plant species). The development of the extractor was based in part on the result of experiments with resin extraction from the flowers, leafs and stems of the Navarretia sqarrosa (Eschs.). It is a member of the Phlox family (Polemoniaceae). It is a small flower (2 to 20 in.) and is well known for its medical properties to native Americans. The resin is visible to the bare eye and is concentrated on the flowers which are protected by sharp spikes and leaves and stems. It develops during early summer when it smells similar to coffee and changes its odor during ripening to "bacon like". Its strong odor makes it of interest to the fragrance industry.
In the washing or separating process, the container (washing chamber) 12 is filled with cold water to the initial fill mark, which is approximately 1.5" above the screen, to avoid direct contact of the plant material with the screen. After the plant material is placed in the water, smaller fibrous plant particles will absorb water and increase in size before reaching the screen. The plant material will also absorb water and become flexible. Stems are cut to a maximum length of approximately 2". The layer of ice cubes, crushed ice, or snow added on top of the plant material causes it to submerge, accelerating the process of water absorption. The ice will drop the temperature of the water and plant material to a point where the resins become brittle and break off of the surfaces of the agitated, flexible plant material. The separated resin particles are heavy and will drop down to the screen, where the light motion created by the "washing" motion above will wash these particles through the screen. In general a washing time from 30 to 60 minutes will separate more than 90% of the resin.
The screen size is related to the plant species being processed. The gaps have to allow the resin particles to penetrate, and are therefore relative to the specific physical properties of the plant material at cold temperature having been submerged in water.
Due to a buffer effect of the screen the liquid in the settling chamber below the screen is relatively still, and increasingly so towards the bottom. The bigger resin particles roll to the collection neck above the valve. Smaller particles may settle on the inclined surfaces of the chamber (e.g., approximately 45 degree angle), and have to be agitated to further descend, or will be washed out with the final drainage of the chamber. In the case of some plant material after about 30 minutes close to half, and after 60 minutes all the resin separated will have settled. The green to brown color of the liquid is due to water soluble plant components where the lighter essential oils and waxes are in the top layer, or due to undissolved fibrous plant particles suspended in the emulsion. After approximately 10 hours, these particles will have absorbed enough water and descend, clearing up the liquid substantially.
A highly fragrant waxy component can be removed from the liquid by injecting cold water, aerated cold water or fine air bubbles under high pressure causing a layer of foam to appear. This foam when separated (skimmed off) settles to a waxy liquid which is stable at room temperature, unlike the total liquids which start decomposing at room temperature after approximately 24 hours. After separating this waxy compound, the remaining solution may be used as an organic fertilizer as is, or concentrated.
The resin is finally removed from the container through the valve on the bottom and collected in a paper filter, which allows the water to drain. At the bottom layer of the liquid the water separates easy through the paper filter, while the higher levels may have a sealing effect on the filter.
All processes used to wash fabric (e.g., the use of a clothes washing machine) are of use in this method (washing forward, reverse, spinning, rinsing, settling/soaking times, etc.) The specific mechanical movement applied depends on the specific characteristics of the resins and plant materials to be processed. A plant specific sequence can be programmed and automated.
The filter size to separate the resin from the plant material is also plant specific. Resin particles when submerged require a slightly larger screen than dry particles due to their physical characteristics in a water emulsion. A sequence of different filter sizes allows further separation.
Any paper filter with pores smaller than the resin crystals and fragments removes the liquid from the resin. The bottom layer of the liquid can be passively removed from the resin (drip). To extract the resin from the total liquid large surface filters and pressure may be needed. In general, any combination of settling and pressure filtration is possible with the ice-water method.
While this invention has been described in connection with preferred embodiments thereof, it is obvious that modifications and changes therein may be made by those skilled in the art to which it pertains without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention. Accordingly, the scope of this invention is to be limited only by the appended claims and equivalents.
note: this thing doesn't hold any more than a 5 gal set of bags
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Well, I was wrong. The procedure includes draining the water wich is the same method we use with the bags. Anyway, I will try and test my theory of not draining all the water (at least in the first run to try and get the full melting goodness 
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Thanks for posting the procedure Chief.
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.Thanks for posting the procedure Chief.
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marv
Member
For any knowledge on the technique of water extraction has will see this fabulous article on the subject to treatingyourself.com issue 19
Great work
Great work
