What really makes smoke harsh?

[maryjohn]

I thought a thread on this would be interesting. Maybe we could, without judgement, all give our take on this. I would kindly ask that if you see your theory listed and explained already, there is no need to list it again. Just give us a "me too". I can add a poll once we have enough responses, or someone else can if that's not just for the thread starter. I want to stress again, please do not critique the other posts. Just give your thoughts so we can all get along. It's a sensitive subject for many.


I am very convinced that the biggest factor of all is the temperature at which the material burns. Hot smoke causes physical trauma to the delicate tissues of the upper respiratory tract. Dry buds burn faster and hotter than moist ones. Much hotter. Leaf material and fibrous material also seems to burn hotter than the reproductive parts, so varieties with a lot of leaf burn hotter, and are more harsh to smoke.


ok, there are a whole lot more experiences and thoughts out there, let's get them collected. And happy new year!

 

[budchopper]

yes happy new yr.
i have added ground mint leaves to harsh smoke, just a little helps alot.
apple peals put in sac is good too.
put in freezer to make a cooler smoke.

 

[jaykush]

its little tiny green gremlins inside the buds didn't you know that?

 

[staff11]

Yeah, don't feed them after midnight!

 

[maryjohn]

Ah Jay, Gremlinus canabacae v. taestlikehay

I thought they were legend?

 

[big ballin 88]

Nitrogen is the main cause of harshness in smoke that's why a flush is recommend. The other main elements aren't nearly as harsh. Moisture can also be a bad thing if the bud is fresh. The main killer of the throat is to me is chlorophyll

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I think like most things, genetics plays the biggest role. Chlorophyll and other water soluables in the sap can contribute to many tastes at various stages of curing, and those water soluables vary much depending on the breeding. The water soluables degrade faster than the resins, so as their influences on taste wane, the tastes of the resin(s) come foreward. When the bud is still fresh, the water soluables can add harshness, but it's true that well cured and (slightly) rehydrated bud smokes smoother than overdried. Harshness of the resin(s) vary quite a bit genetically as well, and don't get much better with long curing.

 

[jaykush]

I thought they were legend?

nope you were wrong

 

[VerdantGreen]

i would say

1. too high concentrations of salts in the buds from too much ferts

2. chlorophyll - gives that 'minty' taste. curing can help with this

3. letting it dry too fast - i've started leaving the leaves on now for slower dry and trimming after

4. genetics

5. allowing the proper flavor of a strain to develop, the terpenes etc when ripened properly, can help mask any harshness or other nasty flavors. i am convinced that guano really brings out the smells and flavors of weed, and also maybe using some real soil in your mix rather than soilless.

V.

 

[skunktoker]

i would say

1. too high concentrations of salts in the buds from too much ferts

2. chlorophyll - gives that 'minty' taste. curing can help with this

3. letting it dry too fast - i've started leaving the leaves on now for slower dry and trimming after

4. genetics

5. allowing the proper flavor of a strain to develop, the terpenes etc when ripened properly, can help mask any harshness or other nasty flavors. i am convinced that guano really brings out the smells and flavors of weed, and also maybe using some real soil in your mix rather than soilless.

V.

Verdant hit it right on the head all the above and especially nitrogen

 

[Castelvetro]

if your growing for personal smoke u cant beat hammering your girls with nutes untill the very last minute and then watercuring your buds, this way u get max yeild/potency + pollutant free smoke. otherwise a poor flush creates bad taste, true a good flush which removes metals isnt enough to make a good taste, for this u need organics but green erb as nice as it looks is n ever as good as brown erb.

 

[maryjohn]

This is just rolling along, and everyone is sticking to the premise, EXCEPT JAY. But someone always has to be a wise-ass.

Keep it coming folks, and don't worry about what anybody might think. The point is to document our views for reference.

 

[jaykush]

lol ok ill play nice

im with verdant on the fast drying, slow drying is much better imo. same goes with drying all kinds of herbs not just cannabis.

and also no curing or bad curing. curing makes good pot, turn into amazing pot.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Yea on the slow drying. One thing often overlooked is the role big sunleaves have on slowing the drying and contributing to water soluable tastes. Too many people trim off the big leaves before drying, which though it does speed up the process, robs flavor, smell and shelf life of the finished bud.

 

[Castelvetro]

interesting point green, never heard of that before,,,mm keep the big fans on. maybe ill try it.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Sorry mj, I know this is a bit off topic, didn't mean to hijack. It's kind of intuitive if you think about it. There's lots of sap in the leaves and stems that makes it's way to the buds (last part to dry) during the drying. My theory is that the sap contains good stuff, but many people prefer the lighter green, more 'washed out' tasting bud these days, so it might be 'six of one, half dozen of the other'. Other growers near me have all switched to the 'leave the fan leaves on 'till dry' method, I suspect because they prefer the taste of my bud to theirs. I havn't personally made a test (and can't think of how) to compare final yield, but I have a feeling that leaving on fan leaves will actually yield more than cutting early, too.

To get back on topic, I wonder if it's a done deal that water soluables always contribute to stronger tastes and smells? Maybe some would make the final smoke smoother or less smelly?

 

[maryjohn]

Green, it's all good, keep the questions and ideas coming. Talking about your tastes and theories is not threadjacking, it's the very purpose! I bet more than a few people will find your view new and intriguing.

 

[MrFista]

"The formation of large electron dense globules called plastoglobuli is characteristic of the senescence of chloroplasts. These bodies are thought to have a role in lipid mobilization but may also be involved in the degradation of chlorophyll.

Once chlorophyll is separated from the proteins that bind it in the chloroplast membranes it becomes highly toxic, being very reactive to light. Therefore it is very important that chlorophyll is rapidly degraded as a protective measure against phototoxicity. Therefore having a functional chlorophyll degradation pathway is vitally important for plant development and survival."

Chlorophyll makes smoke harsh. Try smoke some shade leaves if you don't believe me.

Letting a plant undergo naturally occuring senescence. And proper curing. That's where the smooth buds at.

 

[phr3d0m2gr0]

Mr. Green, I'm wondering if you leave the yellow fan leaves on or if you only leave green leaves on while drying?

 

[medi-useA]

yes happy new yr.
i have added ground mint leaves to harsh smoke, just a little helps alot.

I've got Mint, Chocolate Mint and Apple Mint {tastes like granny smith} in bowls on my verandah...might try this one out!
Thanks

muA