What's Wrong With These Cheese Clones?

[RetroGrow]

These clones have some disease which seems to have been passed around to all my plants, including mothers in soil and and other clones in coco. It all started with some brown slime in my bubble and aerocloners . I had to shut those down after unsuccessfully trying to sterilize them. I put some of the clones in coco, and they rooted, but they have this persistent problem, with bottom leaves yellowing and dropping off, and brownish/rust color on leaf tips. I have been spraying with fungicides, and also some milk. If not sprayed, these plants go right down hill. They are getting lush green growth on top, but are still lolly popping on the bottom. It's not a PH thing. PH is monitored carefully and is fine, as is the run off PH. The nutes are good. Have been running this strain successfully for 2 years, but whatever this is, I can't get rid of it totally. Note that the roots look good.Here's some pictures:

 

[dmt]

id try my best to use light proof containers. take it from there, see what happens. u can duct tape the cups but they look root bound to. i cant see any infection anywhere, maybe im blind?

i took a better look. they need a good transplant to bigger slight proof pots. keep nutrients at 900, they look like they are growing pretty good, d

 

[Young Pumpkin]

One thing I think I noticed is it doesn't look like you have any drain holes in your cups. You need that if you don't have them already. Maybe they were turned away from the camera. Cup size does look small tho. I use the biggest beer cups I can find and raise mine to 12-16 inches, and a bit more root bound. Then I knock out the soil to go DWC. I'd ditch the clear cups for sure. You'll be transplanting soon one way or another. I don't think its disease imo. Maybe a transplant and some nutes, an a 'lil TLC. But I do soilless, never tried coco. No reason to panic I don't think. When you do transplant knock out all the old medium you can and start as fresh as possible. Your not bad IMO. Your not perfect but you are on your way.

 

[Phillthy]

brown slime is brown algae. try an earth worm casing tea in your solution after cleaning thoroughly.

 

[RetroGrow]

One thing I think I noticed is it doesn't look like you have any drain holes in your cups. You need that if you don't have them already. Maybe they were turned away from the camera. Cup size does look small tho. I use the biggest beer cups I can find and raise mine to 12-16 inches, and a bit more root bound. Then I knock out the soil to go DWC. I'd ditch the clear cups for sure. You'll be transplanting soon one way or another. I don't think its disease imo. Maybe a transplant and some nutes, an a 'lil TLC. But I do soilless, never tried coco. No reason to panic I don't think. When you do transplant knock out all the old medium you can and start as fresh as possible. Your not bad IMO. Your not perfect but you are on your way.

Cups have plenty of drainholes.
Definitely a disease, as all my plants have it, including 2 year old mothers in soil.
As I said, if I don't spray these, they die. Don't want to keep perpetuating sick clones, but if I had a cure, I would use it. The only reason those clones look decent is because they have been sprayed. Otherwise, they would be dead.

 

[RetroGrow]

brown slime is brown algae. try an earth worm casing tea in your solution after cleaning thoroughly.

Right, brown algae. But these are in coco now so there's no solution to clean. Whatever this is, it progresses and spreads to other plants if I don't spray them. I may have to destroy them all and start over if I can't pinpoint what is the cause.

 

[dmt]

hydrogen peroxide at 2ml/litre disinfects roots. foliar you can try 30ml h202 and 20 ml 99% iso alcohol.

and you arent feeding excessivly? starnge, d

ps ive been told people water daily in coco, i never do, treat it like soiless, wet and dry cycles.

 

[SuperConductor]

I can never enlarge those kind of pics but even at thumbnail size I can see those are not rootbound. Is this a new soil mix for you? If it's coco water every day. Looks like soil tho so how often are you watering?

Algae in a bubble cloner? Doesn't algae need light to grow? If it's spreading like you say it sounds like pithium/pythium unfortunately. I've never had it so do a search. Fingers crossed it's not tho cos it's bad.

 

[jyme]

I SEE PM.and i would set those clear cups in colored ones. i would give them a lil ferts as well 1/4 strenth.if it doesnt start to improve.i would get sone superthrive and wash the coco off with it.then replant them.

 

[mrbiggs]

my 2 cents, pot them up. dying lower foliage is a clear sign, and if you do have some algae problem (which i don't think you have as the roots are healthy ) would you not want the plant too be as healthy as it can be, to fight the prob.good luck
peace

 

[RetroGrow]

I SEE PM.and i would set those clear cups in colored ones. i would give them a lil ferts as well 1/4 strenth.if it doesnt start to improve.i would get sone superthrive and wash the coco off with it.then replant them.

Ah...that's not PM. It's residue from milk spraying!
Should have mentioned that.

 

[RetroGrow]

I can never enlarge those kind of pics but even at thumbnail size I can see those are not rootbound. Is this a new soil mix for you? If it's coco water every day. Looks like soil tho so how often are you watering?

Algae in a bubble cloner? Doesn't algae need light to grow? If it's spreading like you say it sounds like pithium/pythium unfortunately. I've never had it so do a search. Fingers crossed it's not tho cos it's bad.

That's what I am afraid of, pythium....

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

You'll probably ignore this advice since you've already decided you have a disease, but just on the off chance, I'll say it anyway. At the very least, I get practice putting my experience into words. You don't have a disease. When plants show any kind of visible damage, you can bet that there are already multiple problems, not just one. This is as true for wheat, tomatoes, chrysanthimums or whatever as it is with cannabis, but the difference is cannabis is even tougher than any of those, and takes even more 'insults' to show visible signs. To find something that causes multiple problems, we need to look further up the hierarchy of cause and effect than deficiency or disease (which might be present, but not causing such a visible problem to an otherwise healthy plant). I think your problem stems from a soilmix that you're not compatible with. In other words, your watering style coupled with that soilmix and repotting schedule doesn't meet the needs of the plants. I'd amend the straight coco with some drainage promoting non organics, mainly sand, gravel etc., but a little perlite too. Then repot into larger containers and try to get hipper to watering. It's really the 'high kungfu' of horticulture you know, no shame in studying it.

 

[RetroGrow]

You'll probably ignore this advice since you've already decided you have a disease, but just on the off chance, I'll say it anyway. At the very least, I get practice putting my experience into words. You don't have a disease. When plants show any kind of visible damage, you can bet that there are already multiple problems, not just one. This is as true for wheat, tomatoes, chrysanthimums or whatever as it is with cannabis, but the difference is cannabis is even tougher than any of those, and takes even more 'insults' to show visible signs. To find something that causes multiple problems, we need to look further up the hierarchy of cause and effect than deficiency or disease (which might be present, but not causing such a visible problem to an otherwise healthy plant). I think your problem stems from a soilmix that you're not compatible with. In other words, your watering style coupled with that soilmix and repotting schedule doesn't meet the needs of the plants. I'd amend the straight coco with some drainage promoting non organics, mainly sand, gravel etc., but a little perlite too. Then repot into larger containers and try to get hipper to watering. It's really the 'high kungfu' of horticulture you know, no shame in studying it.

Hey Greengenes, I appreciate the input, but maybe you didn't read my whole post, or maybe I did not communicate adequately. I would not ignore anyone's input and appreciate anyone's attempt at help. I am not a novice grower. I have been growing these strains successfully for 2 years in coco. Sometimes coco mixed with perlite, sometimes straight coco. Never had a problem either way. No problems, nice harvests. Not commercial grows, but strictly for good head stash. I had been rooting clones in an aerocloner. For months, I was popping out good clones, but I got careless by not cleaning said cloner. Needless to say, Clones got problems as slime was coating everything in the cloner, and also jumped to adjacent bubble cloners (tight space). My bad.Clones got seriously messed up-wouldn't root and had brownish slime on them. Tried cleaning cloner, but when started back up, it came right back. Shut down the cloners and tossed most of clones, but stuck a few in coco, where they eventually rooted after a long time (a month). However, all of these clones show "disease" symptoms. None of my other clones showed any of these symptoms before, although my potting methods and mix have been the same. Have tried re-potting, flushing, everything, but can't get rid of problem. In addition, problem has jumped to all my other plants, including mothers in soil which have been happy for 2 years-now they are dying. I have re-potted several of them and trimmed the roots back, but to no avail. Plants may have multiple problems due to weakened immune response. As I stated, these clones will die if not sprayed with fungicides. Hydro store guy (very experienced) thinks it's pythium. Having never had a problem like this before, I am somewhat at a loss. However, whatever it is, it is nasty and tenacious. Repotting, adjusting PH-things that you would normally try-are not effective. This is some kind of blight that has taken over which began in the res of my aerocloner. I have been battling this for 6 months, and have tried all the things you have suggested.
Thanks for the input.
Still trying to get a handle on this. It looks at this point that I will have to get rid of all plants and start over. Hate to lose these strains, but have no other solution at this point.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I didn't mean to suggest you don't have experience, things like watering and repotting are skills that I'm still improving after 41 years of growing. On the pythium, I've never seen it affect anything but roots. The common name of pythium is 'root rot'. If you're still convinced that choice of soilmix, rootspace and watering style couldn't promote such a condition as root rot, whether or not the disease 'pythium' were present, then I suppose you'll have to listen to your hydro guy expert and buy more products.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a cutting that was given to me with the warning it had 'pythium'. That was a few years ago and I've made many clones from clones of it and haven't seen any signs of disease on it or any of my other clones. But, I root in perlite and grow in organic soilmix with little or no coco, so my situation is different than yours.

 

[RetroGrow]

I didn't mean to suggest you don't have experience, things like watering and repotting are skills that I'm still improving after 41 years of growing. On the pythium, I've never seen it affect anything but roots. The common name of pythium is 'root rot'. If you're still convinced that choice of soilmix, rootspace and watering style couldn't promote such a condition as root rot, whether or not the disease 'pythium' were present, then I suppose you'll have to listen to your hydro guy expert and buy more products.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a cutting that was given to me with the warning it had 'pythium'. That was a few years ago and I've made many clones from clones of it and haven't seen any signs of disease on it or any of my other clones. But, I root in perlite and grow in organic soilmix with little or no coco, so my situation is different than yours.

I never said that "choice of soilmix, rootspace and watering style couldn't promote such a condition as root rot". You made that up. What I said was, it's not the case here. It's not a problem with "soilmix" (coco), potting, or watering. Those things have been pretty much worked out over the last 2 years of successfully growing the same strain. I don't know what it is, hence my posting of the question. I do know it isn't a soilmix, potting, watering or PH problem. Those things I am in tune with. I'm not saying it is pythium, because I am not an expert on plant disease. It was just a suggestion by "hydro guy", who in this case happens to be really experienced and knowledgeable, and wasn't trying to sell me anything.
That's fortunate about your cuts. But the opposite is happening here: cuts from these exhibit same problems.

 

[douser]

What about the environment your grow is in? Any possible undetected gasses in the area from chemicals or utilities? I am sure you covered cleanlyness already. Pythium is a root disease and would have a difficult time transmitting from plant to plant without direct contact. What are you using for fungicides and at what dose? Are you using H202?

 

[OMountainMix]

Maybe you should use hydrobact in your cloner. Clean the cloner after every round of plants. Make sure no light is getting in the cloner. Use power clone with the clones.

 

[cannaboy]

Basically you can't kill cheese its very old and will be around longer than you probably so don't worry, you need to make a fungaside and bug dip and dowse the plants in it then get some fresh soil and water rhizatonic and some zym's repot them ninto a big 11 ltr+ size and give them some good 250+hps light for a month keep checking for bugs then in a month get some new soil and a new propagator and make some fresh cuts you need to grow a mother outside for at least 3 months every year to let it regain vigour all should be good.

 

[RetroGrow]

Problem solved. It was broad/cyclamen mites. 100X scope confired this. Just never looked at my plants with a microscope before, basically because I never knew these things existed. Bumped this old thread so maybe it will help someone who is besides themselves trying to figure out what is wrong. There is now a broad mite thread, so all the info's there.