What Ive Learned About Femmed Seeds
- Thread starter D.S. Toker. MD
- Start date
Those were not fem seeds, Xtrail.
Are you certain about what you popped?
Are you certain about what you popped?
if the seeds are properly femmed, you shouldn't be getting males at all...of course if the "breeder"/seedbank has a race to win (money) they won't bother selecting a 100% female that's gonna be cloned and then treated with gibberellic acid to turn it male and use the pollen to make seeds...they are more likely to get the first female (that could hold the Y cromosome, yes cannabis has 4 sex chromosomes not 2 like us, how cool is that?) that looks good and self it...then if you grow the seeds without stressing them you're gonna get females, if you make the tiniest mistake then you get the males...
males can popup in feminized seeds,,,,,,
it all depends on the inderviduals that are used in making the seeds,,,,,,
it all depends on the inderviduals that are used in making the seeds,,,,,,
its classed as a hermi,,,,, BUT,,,,,,BIG BUT,,,,,,,,, ive heard of people using them males in crosses and having propper Dioecious populations
get on that
get on that
gardenlover
Member
I don't think we have enough information on female breading to accurately assess wether a male adds something that a female turned male cannot add. I think people think too much in terms of humans when trying to relate to their plants. Nature has a way of building in fail safes. I am sure this was probably natures response to a situation where there were too many females and not enough males, or in case plants were out of reach from anthers pollen. I guess my point is nature is incredibly complex and we have not experimented enough with this yet. I believe people are under the assumption that female breading is bad due to misinformation and her say. I also believe that in certain lines either the male or the female may be the gene holder for a desired trait and said trait may be bread out when using a same sex as in female breading. However I believe that all female breeding can still produce some great amazing plants, it just has not be documented enough. I will be trying a few different experiments to come to my own conclusion.
Don't just jump the bandwagon because everyone says so!
Don't just jump the bandwagon because everyone says so!
i grew sensi star regular and had only 2 phenos. one with slightly more yield the other was dripping with resin.
i didnt take cuttings and now that i want to buy it again they only sell fem version.
this sux! seedmarket is turning into shit.
i didnt take cuttings and now that i want to buy it again they only sell fem version.
this sux! seedmarket is turning into shit.
a femmed seed can only provide the exact genes as the mother. it can not add anything else...period! think of it like this if you cloned a human you cant get anything else but the same human...how that human is raised is a different story the experiences will be different
a fem seed is an exaclt replica of it mother...but if a female if bred with the polen of another female forced to produce male parts ie pollen then the second female can add diffenent genes. This does not factor in any mutations or falures - really the same things but technically different - a plant could have during any part of the grow process.
mutations or what could be called a mutation could simply be a characteristic showing due to a differnet stress during its life. think of two identical clones but one being exposed to something like...radiation or a toxin.
man i'm way to stoned to be writing this stuff right now.
a fem seed is an exaclt replica of it mother...but if a female if bred with the polen of another female forced to produce male parts ie pollen then the second female can add diffenent genes. This does not factor in any mutations or falures - really the same things but technically different - a plant could have during any part of the grow process.
mutations or what could be called a mutation could simply be a characteristic showing due to a differnet stress during its life. think of two identical clones but one being exposed to something like...radiation or a toxin.
man i'm way to stoned to be writing this stuff right now.
To answer gardenlover in evolution what happens is that organisms start as "females" and then evolve a "male" counterpart to bring genetic differentiation to allow variability of traits in order to adapt therefore survive. so males have evolved to avoid stagnation of genes.
that's why feminizing is not so different from cloning but at the same time it's NOT the SAME thing...because a clone does not allow for recombination while feminization does. reason why you have different phenotypes stemming from feminized seeds.
yes you can use males to make dioecious plants but they are XXXY in their sexual chromosomes and that brings hermaphrodites if not grown in plenty of UV light and moisture (which would bring out female traits w/ a very low incidence of males or hermies, to answer someone else's post)
that's why feminizing is not so different from cloning but at the same time it's NOT the SAME thing...because a clone does not allow for recombination while feminization does. reason why you have different phenotypes stemming from feminized seeds.
yes you can use males to make dioecious plants but they are XXXY in their sexual chromosomes and that brings hermaphrodites if not grown in plenty of UV light and moisture (which would bring out female traits w/ a very low incidence of males or hermies, to answer someone else's post)
also to give an idea of what happens in proper feminization
XXXX female is cloned
XXXX female clone is treated with gibberillic acid
XXXX female clone produces male pollen
this pollen is used upon the original XXXX female
to make XXXX seeds
that's the theory behind feminized seeds
if the female is not
XXXX but XXXY it will bring out the Y trait at some point
the f1 is going to have both XXXY XXXX
imagine if a femmed hybrid is made between two different females that are both
XXXY and XXXY you ARE going to get proper males (XXYY)
it's all in the time a breeder wants to spend in making sure the females used are real females or hermaphroditic females...
XXXX female is cloned
XXXX female clone is treated with gibberillic acid
XXXX female clone produces male pollen
this pollen is used upon the original XXXX female
to make XXXX seeds
that's the theory behind feminized seeds
if the female is not
XXXX but XXXY it will bring out the Y trait at some point
the f1 is going to have both XXXY XXXX
imagine if a femmed hybrid is made between two different females that are both
XXXY and XXXY you ARE going to get proper males (XXYY)
it's all in the time a breeder wants to spend in making sure the females used are real females or hermaphroditic females...
Obviously some people here who know what's going on......so if I force (stress) a female to produce a male flower then fertilize her sister clone and get a seed..............will this seed be a healthier version of the parent? My BK kush cloning stock came to me with a weak ass root system,hard to root,and just overall weak root development throughout the life cycle of the plant. Have I improved the root system by "feminizing" the strain?
gardenlover
Member
Norm thanks for the answer. I did not know that. It makes sense to me and I will keep that in mind when making hypotheses.
Capt.Cheeze1 in theory if you do what you prepose and make an S1 it should perform similar to what you have. But you will never know for sure unless you try it. A lot of variable come into play that no one can predict. If the plant is that great I would defiantly give it a shot and grow out a bunch and maybe one will have a better root system for what ever reason; mutation even. I would also get another female of a different line knocked up as well. Maybe this one pass's on the desirable traits and also has a healthy root system.
Capt.Cheeze1 in theory if you do what you prepose and make an S1 it should perform similar to what you have. But you will never know for sure unless you try it. A lot of variable come into play that no one can predict. If the plant is that great I would defiantly give it a shot and grow out a bunch and maybe one will have a better root system for what ever reason; mutation even. I would also get another female of a different line knocked up as well. Maybe this one pass's on the desirable traits and also has a healthy root system.
Thanks!..........I plan on crossing it with Hawiian X Cotton Candy...The mother being the Hawiian,hopefully this boosts the Hawiian up a notch as far as getting some of that "berryish" type trait in there..should be good,but wish the Kush was just a better performer. That's why I asked if her seed would produce a better root system.
well you might just succeed but if your clones haven't shown male flowers it might be an XXXX female and you would have to treat it with gibberellic acid...but you never know untill you stress the hell out of the plant if it's XXXX or XXXY (usually XXXY show male flowers when cloned...but still it's not mathematical)
and again you MIGHT make it develop a stronger root system as well as you MIGHT NOT only experimentation will tell...however it's up to you (i would still save the pollen for the experimentation.... make loads of seeds etc to see what happens genetically wise, but that's just me )
and again you MIGHT make it develop a stronger root system as well as you MIGHT NOT only experimentation will tell...however it's up to you (i would still save the pollen for the experimentation.... make loads of seeds etc to see what happens genetically wise, but that's just me
)
Already forced(stressed) a girl and have the seed..but did not have the Hawiian to fertilize.........just have to stress Mama kush again and this time save some pollen....Thanks for the feed back.
One thing to remember, that i forgot to mention, is that cannabis genetics are only recently being researched and most info we have is due to direct experience and observation. what i'm saying is that we can only be half-sure on the nature of cannabis sex genetics. partially because noone has actualy gone to check if the sex traits are given by polyploidity or not (also because often polyploidity can be a problem to the plant, see the Cannabis Breeder's Bible for a whole chapter about the condition). there's another school of thought that believes the hermaphroditic trait is not actually given due to the condition of XXXY but by a "mutated" (another incognita in the equation) gene on the X chromosome that gives the male trait to the plant under stress conditions...so a normal chromosome would have the X and the hermaphrodite the x
and these would be the outcomes according to this view:
Xx is the plant that needs to be stressed
xx is pure hermaphroditic (monoecious in this case) and shows without needing stress
XX is true female
XY is true male
xY is a male that becomes hermaphroditic
one last thing....a TRUE hermaphrodite will develop bananas from a female (pistillate) calyx and is not necessarily fertile...
and these would be the outcomes according to this view:
Xx is the plant that needs to be stressed
xx is pure hermaphroditic (monoecious in this case) and shows without needing stress
XX is true female
XY is true male
xY is a male that becomes hermaphroditic
one last thing....a TRUE hermaphrodite will develop bananas from a female (pistillate) calyx and is not necessarily fertile...
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OK PPL! forget about the crap i've been weaving around!
i did my homework better this time and found out my observations where FAR from the truth!
miracles of science happen!
read these articles!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=58992
i did my homework better this time and found out my observations where FAR from the truth!
miracles of science happen!
read these articles!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=58992
