H3ad goes Coco

[robertmarley]

Just a little note to chime in to the arguement.

This was my first coco run, all advice taken from this thread becuase I switched over from dwc(gh lucas nutes). When I first switched to 12/12 some had been rooted in dixie cups others in half gal pots and at first the ones with more root took off but in the end they all came out about the same size.. watering daily. When I left for a few days about halfway through flowering they never got watered and thats when nute burn showed up and a little bit of yellowing.. flushed but still held some burn all the way through.
(next time when I go on vaca/leave got auto watering setup and will flush while gone)

I would love for someone to challenge this method.. the ones I leave in veg go dry most of the time before they get rewatered and they seem to look great, but I use 1/3 strength..

would do a side by side comparison if someone could set up a reasonable watering schedule suing this same formula...


all for the sake of not using so much water... hate mixing as often as i do.. (32 gal res)

 

[robertmarley]

I wish I could get the crouton sized loose coco pieces

Why is that? these are available locally to me didnt know waht to think of them

 

[chimae]

h3ad, do you know why cannastats nutrient calculator and gh floracalc, give different nutrient profiles with the same 6/9 formula?

Its bugging me coz i`ve got european gh (ghe) flora series and the formula is different. So basically im trying to get a nutrient profile similar to yours, using my products. But im not sure wich calculator will be more reliable.

Here is the nutrient profile i will probably be using, its calculated with ghe's floracalc:

5ml softwater micro for 3l of distilled water.
8ml bloom

N P K Ca Mg S Fe Mn Zn Cu B Mo Co
103 81 123 91 53 60 2.7 1.1 0.4 0.3 0.2 0.06 0.02
Total PPM: 514 ---EC(+/-): 1.363 mS/cm.


got a bit more P and K in the mix and a bit less mg. hope that bit extra k does not screw up the cation exchange giving me N or mg deficencies. there is just a bit more ppms than in yours, hope that doesnt give me salt buildups on the longrun either.

what do you think of this profile?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

@Robertmarley- more efficient oxygenation of the root zone.

@chimae- The difference in in the method of calculation, methinks... The GH calc figures specific gravity better, it appears, though a slight difference in concentration of a few ppm is not that big of a deal... As long as the ratios of the elements to each other are "within parameters" concentration can be adjusted by diluting with more or less water... Your ratios look pretty good, concentration may be slightly higher than I like but you'll be able to adjust that easily according to the plant's needs...

 

[chimae]

thanks for the quick reply!

yeah i can just drop in a little more water once the feeding solution is done to lower a little the ec.... already doing that now that they are just seedlings.

 

[rooted]

hilbie, you are missing the point, a very basic concept.

read this and re-read it until you finally understand

it does not matter how much water is present, as long as oxygen is available to the roots.

 

[robertmarley]

@Robertmarley- more efficient oxygenation of the root zone.

@...

http://www.sunshinehydro.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=280_69&products_id=17398

Would you run it straight or as a mix?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

mix

 

[chemsteady]

quick question...

quick question...

h3ad, every now and again, ill lose a seedling to dampening off, and im guessing part of this has to do with the coco being really moist all the time.

whats your standard watering regiment, with seedlings in the first week or two?
do you go half strength as soon as the first leaves appear?
do you use a seedling mat, and if so, when do you discontinue its use?

thanks h3ad

ps. got that casey cut back! shes going into mom status..

 

[DonkDBZ]

Can someone please help me figure something out with this?

I don't have GH flora micro and bloom. I am trying to figure out if I have something that I can use in place of those to get the same nutrient profile.

I have: Fox Farms Grow Big, Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom. I also have their Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz and Cha Ching. Pure Blend Pro Grow and Bloom, Silica Blast, Sweet, Cal Mag+ and their Liquid Karma. I also have Roots Organics Bloom and Trinity. Last but not least I have Nitrozime and Maxicrop.

So does anyone know if I can use any of those to create the same nutrient profile that H3AD is using for this? If not, I guess I'll be needing to buy some more nutrients. If I do end up having to buy more nutrients, should I just go with some Coco specific nutrients? H3AD said in the beginning of this thread that he only used GH flora micro and bloom because he already had it on hand. So I'm just wondering if I would be better off getting Coco specific nutrients?

Thanks for the help.

Using the calculator from the angelfire set you can make your own head or lucas with anything.

I am testing it out right now with good results
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=144723

here is a quote I saw from Canna
The coco is like a sponge in that it will only hold so much water and then it releases the excess and lets it drain.

 

[hilbie]

hilbie, you are missing the point, a very basic concept.

read this and re-read it until you finally understand

it does not matter how much water is present, as long as oxygen is available to the roots.

no youve missed the point i made, read what ive re-stated plenty already, proper size container or overwatering is a def problem before plants have sufficent root structure simply because u smother the undeveloped root mass around wet damp oxygen void coco, theres no roots to metabolize it, it just sits there, now if your in small containers fine, but if your starting out in big pots this will stifle n choke your girls, maybe u havent tried to start a seedling in a gallon of coco before? and just assume u know coco more then u do i dont know, or maybe u somehow think hammering a large pot with water and makeing extra coco wet five inches away from the roots brings them more air u got me-

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

agree with most things in this post except the need to water every day or that more waterings make plants grow faster, completely wrong in my expirence, early on u need to let coco dry out or your going to rot your roots, of course this depends on your container size , but let me say that seedlings in beer cups is too much coco and youll have probs unless u have high temps, i was just educated days ago

Well...

im running this without filtering my water, ph tested my nutes and their at about 6, i have ph drops so exactly i cant tell,

my feeding schedule is feed them untill there full then just add water without run off so as the keep nutrients in solution in the medium.

I think I found the problem...
You come into the thread to disagree, and you've not done things properly to begin with... Everyone who has done it properly, gets similar results... Perhaps the fault lies not in the operation, but in the operator.

 

[hilbie]

thx for the formula, my plans are growing fantastic, much like my last run i did were i had no problems and ran 8ml floranovabloom, the only problem i had this run was when i started my seeds with rapid rooters that i hadnt used from over the summer, even had a seed mold in them before it sprouted. theres plenty of forums were people got the let it dry out advice and the success that followed, no body is holding there breath over what u and you alone do. i wasnt responding to you on my last post, but u felt u needed to take it personally, so here we are with are luv afair, you passiontely unable to let go of the fact that only if people do it just like u can u talk n teach them, well some people might want to start in a bigger pot then two inches, and then they need to back of the water and can thank me or about twenty others that say the same thing on other threads.

""he who has character has nothing to prove''

lao tze-

or at the zen school of grateful ''before enlightenment with coco water all the time, after enlightenment with coco after u realized it isnt always good to overwater, still overwater'''

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

lol...
Or "only a dumbass continues to use the misnomer 'overwatering'..."

I do NOT overwater... Not one single plant in my garden has ever gotten too much water... Even the ones I've grown with WATER as the medium...

I'll keep watering frequently, when I need my plants to slow down I'll follow your method...

You're funny in your stubborn clinging to your ignorance.... But what else to expect from a troll who is not here to learn only to stir shit...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Kiteo, his eyes closed.
Chenza at court. The court of silence.
Kiazi's children, their faces wet.
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh.

 

[hilbie]

no bodys talking about u or your garden, u understand this now? thats insult number 4 or is 5 now? and that missunderstanding 11 or is it 12?

please dont answer me..its retorical-

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

no bodys talking about u or your garden, u understand this now? thats insult number 4 or is 5 now? and that missunderstanding 11 or is it 12?

please dont answer me..its retorical-

Yes you have been talking about me, my garden, and my methods... Have been begining with the post where you disagreed with my statements about controlling growth speed with watering frequency... and ending with this smart assery:

or at the zen school of grateful ''before enlightenment with coco water all the time, after enlightenment with coco after u realized it isnt always good to overwater, still overwater'''

I'm glad you can count insults... I've bequeathed you no epithet you did not earn... Misunderstandings you have more problem with... There has only really been one long continuous misunderstanding and it has been yours...

Good Day, happy trolling

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

h3ad, every now and again, ill lose a seedling to dampening off, and im guessing part of this has to do with the coco being really moist all the time.

whats your standard watering regiment, with seedlings in the first week or two?
do you go half strength as soon as the first leaves appear?
do you use a seedling mat, and if so, when do you discontinue its use?

thanks h3ad

ps. got that casey cut back! shes going into mom status..

I use physan to make sure sterile seedlings go into sterile coco.
Once they are up with seed leaves open gathering light,
I water them daily with pH 6 water for a week, then go to weak nute... when the seed leaves start to yellow I start to increase food...
I have never used a mat, but the room is climate controlled...

One other thing I do, that may be merely superstition but seems to hold true anecdotally, is to germ seeds only during a waxing moon... they seem healthier to me, but I have no hard data proving so...

SEEDS/SEEDLINGS/CUT FLOWERS

Cut Flowers in containers, tubes, and decorative vases - Bacterial Stem Plugging.
To eliminate stem plugging (which restricts uptake of water) and to control bacteria and fungi (which create ethylene gas, a cause of petal drop), flower spikes should be hardened by keeping the stems in PHYSAN 20 solution during harvesting, storage and shipping.
USE: 1 teaspoon of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.



Plant Cuttings - Begonia, Chrysanthemum, Fuchsia, and Geranium.
For controlling Crown Gall, Gray Mold Leaf Spots, and Powdery Mildew, soak completely immersed cuttings 2-5 minutes in 1-1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water. Plant in compost completely saturated in PHYSAN 20 solution.
USE: 1-1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.



Seeds and Seedlings - Damping Off
Treat seeds and seedlings by soaking in a solution of 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water for 5 minutes. Fill the flask containing the seed or seedlings with enough PHYSAN 20 solution to completely cover the seeds/seedlings. Drain the PHYSAN 20 solution off the seeds/seedlings before planting. Use a fresh solution of PHYSAN 20 for each flask.



Seedlings - Damping Off (ornamental plants only)
Make a solution of 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water. Soak seedlings in PHYSAN 20 for 5 minutes. Use a soak container large enough to completely immerse one flask of seedlings at a time. Change the solution daily or more often if solution becomes visibly dirty.
If a garden soil is used for planting seedlings, completely saturate the soil in PHYSAN 20. Place the soil in a pot or tray and add enough PHYSAN 20 solution to completely cover the soil. Let the solution drain through the soil or pour off excess.
USE: 1 1/2 teaspoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.



PHYSAN 20 solution is effective in stopping the spread of damping off when sprayed on seedlings. Spray seedlings so that all surfaces are thoroughly wet.
USE: 2 tablespoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 3 gallons of water of 2 tsp. PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 1 gallon of water.



Seedlings - Downy Mildew (Ornamental Plants only)
Most common on seedlings. The fungus sporulates on the lower surface of leaves as a white, sparse downy growth. The disease can cause the death of aerial plant parts. Spray seedlings so that all surfaces are thoroughly wet with Physan20 solution at 5-day intervals until under control.
USE: 2 tablespoons of PHYSAN 20 concentrate in 3 gallons of water.

CORROSION AND DAMAGE TO MATERIALS: PHYSAN in use dilutions, will not damage or mar natural rubber, glass, painted or plastic surfaces. It is non-corrosive to all metals in normally used applications for swabbing, mopping and rinsing. PHYSAN is non-flammable and non-explosive.

BACTERICIDAL ACTIVITY: PHYSAN has demonstrated bactericidal or bacteristatic activity against a wide spectrum of bacterial organisms such as:
Agrobacterium tumefaciens Pseudomonas sp.
Enterobacter Agglomerans Erwinia cypripedii
Erwinia carotovora Xanthomonas campestris

FUNGICIDAL ACTIVITY: PHYSAN is effective against a wide variety of fungi that may cause rots, rusts, blights, and mildew.
Botrytis cinerea Gnomonia veneta
Fusarium spp. Rhizoctonia solani
Penicillium digitatum Curvularia sp.
Gliocladium roseum Phythium aphanidermatum
Rhodoturula glutinis Helminthosporium sativum
Ophiobolus graminis Puccinia antirrhini
Ceratocystis ulmi Sclerotinia homeocarpa

VIRUCIDAL ACTIVITY: PHYSAN has been tested and proven to be effective in controlling Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV) on hard surfaces and tobacco leaves. TMV is the most stable of the viruses which are pathogenic to plants. PHYSAN’s ability to control TMV may indicate that it would be a good product to control other viruses.

PHYTOTOXICITY: PHYSAN generally is not phytotoxic to plants at concentrations below 400 ppm (1/4 ounce per gallon of water). However, this can vary depending on the type of plant and its stage of growth.

 

[dodo5678]

H3ad- I'd first like to start off thanking you for all you have provided to this community. Your thread on "Super Cheap Mass Cloner" has been invaluable to me. I've always sucked at cloning and was more around a 100% failure rate until I gave your cloner a go. I'm happy to say that I recently hit 100% success on my first attempt using it. Using no cloning gels, the mother was 2 weeks in flower and wasn't even in good form. yAy me

I've also gotten a kick out of reading the threads in your signature including this one and I'm really looking forward to applying your formula to my next grow with my autopot setup. All your teachings have provided me a great deal of help and understanding of plants in general.

I noticed you don't use CO2 or make much mention of it's use in your garden from what I've read so far. Is there a particular reason you don't use CO2? and would you supplement it if you lived around a mile and a half above sea level?

Bonus question: I believe you mentioned in this thread that you recently switched to using well water. I'm in the same boat and recently started running it through RO, are you using RO water too?, if so have you had to re-introduce the Epsom salts or add cal-mag to the formula even though some is already being provided by the gh micro?

Thanks again for your time. Merry

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

H3ad- I'd first like to start off thanking you for all you have provided to this community. Your thread on "Super Cheap Mass Cloner" has been invaluable to me. I've always sucked at cloning and was more around a 100% failure rate until I gave your cloner a go. I'm happy to say that I recently hit 100% success on my first attempt using it. Using no cloning gels, the mother was 2 weeks in flower and wasn't even in good form. yAy me

I've also gotten a kick out of reading the threads in your signature including this one and I'm really looking forward to applying your formula to my next grow with my autopot setup. All your teachings have provided me a great deal of help and understanding of plants in general.

I noticed you don't use CO2 or make much mention of it's use in your garden from what I've read so far. Is there a particular reason you don't use CO2? and would you supplement it if you lived around a mile and a half above sea level?

Bonus question: I believe you mentioned in this thread that you recently switched to using well water. I'm in the same boat and recently started running it through RO, are you using RO water too?, if so have you had to re-introduce the Epsom salts or add cal-mag to the formula even though some is already being provided by the gh micro?

Thanks again for your time. Merry

Glad the cloner changed your luck

I may supplement CO2 in a high altitude situation, I have never really bothered doing the experimentation of adding CO2 since there is really no cheap effective inconspicuous CO2 method available to me which does not add quite a bit of heat to me rooms... I have always relied on air movement and exchange to ensure enough molecules bump into stomata...

as far as the well water goes...

So far I have only used 6/9 and corrected the pH...
Went from adding 10 ml/reservoir pHup at the old place to adding 10ml/reservoir pHdown to the well water...

it's all rock-n-roll so far in V... we'll see how Flower looks soon...