What's new

CO2 generation and sealed rooms and CO

bs0

Active member
Over the past 48 hours I have had some interesting experiences, and I'd like to offer a timeline progression and ask for some opinion.

Lights are air cooled @ 400cfm. Room previously vented thru the lights to outside. There is an intake from the outside that is temperature controlled. The intake is pretty low CFM, probably 50-70cfm.

I was having temp issues because I was venting my room thru the lights and blowing the CO2 out which made the burner run too much. At 3:00pm I re-ventelated the intake from the light cooling to be a closed loop. Within 20 minutes the temp had dropped from 89-90 to 85ish. The outside intake is running constantly still, but there is now effectively no room exhaust.

At 7:00 a friend had come to visit and we went into the room. Temps were stable @ 85, humidity had climbed, co2 ppm had mostly stabilized. At this point we had not smoked or had anything to drink. After about 10-15min in the room I realized that I had become dizzy. I asked my friend and he verified. Also we both agreed that our heart felt 'funny'. We immediately left the room. My first guess was CO. I tried to relocate my CO detector from just outside the room to inside the room while maintaining voice communication with friend. After less than a minute I felt more dizzy and somewhat drunk. Again I left the room (with the detector), plugged the detector in on the main floor and now left the house. Waited outside to hear if detector would alert. There was no alert. I now took several deep breaths of outside air and went to disconnect the gen-1. After this point we walked around the block to get fresh air, came back, opened all windows on house and door on room and left. Feelings of lightheadedness continued for at least 2 more hours.

I stayed at the friend's house and came back 14 hours later. Driving I felt drunk still (yet to smoke or have a drink). I came back with 3 more CO detectors of all different brands and models. None ever sounded anyplace in house. The documentation for the gen-1 said 'if you use this device in a closed area you may wish to consider a co detector'. I had the detector just outside the room. The detector never sounded.

At the time of the 'symptoms':
The temp on the room was 85, the co2 PPM was controlled to overshoot and was maxing out at 1700. There was a noticible smell of propane. The humidity was 40%.

What did I experience? I have heard of other people using burners in 'sealed rooms' and my room wasn't even really sealed. It just did not have an active exhaust. I had outside air being blown into the room constantly. I *felt* like my life was at risk but after I first left the room I looked up CO effects and symptoms so it's possible that my mind was influencing what I was thinking. Was the timeline I cited possible to develop a toxic CO buildup? No alarms ever sounded. Any help here is *very very greatly* appreciated.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Could be the CO2?? Don't really know.

I got a CO (not CO2) detector for $30 at Home Depot. Leaks maybe?
 
Last edited:

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
You might just be really sensitive to CO2, or there is a propane leak. Mix up some slightly soapy water in a spray bottle and spray all connections for leaks.
 

mrwags

********* Female Seeds
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Could be CO .What color was flame? If it was any color than blue it is not burning clean.
You should'nt be smelling propane .I use a different style burner (water cooled)but I never smell propane.Propane leak?
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/propane/health_pro.html

I say leak as well thats why the detectors didn't go off and maybe it was a good thing you didn't smoke yet. Not trying to make fun but could have been your last considering you just described the feeling of pure propane in the air imo.



BE SAFE PLEASE
Mr.Wags
 

GrowerGoneWild

Active member
Veteran
Interesting..

I thought all compressed fuel gasses were spiked with mercaptan.? I do believe propane is one of them. The fact that you smell it indicates a leak.

Well seeing how you used multiple CO detectors, its more likely that CO is not the problem.
Did you test all the detectors?.. Mine has a little test button on the front.

So.. lets look at the MSDS for propane.

http://www.npga.org/files/public/Tech_Bulletin_NPGA_210-96.pdf

Its possible that propane in higher ammounts can cause dizzyness.


So... I would check for propane gas leaks.
Verify proper flame and burner operation.

Who knows it might have been a combination of high CO2 concentration and a propane leak, neither would have set off the CO monitor.

Just a thought.

Be safe.


Have to add this..

Looks like mercaptan may oxidize in the air. and the odor intensity may fade and not all
people can smell mercaptan the same way, so just a faint smell may not indicate the level
of propane in the house.
 

bs0

Active member
I followed the directions with the installation guide and sprayed all the connections when I set up the burner, and the smell of propane was very very faint. Faint like you smell it initially for a second then are used to it. I can't tell from the msds if the smell is eliminated once burned? "warning odor may not provide adequete warning of hazardous conditions" I really did check all connections upon installation because I didn't want to fuck around with fire, so how much could possibly leak in 4 hours? I never even considered a propane leak, I assumed the smell was consistant with propane use.

I can set it all up out in my garage, where it is now, and put a co detector next to it. If I could still smell the 'propane' smell would it still be dangerous? The smell I really think was more like the smell of a propane grill. I'm pretty close to just chalking it up a loss and try to see if I can find a trade for tanked co2. Invisible gasses make me too uneasy.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Active member
Veteran
I can set it all up out in my garage, where it is now, and put a co detector next to it. If I could still smell the 'propane' smell would it still be dangerous? The smell I really think was more like the smell of a propane grill. I'm pretty close to just chalking it up a loss and try to see if I can find a trade for tanked co2. Invisible gasses make me too uneasy.

The thing about mercaptan is that a very small ammount is detectable by smell, its hard to guess the ammount in the air from just smell.

The ONLY thing I can suggest is to use a portable gas detector.

So with your CO detectors we can pretty much rule out CO as a problem.

However we cannot determine.

-Propane in the air
-Level of Oxygen in the air.

So.. propane is in question.. so either "borrow" a gas detector that will measure the level of gas thats in the air.

Here's one possibility.

Honeywell HGD1000 eZsense Flammable Gas Detector

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.aspsku=211275512&listingid=65773231

The only thing we are not measuring is O2 levels.

Incomplete combustion will trip a CO alarm and the flame will look wrong. So there must be enough O2.

So the shortcut way is to borrow a flammable gas detector...

The more correct way is to measure flammable gas and 02 levels.

Its possible to borrow a gas monitor from somebody that works in confined spaces (people that weld on the inside of tanks.. etc..)

Good luck to you.

BTW what kind of CO2 generator are you using? Greenair? Sentinel?..etc?
 
S

sparkjumper

Must be sensitivity because I spend at least two hours in my flowerroom twice a week at 1500-1700PPM and have never felt lightheaded or anything
 

bs0

Active member
Where I have uncertainty about the CO is that I never managed to get an alarm into the room before leaving and venting the whole house. Would the monitor I had 10 ft from the door have triggered? Thanks a lot for the help so far.
 

hydr1

Member
I run natural gas Co2 at 85-90 F and I get dizzy sometimes...not as much as before but the fisrt few times I felt drunk and had a headach and racing heart.

it sounds liek you have a natural gas model gen-1 but are using the liquid propane attatchment. The burners are diff for natural gas and propane...if the flame isnt burning a clean blue flame and you see flickers of orange or yellow your generating carbon monoxide
 

bs0

Active member
I run natural gas Co2 at 85-90 F and I get dizzy sometimes...not as much as before but the fisrt few times I felt drunk and had a headach and racing heart.

it sounds liek you have a natural gas model gen-1 but are using the liquid propane attatchment. The burners are diff for natural gas and propane...if the flame isnt burning a clean blue flame and you see flickers of orange or yellow your generating carbon monoxide

Your description is EXACTLY what I experienced. I have the propane model gen-1. Do you have a CO detector in the room? Is your room sealed?
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top