Topping Question

[Young Pumpkin]

OK, I'm a bit old school here, real old school, so bear with me. Since the early days of the Mel and Ed Growers Guide (30+ years ago) 1 thing I've kept in mind is waiting at least 2 weeks after topping before flowering. Used this theory for years (sativas). Got into clones (indica/sativa) and this breed or type seemed to do well with just 1 week. Name of type??? I might could have told you 10 or 12 years ago, but not now.

Whats got my curiosity is something I saw on You Tube, of all places. A guy was starting flowering on 4 plants. At 1 week into bloom he topped the smallest part he could get from the plant. WTF? I took 4 plants at about 15 inches, set them to flower and topped 1 plant just like his tute. I stuck with 1 in case this idea bombed on what I grow. Well at 5 weeks I'm thinking there might be something to this.

My control plants (single stem), as expected, have doubled in height. My topped plant is about 8 inches shorter. My only dis-advantage is my light, of course, is a bit higher for the taller control plants. (1 of 2, 400w HPS) I've got 5 weeks to go but I am pleasantly surprised on this and can't wait for the end. I'll take the 3 and get an average but wow, what a "top knot" of buds on this girl.

So....has anyone else done this? Does this method have a name? Should I throw my method of topping out the window? Has an old dog learned a new trick? If some one had told me or I just saw it in print I would have dismissed it.

Go to you tube, search on "chronic" you'll find him on the first page. He has a completes set of vids as a tute and you'll want to find tute 8 of 9 (about half way into the vid) His tag line is "I grow Chronic"

I have been outta the loop for many, many years. I only leave my cave/world for food, guitar strings, and computer parts. I'm feeling really old and out dated. (Wait, I am old and out dated). I have heard Nixon resigned tho. Woof.

 

[jonezin]

Are you talking about FIM (fuck I missed)?

I just tried it for the first time. I don't know if I did it right yet or not. We'll see. I had a hard time telling where to cut it. I actually did it twice because the first time I know I didn't cut enough off. The only way I've ever topped is the "old school" way that I think you're talking about that you've always done. "Fimming" is the only way I;ve heard of where you take the least possible amount off. But I don't know if that's what you're talking about. I didn't go check out the video you mentioned.

 

[stillsmokin843]

yea it sounds like that is what he saw an i can tell ya it works great for me put big knots for buds. i have also used it on vegging plants to make more shoots or bushier moms. that is a qreat pic posted to show how its done jsut try to cut about 70 or 80 % of that top off and youll be fine good luck guys

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Interesting, I've just heard of that recently too. Was gonna ask but I rambled enuff. But to trim 1 week after 12/12 is what blows my mind. Thought once I took a cutting then went right to 12/12 (I cloned the wrong plant) and that branch did nothing really on the remaining 3 or 4 nodes. Maybe I screwed up more than I thought on that one. But yeah, I try to get to about 12 inches, top, then Veg for 7-10 more days depending. Anymore than 15 days and I can usually take another clone and wait some more. Thanx for the reply, I did take the minimum in this case. The pics were a nice bonus. Thanx.....

SS843, so this makes a bushier mom than the usual 2-3 inches off??? Wow. I did the crush and bend on 2 stems to see if I would get a similar "knot" at that point so we'll see. "Super Cropping" I think. Top is still there just "bent" at 90 degrees. Time will tell....

Thanx every one.......

 

[stillsmokin843]

when ya do that ya get more shoots persay so hince a bushier pant seems to work for me but im still playing with the idea. i tried super cropping on some plant in a ebb and grow system that were getting to tall but could really tell a differance, prob because i let them veg to long and had some problems litle bit of root bound and some root rot. so lost a few.

 

[AKDrifter]

This is a very interesting thread, I am hoping some more people who have tried this chime in very soon.

I always top my plants, I definitely prefer the more bushy compact growth, and my area is more suited to this type of plants. I usually veg/top then carry on with veg until they reach about 12" before going to 12/12.

I just started 20 plants, (10 fem and 10 reg) four strains, and had about two weeks from seed under the t5, then had to throw them under the 600w hps and start 12/12 due to time limitations on my grow. I will have just enough time to flower and dry before leaving town.

This FIM during flower may be just the ticket for me. Like I said they have been under the HPS and 12/12 for two days now so there is no flower starting just yet. They will be just to the point where I usually top in the next few days and I may try to FIM and see how she goes.

I run about one grow a year, strictly for personal use, and my grow will last me all year. With 6-8 plants under a 400w and an average of 12z-1lb yeild I am good. this grow will probably be 15 plants once the males are culled. Plus I upgraded to a 600w this run, so I will be ok if this FIM during flower hurts yeild a tad.

I may test on one or two per strain and see how she goes. SS WR AND AK47, Paradise Whiteberry, and GHS Kings Kush. If I take the plunge I will keep updating with results as they progress, but I like the sound of this. My only worry is that it may slow down the time to full maturity on my bud, so I may skip it on the WR since 70 days is the usual time for this strain and that is my limit, they will be chopped at 70 or less no matter what. The rest are 55-60is day strains so they should be good even if this slows them by a week or so.

 

[Young Pumpkin]

From what I've seen on mine at 6 weeks now, (I plan on going to 10 possibly) I'm guessing that the yield wont be any less than my control plants. Interesting to me is my FIM is 8 inches shorter than the rest. This may be handy as I'm switching to hydro and those 5 gallon buckets are way taller than the pots I use for soil. So shorter plant, same or more yield this may open some possibilities but what I've done is FIM 1 week into flower. I've taken 1 more and super cropped 2 stems on it at 1 week flowering to see what happens there. To me the wild part is doing it at 1 week into 12/12. Now to apply this to a single stem at 1 week with a control plant or 2 and see what happens. Might be interesting, you get the top knot of buds and still have the main stem intact.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Just my 2 pfennigs...
I have tried it all at one point or another. I always seem to go back to tying the plants down and controlling the canopy that way. If you have time and space to let a top or a FIM grow recoup, then it works pretty good. But, when timing is important I hate to cut bud sites off at all. It always stunts the growth to a certain extent, and I have never really liked doing any of it at or into flower.
Supercropping works well, and they seem to take off after they heal(I think auxins abound in a hurt branch), but they need to heal.
lst gives you the results without the delay.

(I always go back to dirt too )

 

[AKDrifter]

I can deal with 8" shorter growth and some extra tops. I think tonight I will take a look at things and make a decision. I think this early in flower it will not stunt the flowering process much, not like a full topping of the plant.

Tying them down is always an option as well, but requires me to climb around a very crowded space. Watering is already a challenge, but I may also try a little of that this run.

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Apologies.........

Apologies.........

My bad, sorry........
If anyone went to look at the You Tube Vid, it was part 9, again apologies to all......

HD, I agree in large part. Ive always topped 1-2 weeks before 12/12. (30 years of growing here). Thats what floors me about this method. I wouldn't have thought about it or tried it if I hadn't of seen the vid. And with any method that gets the plant higher from the ground than a simple pot (or lower ceiling like me) this maybe an advantage. But if the yield is the same or better he may be on to something.

AKD, I just never got the hang of tying down and I don't think super cropping is working out because the plants are short and short inter-node length. But I'm with ya on the "hard to get around" to do stuff as I do a perpetual grow. Finally getting to where the rotation is starting to work.

Anyway, I'm gonna take 'em at 8, getting very anxious to see any weight difference there might be. But visually my bet is on the FIM plant, not the control group. I just did 3 more single stem at 7 days, and will do 2 other branched plants when they hit 7. I've done 2 others normally branched on 3 or 4 stems each at 3 & 4 wks that are shaping up well.

The rotation I work is what inspired this. As my clone/veg space is small and 1 in the same. My clone rate varies and it just happened I didn't have time to top these 4 normally put something had to be put in bloom that week end. Then remembering the vid I thought if 1 doesn't work I can deal with that. So it was sorta by accident that I had enough (and not topped too) So throwing caution to the wind I snipped. All four are short (24 inches) and in soil so I'm not expecting any great weight. I'm gradually moving to DWC hydro and now I wish I had done the 2 of 3 and I could've had a control plant. I will try to plan this once more because whatever the results a 2nd effort would help to confirm the first but these 3 are DWC. I like to top at 10-12 inches Then veg some more before budding for a taller plant. I try to shoot for 2 or 3 go to bloom each weekend but plant age and height has varied a bit.

I'll do my best to keep the thread informed. This could be good interesting.

 

[stillsmokin843]

im glad this thred got started im bar far no expert but a good grower showed me the trick and it puts big knots of bud on my plants. i left a couple un fimmed for comparison. i slways assumed that it might stunt it a lil at first but didnt really notice any big difference this run with stress. didnt really think it would matter on longer or shorter strains but then again i never really thought about it.hmmm i was going to throw so 70 day strains next run and see i guess. thanks for all the guys trying and posting results

 

[Young Pumpkin]

I haven't forgot.....yet

I haven't forgot.....yet

Just a note, at 7 weeks and a day or 2. I'm still watching closely. The 1 plant has a small fist at the top. The 3 controls are shaping up nice too. Before anyone asks, no, I don't have a camera, wish I did but its not gonna happen anytime in the near future, sorry.

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Well we are at 8 weeks now and gonna run to 9. If any one is watching I'm gonna have some results soon........

 

[Young Pumpkin]

9 weeks and they are down, will have some results in a few days.

 

[Standaman]

In my tent i am growing 4 plants under a SCROG they where topped and Supercropped and 1 plant was fimmed just to see if i could do it.

The other side also has 4 plants and these are untopped and just being left to grow as they are.

So far the SCROG side is bushy as hell a full M2 of canopy the other side is the same in height maybe a little taller but not even remotely as bushy as the SCROG but it's early days week 1 12/12.

Lastnight i really wanted to top and SCROG the other side too but its too late now

Just my input

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Fer what its worth....

Fer what its worth....

Well the results are in. 1 thing I did want to do and forgot was to measure how tall they were before cutting. Oh well, don't think they grew a whole lot from a previous post I made. The topped 1 made 26g. the 3 controls averaged 22g each. Interesting but not conclusive or scientific by any means. Would taller plants had more of difference, even percentage wise??? A 4g difference being about a 15% increase??? Someone check my math, please.

Couple-o-thoughts tho....I do a rotating grow, so the lights were at a height for the tallest plants. I did try to keep the "1" elevated when I could. Also as plants got moved in and out I can't say that everything got "equal" light especially near the end. These 4 were all in soil-less but fed equally. I wonder tho if I could have lit the "1" closer to the light like the other 3 it might have been better. Those 3 were the tallest of all or at least as tall as any of the rest so the lights were set for them. (2 400w HPS, new bulbs in both recently).

Also, open up a new tab and Google the whole phrase "Fuck I Missed" in the first 20 or so results and you'll see a different take other than what has been posted in these forums. The word "missed" is very important here. Some examples here (and what I did per the video) show the smallest possible top being removed. Thats not missing IMO. I still got between the nodes as normal just at the smallest one possible. Other examples show missing as I originally understood it. Essentially getting about 75% of the top where he intended to get between the nodes, hence the "missing" part of the phrase. Good read(s) if you wanna search it out. Also near the top of the threads someone mentions topping at 3 weeks into flower. Don't think I wanna try it that late but still its a thought.

My biggest conclusion on my effort was this might be a great way to control how tall the plant gets if you are short on space (no pun intended) Ex: If you have 48" (and your plant doubles during flower) you would veg til 24" the flower and things work out near perfect. Cool. Or with this (bear with my non-existent math skills) you could grow to 30" (going with roughly a 50% observed increase) then bloom to 45". One variable that comes to mind is what you do about your lower branches. In my "test" I left everything on tho normally I would trim off the lowest for the usual reasons like I think most folks do.

After thoughts: It seems logical the vid guy did it for height reasons. He seemed very precise in how tall they got before 12/12 and specifically mentioned his flower light was 18" above his plants. From the way he built his 2 small rooms I don't think he left his self a way to raise the lites, at least not very easily. Check the earlier post on how to find it as I do think its worth looking at IMO.

For myself I am trying to increase both my clone/veg room size and go for a bigger plant and less #s. Only by fate/accident/luck did I have 4 single stem plants at 1 time as I do believe in topping almost always. Balancing a rotating grow can be interesting and I hate to see my flower lights shining on floor space when there should be something/anything in that empty spot(s). I also am waiting on some normal plants to come in that have been "topped" to come in but nothing really equal to do a comparison there. In conclusion I don't think we can discount this as a worthless idea but it has been darn interesting. Maybe someone can expand on this in the future. Its been an interesting idea (to me) fer sure. Now back to news.....

 

[420kid]

this is a wonderful thread im surprised more people didnt comment

 

[Matanuskan Flo]

Pictures pleeeez.

Pictures pleeeez.

hello,

I could not control myself. I always FIM & never top, why have 2 when you can have 8??? That is, 8 with some LST. I usually supercrop as well, or pinch the stalk until I hear the cell wall snap on either fingertip. I usually supercrop first at around 2 weeks veg, then I FIM a few days later. Sometimes, I FIM those other tops too. Just depends on the situation. I am such a dick for not posting pictures either!! haha

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Wish I Had A Camera .....

Wish I Had A Camera .....

But any thing like that is a long ways off...hehehe