Coco run off help

[Seed Buyer]

I have some 2 week old Ak clones that are off to a rocky start and I just tested the run off but am not sure how to analyze my findings. The clones are in 5" square pots w/ a 50% Bcuzz coco & 50% chunky perlite. They are being feed Nova grow at 1.4-1.5 ec pH is 6.0. The plants are hand watered drain to waste w/ lots of fun off. The plants are showing signs of ca/mg def or lock out. I just collected the run off and it was 1.8-2.0 ec and a ph of 6.6-6.8. What does this mean? My thinking was the high ec and ph means I have caused a lockout. My plan at this second is to flush heavily w/ Clearex and give them a weaker feed next time say 1.0ec and pH lower to say 5.8. Any thoughts?

 

[aboleth]

Yea man, flush it. Sounds like the medium itself is adding PH and needs to be flushed. I think you are on the right track.

 

[oregon024]

if the plants look good I woudn't worry

 

[Seed Buyer]

They dont look great so I need to nip this in the bud (definite pun intended) before this issue stunts growth and prolongs the veg cycle.

aboleth...how does the medium add to the pH? Thanks

 

[oregon024]

I can help you.What are you checking you ph with.What kind of meter?

 

[Greyskull]

maybe you are hitting them with too much food/water... in my experience with coco growing (dtw & e&f) that will slow them down, especially early. being too damp will slow them down.

before you pump a bunch of water thru them, how often are you feeding/watering them?

 

[Seed Buyer]

Greyskull.....I was hoping you would chime in. I transplanted the cuts and gave them there 1st nutes. It was at least 5-6 days before they were feed again. I like for the coco on the top of the pots to turn that very light brown color and for the pots to get very lite before watering again (as a matter of fact I think coco does better when it gets dry as opposed to what many others on this forum say). When I bend the sides of the pots I can see half way down the 5" pots and there are lots of healthy white roots getting started. Now I am watering every 2-3 days. I am using a 50% coco 50% perlite w/ a bed of perlite at the bottom of the pots for drainage. This is the only strain that gives me problems. I was using House and Garden which I was told has 10%-11% CA so I felt the excess ca was locking something out. I am using the purple 50L sacks of Bcuzz buffered coco. I flushed all the plants last night w/ clearex. My plan was to switch to Nova Grow which has only 4% Ca. I use tap water that has an ec of 0.2 but after speaking w/ my water company that 0.2 ec tap water only has 8ppm of mg and 20 ppm of ca so it is essential like ro water. I don't think I am over watering. The plants leaves are at 45 degree angles and not dropping but there is discoloration mainly at the bottom looking like a mg issue. I was going to flip them at 8" but it looks like they might have to be vegged much bigger to get them 100% before I flip them. I will try to grab some pics.

 

[Greyskull]

maybe 5ml/G cal/mag will do the trick... is the discoloration starting at the bottom (ala N)?
i like 5ml/G cal/mag regardless i always seem to think the plants like it.

you're definately not overwatering haha. thats good!

goodluck dude

 

[Seed Buyer]

By base water is 0.2 ec (granted there is no ca or mg in it) but when I add cal mag at 5ml per gal it jacks the ec to like 0.6 which makes me nervous. Yes the discoloration is at the bottom and middle leaves (granted each plant is only 2 weeks old and has 3-4 sets of leaves). This Ak-47 I have leans more to the sativa side. My 1st thoughts that they were overfeed and might have caused a lock out, but the leaf tips are green and they are not clawing. Do you use "buffered coco"? I am wandering if the coco is holding the mg causing a lockout or if excessive ca is the culprit. I was feeding them at 6.0 would different pH be better? Thanks

 

[Seed Buyer]

Oregon...I use two different high quality pH meters (Blue Lab pH meter and red Hanna meter). They are cleaned and calibrated each week. Pretty sure the meter is not the issue, it is purely user error!

 

[Greyskull]

canna & bcuzz cocos are the ones i like to use...

 

[*mistress*]

how do you know it is calcium or magnesium deficiency?

could be iron or nitrogen...

they can look very similar... also, calcium uptake can be affected by potassium content.
quick cure for mag def may be foilar spray of mg...

w/ mg deficiency, the plant can eat itself up from older to younger leaves - starting from bottom... mottled chlorosis & brown spots on lower leaves... yellow spots in inter-vein areas... high potassium, high calcium, excess ammmonium & low ph - all affect mg's assimilation.

this is why it may move mg from old leaves to young... can correct by mg spray @ 20mg/liter. ph adjusted 6.5-7.0 (foliar feed)...

the ec should not being higher in the run-off, than the input solution... plant should be assimilating electrical charges (cations) from the solution... leaving >active ions in solution...

maybe, adjust input solution to 6.2-6.5ph for more mg assimilation...

enjoy your garden!

 

[Seed Buyer]

I was thinking MG because of the yellowing w/green veins. New growth looks good then it creeps up so I am kind of dismissing an iron issue. I think CA is really easy to diagnose, but I also have "marijuana garden saver" by my name is stitch for a reference. Also, the House & Garden I started w/ has tons of CA so I thought it might have led to a mg lockout. I just started working w/ this AK-47 so I am not sure of what it likes.

 

[Guest 18340]

Greyskull.....I was hoping you would chime in. I transplanted the cuts and gave them there 1st nutes. It was at least 5-6 days before they were feed again. I like for the coco on the top of the pots to turn that very light brown color and for the pots to get very lite before watering again (as a matter of fact I think coco does better when it gets dry as opposed to what many others on this forum say). When I bend the sides of the pots I can see half way down the 5" pots and there are lots of healthy white roots getting started. Now I am watering every 2-3 days. I am using a 50% coco 50% perlite w/ a bed of perlite at the bottom of the pots for drainage. This is the only strain that gives me problems. I was using House and Garden which I was told has 10%-11% CA so I felt the excess ca was locking something out. I am using the purple 50L sacks of Bcuzz buffered coco. I flushed all the plants last night w/ clearex. My plan was to switch to Nova Grow which has only 4% Ca. I use tap water that has an ec of 0.2 but after speaking w/ my water company that 0.2 ec tap water only has 8ppm of mg and 20 ppm of ca so it is essential like ro water. I don't think I am over watering. The plants leaves are at 45 degree angles and not dropping but there is discoloration mainly at the bottom looking like a mg issue. I was going to flip them at 8" but it looks like they might have to be vegged much bigger to get them 100% before I flip them. I will try to grab some pics.

(Assuming you have healthy white roots and not brown slimy ones...)
You need to water/feed them more often. Every 2-3 days will not cut it and you will get the defs you are talking about. think about it, coco holds nothing, so if you dont feed them daily then how can they grow healthy?
You commented on how you keep your coco dry and think thats they better way, yet you're having plant problems
Breaking your balls, but you need to feed/water them more often and not let the coco get so dry.
Don't get hung up on the "over watering" thing, that is DEFINITELY not the issue in your case. And you are not giving it too much CA. All my outdoor plants in coco get watered from my garden hose (300ppm) and fed 1 tsp/gal Maxibloom. Trust me, my mix has A LOT more CA than yours, so thats not your issue either.
Anyway, take my advise or leave it, but imho I think you're slowly starving your plants.
Here's a pic of one of my outdoor plants in coco, fed with the above mentioned recipe. Sometimes I would water her several times a day, with a lot of runoff. She does'nt look over watered to you does she?

 

[Guest 18340]

Oh, and the reason the run off ec is higher than what you put it is because whats coming out is the dried up concentrated nutrients as the fresh nutes works it's way down.
Trying watering/feeding them consistently for a few days and then check run off, I suspect you'll see a difference.

PS, Without seeing pics, everything I said in my two posts is an educated GUESS.

 

[Seed Buyer]

Thanks for your insight. I have been growing in coco for a few yrs and my other strqains seem to dig the drier side of things. However, this new strain I do not know yet so I will start watering daily via ebb & flow (hand watering 450 5" pots is taking its toll on my back). I am vegging under t5's so that is why there is a delay in watering and I am not doing multiple waters a day as of yet. Also, the problems were immediately after I transplanted the healthy robust clones into the 5" pots and gave them their initial transplant feeding. It was while to coco was still very moist problems began.

 

[Guest 18340]

I too veg under t5's, and feed everyday with Rez's 6/9 formula. Never any issues.
So where do you go from here then?

 

[Seed Buyer]

I flushed them heavily w/ Clearex in hopes to undo any lockout. From here I am going to go lite cal mag and nova grow. My base water plus 3ml of cal mag per gallon is 0.3 ec then I am going to add Nova Grow to achieve 1.4ec adjust pH to 6.0-6.2 to try and get more mag. Hand water w/ plenty of run off. Any ideas?

 

[inreplyavalon]

just because one person is not having over watering issues outside certainly doesn't mean another can't inside.
The problems started when you transplanted into 5 inch pots. It seems common for deficiency to happen when transplanting up in coco.
I think i am experiencing something similar and have in the past. It may be from giving them that initial drench. Then waiting for them to dry. Although coco DOES retain some nutrients, its not as much as soil. So while it is drying the coco and the plant are feeding. You did not use a precharged coco i would guess?
I use the bricks and tend to have issues until i get a healthy root system and start feeding daily.

 

[Guest 18340]

just because one person is not having over watering issues outside certainly doesn't mean another can't inside.
The problems started when you transplanted into 5 inch pots. It seems common for deficiency to happen when transplanting up in coco.
I think i am experiencing something similar and have in the past. It may be from giving them that initial drench. Then waiting for them to dry. Although coco DOES retain some nutrients, its not as much as soil. So while it is drying the coco and the plant are feeding. You did not use a precharged coco i would guess?
I use the bricks and tend to have issues until i get a healthy root system and start feeding daily.

FYI, I'm an indoor grower who occasionally grows outside, mainly when i'm "pheno searching" is when i grow outside.
It matters not if my plants are indoors or out, I don't have over watering issues. Just wanted to clear that up.