first attempt at hydro, pH is not my friend!!!

[tjo]

... yeah im back doing/trying this hydro thing, but who knows, soil is looking better and better man, things are taking their sweet time...

hi
im doing my first grow in hydro and im in days 12/12.
i grow years and years in soil.i will NEVER go back.
the dirt is not compare with hydro.
my 6 plants fill the space i use when in soil grows i had
15 plants. dont panic my friend and go on.
also i grow ssh for 2 years...just ssh (haze pheno)mr nice.

and i agree with some folk who say dont use nuts
in clones..i made a bubbler cloner and my clones roots in 5 days.
just ph water.
good luck my friend

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

time for pics

time for pics

well its been more than long overdue for me to post some pics of whats going on, no more long winded posts here they are:

here's the one clone that has rooted through it all, i cal her my bad bitch

the new and improved cloner as it is now

the heater in installed

bubbles, bubbles, bubbles!!!

heres what the cloner used to look like

heres a plant that i cut in half, i was gonna air layer it and replant it in a bigger container but decided to see how it would do in the cloner. the shorter one on the left is the top and the taller one on the right is the bottom

the section where i am keepin the SSH future srpouts. im gonna be takin those out tonight and keep them in a humidity dome set up. theyre no where near ready to pop yet so theyve got some time

and the moms in there lovey oh so wonderful and stable soil homes!!

the plants off to the lower left are pepper plants that are doing quite well despite their not being re-potted yet

KUSHT4TUS- thanks for stoppin by! took care of that pH issue a good while ago, maybe i jsut didn't post it here, but i had the micro and floro parts of the GH series i just went and got the bloom and the pH down so im good now, stay tuned though

tjo- yeah man i know what you mean, but in my last post (that i admit is long winded) i did say that i would forage ahead despite my misguided mishaps. nothing compares to soil but i think that is a premature statement on my part since i havent really given hydro its due. who knows? maybe once i get things squared away i may just stick with it? my SSH is the GHS pheno, but i am thinking of ordering seeds from either DUTCH PASSION, GREEN HOUSE SEEDS or SOMA and MR. NICE, its still in the air, but SOMA and MR. NICE are lookin real strong with me

well thats where i am right now, and things are looking stronger day by day. its been trial and error but its starting to be a real worth while learning lesson

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

well, went to check the pH out of curiosity since the one bad bitch i doing so well, but the other cuts (the larger female i cut into two specifically) didnt seem to be doing so well.

went and checked the pH and it was right back up to 8.0, like i had never even pH'd it down at all!!

i gave the whole container about 2cc of pH down and it went back to between 5-6.

my pH tester is the one that comes with the the smaller pH up/down bottles from GH, BUT i have had that tester liquid for a while, couple years to be exact. in talking to another hydro grower, he was saying that it could be possible that the testing liquid is no good anymore and is giving false pH readings.

with this being a possibility, im gonna change the water out, and pH a fresh batch, no nutes just plain water. hopefully it will give the plants what they need to finally get some roots going.

on a more positive note one of the SSH beans i put in the plugs has sprouted, so of course that's an early for me!! its currently in a cup of soil near some heat with a clear cup as a humidity dome.

someone else posted in the thread about putting a himidity dome over the cloner, im not sure, but with my pH issues, i think i may just go ahead and give it a shot. i have one more container like the cloner, its untouched so i guess that will be what i use as a humidity dome

once again pH is really not my friend during this grow, but i will stay vigilante till the very end

another theory i have is that there may be a reaction with the either the neoprene im using or with the container itself. i guess this is the point when one starts to over think things, but after all this i can see how one can start to.

when youve got all the factors in place and things still arent up to speed all you can do is over think. its as simple as its going to get, all factors are in consideration, so what in the fuck can it be causing the pH to fluctuate so quickly?

i have many theories and especially when things go wrong, the more wrong things go, the more everything that seems to be so simple becomes a factor.

diligence is the word of the day. questions, comments, concerns are all welcome. . .

 

[Ms.Harley]

I never seen anyone use a rr plug in a cloner setup.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

I never seen anyone use a rr plug in a cloner setup.

well i honestly haven't seen it either (and i did mention that in a earlier post somewhere on here) but it has worked at least once.

that "bad bitch" clone i have is the only one so far, but by no measure means that i am trying to do things that way. . ..

oh yeah why talk, here it is

but its more so the exception than the rule

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

THANKS TO ALL. . .

THANKS TO ALL. . .

i finally got a chance to read through bigtokes water chemistry thread and have decided to call it a day on my attempt at hydro.

im posting this on here as an end to this thread but mainly to thank everyone that have posted and given me advice as to what to do and not.

also to thank those that have posted other threads with so much information that had bell after bell ringing in my head.

for those that want to know: reason im calling it a day is, with the various things that have to be taken care of in regards to stabilizing your water in order for it to be a proper medium depends on the water you have to start with, or so i have understood from bigtokes article/sticky.

from what i have been able to deduct from past grows, this current grow, and the facts in the water chemistry thread have me realize that my water situation has me fighting an uphill battle from the beginning. having to watch for pH buffers and having to calibrate and recalibrate, change out, switch/ swap or change, looking into measureing ppm/ec/ph and the lot is gong way beyond the K.I.S.S. METHOD that had me growing fire in the first place.

please be clear im not knocking hydro in any way shape or form, but for me and where i am right now, water wise as opposed to getting into all of the previously mentioned and even looking into an RO unit, is more than i wanted/needed/hoped/wished to bargain for. at this stage of my experience i really dont think its an avenue i should have to travel down if i dont need to.

being able to use water as a growing medium as opposed to being a nutrient carrier is just not something my water chemistry would allow for with any amount of ease at all. and the fact that i do like/ want to travel and need to have that ability is not something hydro would allow me to do in retrospect. with being forgetful for starters and having other things going on while pH is not too forgiving (which, being totally/completely honest, is something i need for sure) or my friend, soil is and always has been tried and true and has never let me down yet.

so once again, thanks to all, and happy holidays to everyone that comes across this thread. for the sake of it, i'll just leave this last post up here for the duration of the year and new years i'll start a proper soil grow diary of the PRINCESS DIESEL and SSH, i also have a dank ass bag seed that i may be able to throw into the mix once/if i can get those cuts back on their feet!!!

to all my HYDRO growers out there i say god bless you for having the ability and patience and the proper water chemistry! lol, to all my ORGANIC SOIL growers out there i ask if you can welcome and old friend back into the fold.

peace

 

[tjo]

im very sorry to hear that.im doing my first try in hydro and
i DONT want to go back even i dont make the first harvest.
believe the growth is amazing and if you have the green thumb
in soil im sure you find it and the hydro way.
dont give up and keep it in your mind.
ro water make the differents.when you see what im talking about
you will remember me..
good luck my friend.

 

[SuperSizeMe]

The time will present itself when it's right for you & hydro bro

Welcome back to Organic Soil!!!

Peace,

SSM

 

[Greenmopho]

Hey man, sorry to hear that. Yea, tap water is a BIG BIG no no, especially in western regions. pH come out over 8.0 and full of salts, buffers, chlorine, flouride, etc. For the most part though, and RO is over kill! For clones, when I don't have a de-chlorinator filter, i just go buy distilled water from the grocery store, 69 cents per gallon. Keep about 5-10 gallons around for your clones, and you are guaranteed to be good, even in your bubble cloner. It comes out at 7.0 pH, neutral, and only 20ppm TDS. RO filters sound great, but they remove everything, including the natural calcium and magnesium in the water, and then you need supplements like CalMag+ to waste more money on to put those minerals back in. The RR plugs should just work on their own under a dome, they are pre-moistened and pH'd! And your "Bad Bitch" looked nice, but with roots like that, I would of transplanted days ago! Just say, keep doin your thing, man!

 

[RockyMountainHi]

I'll not be leaving the rankes of the hydro oriented. - And this is tap water - or as a local business calls it Pure Rocky Mountain Spring water.



Here was my second attempt at hydro - we didn't quite get a gram a watt, but it was close and I had some plants that were culled for hermi flowers and a couple that were culled because of excessive floweing period. (Junk beans) This run with some high brow beans - it should improve somewhat.

I like dirt, and these rockwool plants are schweet! --- I think I'll be trying coco soon.

I have learned, - It's easier to experiment if you have bud in the jar. - I know the horror of seeing half your garden die overnight - and those lessons can cut deep like a dull knife. They suck.

Soil or hydro - I can fuck up either - or both, but as my experience and knowlege have grown, the number and severity of attacks and challanges in my garden have shrunk.

Did you read Rez's thread?

3 ingreedients, and tap water. - If your water is really bad- you may need to go filtered, spring or distilled - usually a mix will work


,

,

,


Appearantly #2 tries harder

 

[Greenmopho]

Whats up Rocky Mtn Hi! I'm in Denver myself right now, although I'm new to the area, I've been told the tap water here is pretty gross, and testing it seems to prove so, but the pH isn't as bad as California. I believe you will always get a better success rate with clones with cleaner water, so anyway you can do it that is cheap and convenient. Chlorine is the real problem, as you know, Chlorine + anything alive = dead, so you have to reduce or remove the chlorine, at least with clones. Leaving your water out and open for 24-48 hrs won't do anything unless you live on the east coast where they just add liquid chlorine to treat the water. Western states tend to use different variations of chlorinated salts, buffers, stabalizers, so the chlorine won't evaporate when its sitting. They change up the formula and combination of salts seasonally, where certain things are added to the water in the dry summer, and others in the winter.

Don't furget the dead prez:

"I don't eat no meat, no dairy, no sweets
Only ripe vegetables, fresh fruit and whole wheat
I'm from the old school, my household smell like soul food, bro
Curried Falafel, barbecued Tofu

No fish though, no candy bars, no cigarettes
Only ganja and fresh-squeezed juice from oranges
Exercising daily to stay healthy
And I rarely drink water out the tap, 'cause it's filthy"

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Hiya Green,,,,

I use tap water - sometime it gets to set and de-chlorinate - sometimes not.

We do have a fairly high mineral content, but the garden still like a healthy dose of cal-mag. Hell if I know!!! I just try to give them what they like and avoid whatever they don't like.

I have a saying - if I can do it, anybody can.
But it also took a few years and a few failures till I caught on.

I use a cheapo aero cloner - with straight tap - works ok, works better with humidity dome. a paper towel over the dome to defuse the light --- and a aquarium heater, - each improvment was a lesson learned.

Wana hear a joke????

I had a hella time getting cloning down - tried SEVERAL methods including rockwool starter plugs, everything failed till I built a cheapo-aero cloner with a heater - it worked. Got 3 of them now. (here's the "funny" part) I was trimming - had some nce shoots,,, I figgure I ought try getting them to root let's slap them into a rockwool plug and see what happens,, - got 6 out of 6.

Now roots grow everywhere.

Denver/Jefferson County seem to have decent water, but it does vary - seems lately it's been a lil higher pH -

If you think this water is rough,,,, go down around Fla and the coast -- - we got it good.

Pretty much.

Nutes - and how they are mixed can fuck you too. Seriously!

I used to aireate everything- not so much any more - just the cloners.

I also use Hugo rockwool cubes in E&F and I have been warned that's a terible way to grow.


I think young growers read all the numbers - then try to grow by those numbers.

pH, TDS/EC, temps. humidity, humus, NPK's -- and to me the numbers are my reference - my plants can't read the meters, but if I water with 6.2 pH and my EC for a 5 gallon mix of nutes usually measures 1.2 - if the plants are happy - that is a set of reading that I can feel good using. If I change nute regiment - those numbers may, or may not be what makes the plant happy.

Get the idea?

It's like learning to water plants correctly - ya can't get to the next level if you don't know the begining level.

Then there are mites. thrips, defective meters, heat waves, old nutes, and a couple of the previous mentioned buggers mixed together.

If ya lead too pure and insolated a lifestyle, you fail to build immunities to enviromental toxins. Ya need to breath those diesel fumes deeply - eat a quarter pounder occasionally otherwise you can blow an artery over a little plutonium in your drinking water.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

tjo- ive been watching your grwo man, and i must say kudos to you, those plants look healthy and awesome, so i am sure the smoke will be the same

Supersizeme- i hope that time does present itself. in some ways hydro does seem to be easier, but for what i am given it aint happenin! lol

Greenmopho- you completely understand where im coming from. and then compile that with what i saw when i left my water bubbling was enough to scare any hydro grower back/change to soil. if the pH didnt fluctuate so frequently i might stick with it, but to pH it to 5-6 and then check it the day after and its at 8.0!!! it was like i wasnt even in there and it blew my god damned mind man!
and its that other stuff in the water that is gonna have me or rather make me go that route of an RO system. no loot or time right now for that

RockyMountainHi- you know what, you may just be right about having something in your jars while you experiment, but i have nothing right now. i have had way to many unnecessary set backs, and that pH thing just seems to be the one that broke whatever back i needed to be intact to move on. and not only the pH but the how and why it could be fluctuating. . . waaaaay toooo much to deal with right now!!!

well as a final stab, i was thinking about taking that "bad bitch" clone i have and putting it in a DWC 5gl set up in with the soil once i get everything set up today. it would be a shame to let it go to waste though and the nutes i have. maybe just slide it over to my bro and let him grow it out. . . .who knows, we'll see

 

[Greenmopho]

Hey Rocky, yea, I actually grew up in Miami, so I know the south florida water pretty well. Its not that bad actually, comes in at a low ph compared to out here, and you can let it sit and evaporate. I've gotten everything I do down pretty well, and yes its a learning experience. I'm in my 3rd different climate growing (Florida, California, Colorado), So take it as it comes!

 

[tjo]

- It's easier to experiment if you have bud in the jar. - I know the horror of seeing half your garden die overnight - and those lessons can cut deep like a dull knife. They suck.

agree my friend..if my jars was empty, im sure,the soil will be
in my room again..i had good harvests and this is gave me the opportunity to experiment in hydro.
also last year i make 1 grow with 8 soil plants and 2 dwc.
same ssh clones.the soil gave me 35g/plant and the dwc give me 75g.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

WELL WELL WELL, LOOKY WHAT WE HAVE HERE!!!

WELL WELL WELL, LOOKY WHAT WE HAVE HERE!!!

decided to go into the cab yesterday and check on things to see what can or is worth putting into soil and what can be tossed and to my surprise. . .

and. . .

and. . .

and. . .

so needless to say im somewhat elated, stoked, cheesin real hard, amped, whatever you wanna call it, but its damned good thing to finally , FINALLY seem some positive results from this whole ordeal!!

with things being what they are, i am assuredly moving back to soil for now BUT with what i think i know, i am going to be doing some side experiments and try out different things with my water.

i wont be going total hydro but i am going to keep my cloner as a means to propagate clones. i had a chance to look at all the other cuts and they seem to have some small white bumps forming all over them as well.
WHAT IVE NOTICED SO FAR:
***some of the cuts i decided to put a slit in the bottom (i would say about a 1/8" -1/4") and the other i left uncut. the cut ones are rooting a lil faster i guess.
***the fresh cut that i put in there hasn't really shown any activity as of yet but after whats happened i guess its only fair that i be a lil more patient.
***i tested the pH and it has held out at 7.5 for the most part. i think ill add a lil more pH down and see if i can get it to a nice 6 or 6.5.

Q: i may not have mentioned it but every time i did go and check the pH i added pH down seeing that it was holding at around 8 and that was done twice back to back. i added pH down each time b4 i closed up shop. this last time (just now) i checked the pH and its still at 7.5 as when i added pH down the last time before leaving it alone. so could it be that you pH down to your water one time and it should be at that pH all the time from then on? OR do you add pH down to your water until it stabilizes out to a certain/specific number that are good uptake conditions?


***man i hope that Q was clear but to help the community out let me state my habits: what i do is i check the pH and if its not where i want it to be i add pH down, swirl the water around to mix it, wait an hour, check the pH and then leave it alone. i leave it alone because when i check it b4 i leave the pH is always where i want it to be and that between 5 -6. now when i left it, the pH was at that same 5 - 6 so i felt safe right? BUT when i came back to check it again after a couple days had passed is was right back up to 8!! and thats what had me so mad, because i thought that once you added the pH down one time that was enough.

ok so after seeing it was back to 8 i added more pH down, swirled it around, waited an hour, came back and bang its at that 5 -6 like i like. i say cool, im good things, are where they need to be BUT i go to check it again after a couple days and its right back up to 8!! so now i dont know WTF to think other than this hydro shit is not for me.

now i just went in there to check it again and BTW its been almost about a week, and i find that not only do i have roots showing but the water is holding at around 7.5 although its closer to the 8. what i have realized is that i have added pH down twice and left alone alot longer this time b4 checking it and its not at 5 -6 but its not at a damned 8 which is a good thing to me.

but thats where i am right now , so question, comments, concerns? all are welcome

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

just checked the fresh cut i put in there about a week (to the day since yesterday) ago and there aren't any roots but i do see some white bumps all over the bottom of the two slits i cut so that's definitely a good sign.

any word about putting humidity domes on bubble cloners? i saw a couple of threads on it, but then they kinda go cold (u know how the comparison grows go around here!! lol)

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

well i decided that it would be a good idea to drop my phone in the toilet at work. the only blessing about it, is that there was nothing in the toilet at the time, thank god!!

phones ok, but as fate would have it, the camera is fucked up so no pics for a while.

the roots are going friggin crazy in there and things are a lot more stable now, as far as pH. the bad bitch is more than ready for its own home the roots are bananas, but i honestly dontn know whether or not its a female. dont know if i explained the story, but i had some bag seeds that i had popped; once i decided to go hydro , i started with the cloner and used one of teh seeds that popped as a tester. i took one and tossed the rest, around that time, the PRINCESS DIESEL mom was ready to take cuts from so i said fuck it and took the cuts and threw them in there too.

eventualy i decided to take a bag seed plant that i was given for breeding purposes to only find out it was a female!!! wanted to airlayer it, but that didnt work so i decided to cut it in half and throw it in the cloner instead. the stem has turned damn near black!! i have since tossed the lower part, but kept the top part with the hope that it would grow some roots and take hold, so im still waiting on that to happen.

another grower grew out the bag seed to harvest and it was some pretty nice smoke!! has a very distinct odor and flavor to it, definitely note worthy.

the SSH that popped is taking its sweet time to do its thing, but its kinda chilly in there so i understand, was thinking about asking a pal of mine to take it from me as to give it a warmer home (wifey and i got into it after she saw it by my side of the bed near the vent, it being in the house was an agreed upon no no, so i couldnt really say anything).

things are going cool so far. i dont know what happened in regards to the pH fluctuations but i put a5gl bucket of water to the side (already bubbled) and have been testing it everyday for the past week now, that along with my rez and the cloner. so far everything is holding @ 6-6.5 range, using the GH series adds about a 1-2 point drop to that so it would get lower but not be in a danger zone and that i can live with.. if it goes right back to 6-6.5 like the cloner then im straight, but if it goes back to friggin 8 after i nute it, then im dead!!!

i also went and bought a 30-60gl water heater for the rez. gonna also get some ducting insulation for the tubing for the grow cab rez, so i should be ok there, gonna dump teh water thats in there now and replace it with the pH'd water in my main rez that i take all my water from.

i'll see about taking some form of pic somehow, im seriously thinking about staying with the hydro grow now that the pH issues seemed to be resolved so stay tuned. . .

 

[SuperSizeMe]

Good luck Homeslice,

Get some pics!!!

Have a great holiday

SSM

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

you know what i realized? and it hit me after i have been testing my water for about a week now, but its only today after testing my water did i realize it. . .

when i first started my hydro project, it was with my cloner. as per someones advice on here, it said that the best way to use the pH down is to add the nutes first and then add the pH down as necessary to get it to the proper pH. and you have to remember i was starting at a pH of 8+!!!

doing that, and then testing the water after "x" amount of days, had me looking at 8.0 again as though i had never added the pH down to begin with.

since that debacle ive had a bucket of water and a rez standing by that i have been testing for a week straight and both of them have tested at exactly 6 - 6.5 every time. even my cloner had tested to 6 - 6.5 for about a week, and thats after i changed the water out, from the first time thinking that the first batch was bad.

what it seems to be is the water, once the nutes are absorbed by teh plants, reverts right back to teh original pH it was before nutes were added. so my problem/mistake started (the first time) because i added the nutes first which brought the pH to 6 -6.5 and THEN i added the pH down to get the water to about 5.5 - 6 which is where i would have wanted it it to stay once the nutes were absorbed. what happend was (the first time with the cloner that had me freaking out) the plants absorbed the nutes which caused the pH to raise again BUT with not enough pH down in it to begin with to properly get the water to a maintained level, it would have seemed as though i never did anything to my water to level the pH at all!!

eureka!! ive found what i did wrong and what i need to do for the future. . . instead of adding the pH down last or after the nutes , i am gonna add the pH down FIRST so that the water is at a stable level to begin with, SO THAT when the plants absorb the nutes it will go back to that stable level.

SOOOOO once i pH my water to say 6 - 6.5 then add my nutes , the nutes should bring it lower a couple points , so i go from 6 -6.5 to 5 -5.5(6), once the plants absorb the nutes from the water they would stop showing new growth and then i will know to add more nutes OR when the plants seemed to have stopped growing for lack of nutes, when i test my water it should be back to the 6 - 6.5 range!!! yes that seems to be it!!

well since my clones/cuts are doing so well now, i think i can try this method theory with the cloner especially since ive added a 18/6 light regimen , i know they are in need of some form of nutes.

so onward with the hydro grow i go people!!! but i aint gonna really post any pics of anything until i get the hydro stuff set back up again. i didn't take everything down just put away the hydroton and made room for some soil. i wanted to do a 50/50, but since ive figured out what the hell was going on, it makes no sense to have soil in with the hydro especially for the way i have my system setup

pics to come soon people. . .