Pruning below the canopy

[superultramega]

I suppose I could see it if you had a low height scrog for the reasons you mention.

Have you tried your scrog without pruning to see the difference?

 

[Standaman]

No but i did think about doing it for this grow but it was annoying me so i cleaned it up some.

If i remember to do it i will on my next grow, i like simple tests like that lol.

 

[superultramega]

That would be cool.

Re-reading my posts in this thread I kind of come off as a dick. Not my intention. Just curious about this.

 

[Standaman]

Nah not at all i have no problem bro i'm just sharing knowledge and looking for some too

 

[NS775]

SCROG = Super Dense Canopy. Mold/Mildew/Fungus Gnat prevention is reason enough in my mind. Oh yea, by clearing out all that crap it also gives you more room to get under your canopy for training. I bailed & went screenless this round (still very much a SCROG, minus the screen, plus lots of solid core wire tie downs). My table is 4.5'x4.5', with a solid canopy it'd be even more difficult to bend over the bitches that reside in the middle of the table without clearin' out the underbrush.

Just to play devil's advocate, since ur prune haterin' (j/k bout the haterin')... I even trim my uppermost fan leaves (only clip 25% of the tips on the bad offenders) to allow more light thru for a thicker canopy. I'm no expert... but I think it helps in the right situation. Hopefully soon I'll have some evidence to back that up with cuz I'm only doing it to half the table and I got the thing on a 1 frame / 30 min time lapse image capture for 2 weeks veg + flower.

 

[superultramega]

You guys are doing a good job of convincing me for low scrogs. I don't grow scrog, so some of these were not evident to me.

 

[delta9nxs]

I feel that plant maturity and root development create a “bud weight” set point that the plant wants to fulfill regardless of pruning or trimming. It is up to you how you want the final product to look. It is also up to you to control the amount of time you spend trimming. I harvest an approx. 10 oz plant once a week. So for me the difference is 8 hrs a month or 24 hrs a month. I don't even have a large show going. Can you imagine the time some of these folks spend trimming?

I have been growing the same cut with no mothers for seven years so i'm really tuned in to this plant. It does produce slightly more bud weight pruned.

Indoors, application of light is the single most important growth factor. Out of 100%, light is 60%, environmental, gets 30%, all other factors together only get 10%. (nutrients, medium, style, etc)

photosynthesis occurs in direct proportion to gross photon flux. The more light hitting the target, the greater the rate of growth. Think about that inverse square rule.

You get more light hitting the target by running bud forming branch ends as close to the light as possible without burning them. For me it's 8-10” from a 1k hps hortilux. If your interior is thinned at the same time it greatly enhances the effect of penetration. Buds on the other side of the plant are getting more than they would normally. Turning the plant regularly evens out growth.

In the 4th week of flower I stake the plants with a 5' wooden tomato stake. I then methodically begin tying bigger, heavier branches to it as they start getting “floppy”.

This accomplishes several things. It keeps the buds up in the light field. It reduces the plants “footprint”. But most importantly, it allows me to move the entire plant closer to the light. The closest proximity is still 8-10”, but all the bud bearing branches are now much closer to the light because of compactness. Still turning the plant. The buds on the “back” side are only 16-20” from the light.

Weeks 4,5,6,7, which are the heaviest bud forming weeks for me, the plants are getting hit simultaneously by 2 1k's 120 degrees apart.

This only works for me because of pruning.

I still get enough trim to produce 12-14 g of electrostatic kif per month. (see photo)

bag appeal is huge. A bunch of large, nearly uniform, hard, dense, potent buds.

 

[superultramega]

I grow in a similar method just substituting string ties for the tomato stick and I see no difference in final weight pruned or left wild. I do see a very noticable decline in bubble when trimmed however.
I do disagree with your first paragraph however. My experience shows otherwise. Also, you don't need to manicure popcorn from the lower branches, just cut it and make bubble. I often hit the lower branches first and for a 2kw grow it takes 1-2 hrs to clear it all out prepped for hash making. very fast, easy work

 

[BurmeseDragon]

Those trimmed real nicely, I see a lot of pictures where if people thought ahead...they would of not wasted all that time to just prune the bottom.

Yours look great, should really let the air move around. It is so ugly when people go hog wild, trying to make that top cola on a three foot plant...and only leaving a foot at the time (some exaggeration some actually seen before).

Personally I like SOG, so I only prune the bottom when there is air issues, mostly pertaining to disease. Outdoors the bottoms can use some space, or it turns into a factory of voodoo!

I just hate a tall bare plant that is hoping on some top 'choice' buds but honestly, nice good side branches really make a plant fill in....I just look at how plants form their side branching more than the Cola, unless I am cutting that top bud area...it's usually not even one bud, it's compacted branches that remind us of bracts on buds...but not usually so densely formed.

Great job dude!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Pictures of how YOU prune?

So Im having a VERY hard time trying to figure out how high to trim the girls.

At day 20... go around and give each branch a little 'pull' and see how strong the stem is...

If it's spindly and weak... Cut it! Depending on your grow style and the strain you're running... you're going to trim everything below the 3-5th node. Opens up the air-flow under the canopy and puts all that energy into the top buds. (Don't worry... the canopy will fill in those little holes and your buds will be fatter for the time you took.)

Stay Safe!

 

[delta9nxs]

hi, superultramega! nice to meet you!

looks like "different goals", which is just fine. and this is all very subjective. there is little peer reviewed scientific research happening on pot forums.

could you please point to which sentence or sentences in paragraph one you disagree with? i'm a little confused.

meanwhile, i'll leave you all with a pic of a well pruned plant. my theory is, "the less branches, the less decorations".

 

[superultramega]

I feel that plant maturity and root development create a “bud weight” set point that the plant wants to fulfill regardless of pruning or trimming.

I disagree with this part. I have seen no evidence to support this IME.
Also, I disagree that it would take much longer to trim when using popcorn for bubble.

 

[delta9nxs]

i guess what i was inadequately trying to express is that i feel 2 plants, same cut, same veg and flower time, same root development, same everything except 1 being pruned and 1 being unpruned, will yield very similar gross bud weight. you don't think that's true? my subjective experience is that i get ever so slightly higher yield with a pruned plant, but the difference is so small it could easily be attributable to other factors.

oh yeah, i don't think i said it would take much longer to trim when using popcorn for bubble. obviously, if you are just lopping the popcorn off for hash it's going to be a lot faster than trimming for the bag.

 

[DHF]

There`s been an unwritten rule for yields per container for indoor grows for a lotta years and I`m sorry if you`ve not seen it in your experience superultra but "as a rule" 1 oz per gallon container has been the go to results per containers in soil and elevates from that in hydro............

Delta`s nothing but "dead on" as far as cullin the bullshit underneath to provide for larger bud growth on the upper extremities of said plant once pruned/trimmed/lollipopped for prime results......

But.......If you`d rather have lil popcorn buds/colas all over your plants from not trimmin out underneath and pruning suckers on each branch instead of the the outer branches/end colas lookin like donkey dicks, then it`s all a matter of preference I suppose cuz in the scheme of things I suppose if you hadta add up and weigh all the flarf taken away for bubble and bullshit that CANNOT be used for bag appeal it all might add up the same in a perfect world weight wise but where folks would loveta smoke flarfy popcorn instead of honkin ass donkey dicks but again.......that`s just me........Apples and oranges........

For the record.........I don`t see where Bubble from trim and popcorn adds to the bottomline but I`ve been wrong before.......

Anything the lights can`t penetrate down to only takes energy away from colas/nugs that`re in close proximity to the blastin down close lumens for maximum swellage......... And hey Super ultra this is something I HAVE experienced for almost 15 yrs so I`m not sure your experience sets a precedent for averages across the board..........

Carry on Delta.........I`ve gotcher back where all those yrs come necessary..........No offense "Superultramega" just different ends to a better means IME...........

Peace......DHF.........

 

[ThisBuds4You]

Freezerboy has a very good example of what SCROG buds underneath the screen look like, maybe he can chime in???

Anyway, here's a photo of my trimmed up SCROG, vegetation and buds will die and mold if they're not removed

 

[superultramega]

There`s been an unwritten rule for yields per container for indoor grows for a lotta years and I`m sorry if you`ve not seen it in your experience superultra but "as a rule" 1 oz per gallon container has been the go to results per containers in soil and elevates from that in hydro............

Delta`s nothing but "dead on" as far as cullin the bullshit underneath to provide for larger bud growth on the upper extremities of said plant once pruned/trimmed/lollipopped for prime results......

But.......If you`d rather have lil popcorn buds/colas all over your plants from not trimmin out underneath and pruning suckers on each branch instead of the the outer branches/end colas lookin like donkey dicks, then it`s all a matter of preference I suppose cuz in the scheme of things I suppose if you hadta add up and weigh all the flarf taken away for bubble and bullshit that CANNOT be used for bag appeal it all might add up the same in a perfect world weight wise but where folks would loveta smoke flarfy popcorn instead of honkin ass donkey dicks but again.......that`s just me........Apples and oranges........

For the record.........I don`t see where Bubble from trim and popcorn adds to the bottomline but I`ve been wrong before.......

Anything the lights can`t penetrate down to only takes energy away from colas/nugs that`re in close proximity to the blastin down close lumens for maximum swellage......... And hey Super ultra this is something I HAVE experienced for almost 15 yrs so I`m not sure your experience sets a precedent for averages across the board..........

Carry on Delta.........I`ve gotcher back where all those yrs come necessary..........No offense "Superultramega" just different ends to a better means IME...........

Peace......DHF.........

1 oz per gallon container?
uh that's a new one to me.

You seem to be listing a bunch of dogma. Thanks, but I've heard that before.
I get the same amount of bag ready product whether I prune or not. If I prune I get way less bubble. Maybe you missed that part. And you can definitely increase your bottom line with bubble. My popcorn is just as frosty as the colas, they just aren't as dense. They produce a lot of bubble.

I guess if you want to cut that off and throw it in the trash that's your business.