Using river water for a room chiler (swamp chiller)

[liquidcooled420]

I am trying to figure out a way to run river water to a room chiller in a sealed grow room.
The river is about 200' away and i own land right up to the river. The weather gets real cold in the winter so i would have to run it under ground.
I was thinking maybe if i run the drain line right next to the intake line that it would prevent the line from freezing if it was a foot or so under the ground.
As for the pump to push or pull the water maybe a jet pump like they use for houses might work.

Anyone ever hear of someone doing something like this?

 

[Guest]

Sound nice! Also look into hydroelectric power if there is steady flow to the river. Is a great affordable eco friendly power source. Add another lamp or 5 this way, hehe!

As for pipe freezing, same as the river make sure the pipe are always flow during the winter. The pump will depend on elevation, distance to travel, and amount to flow. A set of sediment filters will prove useful for maintaining a working pump for long term imo.

Great use of natural sustainable resources! Sincere bravo!

 

[Lazyman]

Check out heatexchanger.ca for the part that goes inside your room, they are not cheap, and not quiet, but a speed controller might help. Be prepared for condensation too. Just plug the water pump and exchanger for it into a thermostat inside your room, this is is what will control the temps.

 

[liquidcooled420]

thanks for the suggestions. As for the elevation it will have to lift about 30' or so. So i guess the thing i need to find out is how much water the room chiller will use so i can see how many gph pump i need.

there will be 6k watts of lights split between two rooms on a flip flop contactor relay. Each room 8 x16 located in a basement. Temperatures get pretty hot in the summer. there will be a control "lung room" for cycling the air in each room. This will allow the use of only one C02 Generator, dehumidifer, air scrubber, chiller.

Any idea what size chiller i should get, usually bigger is better, Seems like most people use the 3 fan ones. T

 

[Lazyman]

I'd say a pair of 15-20K exchangers should be plenty, one for each room. Check fountain and pond pumps for lift and flow rate charts, but it'll be pretty big.

You'll want a big dehuey for a room like that, check sylvane.com for Santa Fe pricing.

 

[xtremraptor]

I was thinking maybe if i run the drain line right next to the intake line that it would prevent the line from freezing if it was a foot or so under the ground.

not sure where you live but if your ground freezes frost can go as deep as 3 too 4 feet in untraveled areas. if there is traffic in that area it can go deeper.

bury the pipe at least 2 to 3 feet down and cover it with 2" foam insulation board. this will divert the frost around the pipe above the foam and help retain geo heat under the foam.

same as the river make sure the pipe are always flow during the winter

very true, standing water will freeze much quicker so making sure you have continuous flow is important as well.

like i said not sure where you live but simple things can be done too prevent freeze ups

 

[liquidcooled420]

Im in new england so it does freeze up to 4 feet. I think Having the hot drain line right next to the intake line will also help.

I need to find out what type of pump to use now.

Also, I forgot to mention that the lights will be vented using 6" fans pushing and pulling into the furnace chimney. So i dont think i will need as much cooling power.

 

[EvilTwin]

LQ,
Another option would be an air-to-water heat pump. You'd get great efficiency and could use it to AC your house too in summer. I knew a guy who did that with an old well. Worked great.
ET

 

[Bozo]

I am building a unit out of a salvaged commercial ac unit.The condenser is 4 feet wide and 3 feet tall with 2- 18 inch fans .I am going to use a electric solenoid valve to control when water flows.I dont know what it will be capable of but I am hoping it will be able to cool 4-600 watt open bulbs so I can add co2 .If this works I am going to do my other room like this and shit can my 1200btu ac .Lazyman is correct condensation will be an issue .I will have system set up by next weekend hopefully.I will post my results

 

[liquidcooled420]

bozo, that sounds like it could work good.

does anyone know if a room chiller uses a thermostat to control when the water flows? If it was setup drain to waste using tap water i would think you would want the water to stop when the room reaches the right temp to conserve water.

Also anyone know how much water a 3 fan chiller uses on average? I read that factories use them using city water drain to waste. You would think that it would be cheaper to use a AC that uses freon and electricity.

 

[deepforest]

room chillers aka heat exchangers use a solenoid connected to the water line to open it up and let water pass when high temp setpoint is reached or stop it when the temp drops. the fans run 24/7, but you can probably easily wire them up to only come on when the solenoid trips. this is great for drain to waste systems as it saves some water.

they can also be configured the other way , with the water running continuously through the coils , and the fans only turn on when temp setpoint is reached. this is better for recirculating systems i imagine, where you need the water to run through your reservoir chiller continuously to keep it cool.


they use alot of water , i think its 5gpm when they are on. in my experience i think they actually use more. thats why it would be great having a river source as you wouldnt have to worry about usage. they are also no good in the summer if your tap water temps go up. i imagine the factories have calculated that the water utility cost for a heat exchanger is less than electricity costs for water cooled ac. water cooled ac's usually require their own 30 amp circuit at least, for something that can handle an 8 lighter i think, but heat exchangers run off a 15 amp plugin. each fan draws like 2.75 amps @ 120v . a 3 fan with cold water can easily do 8-10 lights non-aircooled . but they are virtually useless if your tap water temp goes up alot.

personally i think if your able to do drain to waste without getting a massive water bill and your water stays cool year round, the heat exchanger is the best, but if your water temps go up in summer the water cooled a/c is probably better . running a heat exchanger off a closed system with a chiller to keep water temps down seems kind of counter intuitive as those chillers draw alot of power themselves. and are expensive.

 

[liquidcooled420]

deepforest thanks for the easy to understand info, it seems there is alot of mixed information about water cooled setups.

I also read somewhere about people drilling holes in the paddles in the water meter device to make it look like less water is being used. This seems like it would not be worth the risk, however, the water meter that i have seen is very easy to disconnect. In fact when i was redoing the vinyl siding i disconnected it and forgot to reconnect it for a couple of months, and i never heard anything from the water dept. There is no water shortage here at all, however. So it is most likely more seriously metered in places like Cali.

 

[Bozo]

Meters here are electronic and are read remotely .Single family dwellings do not have meters we pay a flat rate sewer and water bill.

Wouldnt altering your meter be kinda like stealing power.What a shitty way to get caught with a garden .I suggest you dont alter your meter ,not worth getting caught for a few gallons of extra water.

I would really try to use the river if you are that concerned about your water bill

 

[NS775]

Having a flowing river/creek is a kick-ass resource to have! Depending on your time/$/ability you have all kinds of options. In general, assuming this is a decently large river w/ a fairly constant/strong flow, I would seriously consider doing some sort of hydro generator setup. You could do something as simple as a DIY paddlewheel type contraption hooked to something like this....

10,000 Watts Max/7200 Watts Rated Belt-Driven Generator Head


Then to even out the flow of power you could step it down with a rectifier to a bank of salvaged car batteries which can be had for $20 a piece, give or take. Then use the 12v to run a DC motor to power the gen. when water flow is insufficient. Anyways, I'm going on a tangent here... the point is that it is a fantastic resource & your definitely pointed in the right direction if you're thinking bout how to utilize it.

As far as cooling... I dunno if you tend to go DIY or storebought, but a simple DIY(ghetto) solution would be a basic heat exchanger.... Get yourself 2 radiators (car engine or transmission style radiators). Or if you wanna go REAL diy, get some copper tubing and do your own coil type radiator. Then grab a sufficient pump... you said u were dealing with 30' elevation so something like this would fit the bill.....



Its rated @ 330GPH max & 115 ft. max head, and its only $40! Put 1 radiator in the river, plumb a send & return line between house & river, hookup pump, and put the 2nd radiator in whatever ur cooling, and bam! ur good to go!

Now realistically it'd need some tweaking, but if setup well then cooling capacity would probably be mostly limited by the size of your pump & temp/flow of the river (presuming ur radiators had good thermal transfer ability and well insulated lines) . You could even fill the system with a different transfer medium that had more heat capacity than H20 (car antifreeze/coolant maybe?)

***IF YOU ATTEMPT SOMETHING DIY, BE AWARE THAT COPPER LEACHES IN ACIDIC SOLUTIONS(VERY BAD FOR PLANTS)***

Also don't forget about the water itself! I don't know how rural you are, if u have reverse osmosis, and what your tap water is like, but the river water might be better quality than your tap (and it'd be chlorine/chloramine free, or at least have a lot less) and you could use it to fill your res's