new house, lots of questions!!!

[deepforest]

hi icmag

so whats up, i finally found a suitable place to grow and ive got a few questions. I plan on running 4kw with air cooled hoods. I haven't decided if i will run exhaust and intakes or seal it off. heres my dillemna. Its winter and the weather is super cold, plus the house is up in the mountains so even colder. Its an old place with terrible insulation, the windows are all single pane so it gets FREEZING in there, i had to keep waking up at night to keep the fireplace going. the floors are freezing as well because theres a crawl space underneath the house. i dont have much money to invest in the first run and i thought id take advantage of the cold weather to save on buying an a/c system. it was -8 celsius (17.6 f) in the morning the other day. do you think that is cold enough to run 4 1kw air cooled lights without any sort of air conditioner or exhaust???? i.e. a sealed room without any sort of cooling device? i already have a nice co2 controller so its not much of a cost running co2 but i cant afford to get an a/c unit or heat exhanger yet. in the summer i plan to. so basically 4 1kw lights with an 8" 675cfm fan sucking cold air from the crawlspace through the lights and then into the house to save on heating costs in the house. my thinking was that if i run the lights at night i could maybe keep the temps around 28-30 celsius which is fine when you are running co2. keep in mind i need some leeway as its going to warm up in 2-3 months a bit when winter comes to an end. i was planning to simply poly up the room and drop in the lights and plants (running soilless) and run a scrubber to get a quick run done to get more financially secure before investing more. is it impossible to go without a/c due to heat build up?

also i will probably need to get a heater to run during the day to keep the temps up as i can literally see my breath in there even during the day. what kind of heater should i look for??


also its my first time on well water. i havent had a chance to test it yet but the neighbors tell me its high in calcium so i assume i should invest in an r/o system. what is a good affordable and user friendly r/o system that i can run a 4 lighter off of? i think i will probably use 55-65 gallons of water every two or three days in peak flowering. im going to be running promix so i am pretty sure r/o is essential due to potential salt buildup and lockout.

im on a real budget so any suggestions will be helpful.

any suggestions or issues you can think of would be great

 

[Ganja D]

It sounds like your on the right track. You def don't need an ac until after the winter. When I used to grow in cold climates I vented the room with 1 727 cfm inline fan while lights were on and cooled lights with a 475 cfm pulling from hoods. It was basic and worked great. Back then I had to get creative and adjust vent fans with timers based on temps inside and out. You may have a harder time keeping the room from getting too cold when lights are off. If your heating the home with wood entirely you will need to ad a heater for sure during the day even if your lights are on at night. Try not to let your room get below 55 degrees f. Below 50 will really stunt growth or worse.
If it's your first grow I would recommend getting your grow room temps where they need to be before using the co2. Hope this help a little, I'm sure you'll get some advise from people more qualified then me.

Good luck.

 

[deepforest]

its not my first grow but like i said im on a serious budget so i cant really invest too much.

so you mentioned that you had both an exhaust as well as air cooled hoods. now that i think of it, i would need an exhaust becuase wouldn't heat just keep building up as it has nowhere to go? what im trying to say is that in a sealed room in winter without an a/c, even though the temps are super cold outside, heat would still build up over the 18 hour or 12 hour lights on period so by the end of the lights on cycle it might be too hot for the plants? rethinking this i think i might just put in a simple exhaust and save the co2 for when i can get an a/c system.

so heres what i think now

keep the air cooled lights on seperate vented circuit as planned

instead of running co2, turn the circulating scrubber into an exhaust scrubber with a fan on a speed / temp controller to keep the room temps in check. i think its cold enough that i dont need an active intake. there is an attached bathroom where i can leave the window open and close the door and the exhaust fan venting the room can suck in cold air under the door through negative pressure. that saves me cutting another hole in the floor. ill save the co2 system for when i can get the room nicely insulated and dialled in for summer co2 .

so now all i need to figure out is:

1. how to speed control / temperature control my exhaust fan to keep room temps normal during lights on?

2. what kind of heater should i get to keep temps up during lights off?

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID K.I.S.S.


but still, can someoen answer me the question that if temps are low enough outside , is it possible to run a sealed room with air cooled lights without any sort of room air conditioning ????

thanks

 

[Lazyman]

Where i live it doesn't snow, and 8kw plus a propane heater can't get the room above 62*F. No air cooled lights, building is shut up tight but still has a bunch of leaks I can't fix. I doubt you'll need air cooled anything, get the lights going, add all the insulation you can afford (everywhere!) and try to get it warm enough in there for plants. If you can't get it into the sixties with lights on you have to insulate/heat more.

 

[Ganja D]

Right on.
Also as far as well water, it's usually pretty clean but can get effected in spring when snow melts from run off contamination. I wouldn't worry about a r/o, a less expensive water filter would prob work fine. You may not even need to worry about water if your growing in soil with good water ph. Last time I used well water, ph was 6.5 and never checked tds ppm. Healthy plants don't always mind a little extra calcium I believe. I have a few photos from the old room I was talking about I'll post later tonight. Check em out at my profile page later. You'll be able to see some of the venting.
I also has a 4 in duct and an unused fan to bring fresh air with negetive pressure. Very basic and simple, worked fine.
Good luck.

 

[Ganja D]

Where i live it doesn't snow, and 8kw plus a propane heater can't get the room above 62*F. No air cooled lights, building is shut up tight but still has a bunch of leaks I can't fix. I doubt you'll need air cooled anything, get the lights going, add all the insulation you can afford (everywhere!) and try to get it warm enough in there for plants. If you can't get it into the sixties with lights on you have to insulate/heat more.

True, you may not even need to worry about venting the lights. One big exhaust fan with lights on at top of room should be fine for temps. Good call on insulation.

 

[deepforest]

wow, lazyman, you run 8kw uncooled without a/c or vents??? thats crazy!!! ever think about adding a couple spare MH lights just to bring temps up and to add mixed spectrum???? i also get the hint from some of your other posts that u dont run co2. why not? you might as well. i agree with u that its not essential to have co2 supplemenation in a (non-hermetically) sealed room but it'll boost your yield if u do. i still think if u had a perfect sealed room with no leaks you'd definately need co2 or your plants would suffer, but i dont know of any growers with perfectly sealed rooms.

i guess i will just have to try. im going to attempt running sealed room without a.c. im really anxious to try co2 for the first time and see how yields . lol do you like how first post im all about sealed room, second post i renege and decide to vent, third post im back wanting sealed.


ok heres what im doing now that ive thought it through based on the advice in this thread.

im going to run 4 NON air cooled lights with one 8" fan scrubber cleaning smells in room, but not exhausting anywhere. i will also run co2 because i have the equipment. plus i will save a bit of money by getting non ac'd hoods. in the summer time i can reevaluate and decide wether i want to upgrade to air cooled hoods or not, depending on if i need them. also i will get a heater. i will let u all know if this will work or if it will be a disastrous failure. 5 min ago i would have called anyone crazy for attempting this but i think its cold enough up there that it will work. plus im broke as hell and basically have no choice.

 

[deepforest]

True, you may not even need to worry about venting the lights. One big exhaust fan with lights on at top of room should be fine for temps. Good call on insulation.

lazyman has inspired me to not cool the hoods or vent the room. i will see how it goes. i imagine in 2.5 months from now at the end of flowering it might get tight temperature wise, and if its a problem i can quickly turn the scrubber into a vent to get me through to harvest. and then next run i will invest in air conditioning and run 8kw. im not convinced that i can get away with 8kw without a/c like lazyman . in fact i dont believe he exists and hes a figment of my imagination becuase nowehere did i think it was possible to run 8kw without any sort of vent or a/c.

 

[Ganja D]

I don't know of a climate not cold enough for snow where you can run 8k watts with no vents or ac in a sealed room with co2. It would get way over 90-95 degrees. Even with co2 it would get too hot. If your on a budget, vent room not lights with 8 inch fan attatched to scrubber. You can vent it into the rest of your house to heat it. Get a simple 15 dollar timer that has 15 minute intervals. keep it on most of the time lights are on. And maybe on for 15 mins every hour with lights off. Record temps and adjust as needed. Very simple and it will work until winter and cold weather ends.
Get a safe heater and same timer and use it only with lights off.
If you don't vent at all even with co2, in your situation your room will be above 100 degrees f with lights on. Not good.
Good luck either way man.

 

[Equilibrium]

Nice project you have there...

Just one thing. You do have the lights already right? Why don't you do some tests? Put the 4KW on without being aircooled and see the temps. If it gets too hot, use the aircooled hoods....

I think you need to run some tests.

 

[Lazyman]

So I grow in a 20X30 outbuilding (steel shed, basically) with 18' ceilings, and little insulation (I insulated the sun facing wall for summer heat.) In the nighttime it drops to 25-45*F here, and since I run my lights at night it doesn't need almost any ventilation at night, because the building leaks enough air. Too much, at times. I rent and can't fix up the building without arousing serious suspicion, and I'm maxed on power so I can't add more lights.

I did try CO2, the 24K BTU burner basically never turned off it leaked so fast. Not viable at all. A 20 gallon propane tank would last me 2.2 days at the rate it was burning.

 

[Ganja D]

Cool makes sense to me. I was picturing some enclosed room in a house or something with 8 lights and no vents whatsoever, that's why I was confused.
Your stuff looks awesome lazyman. You got some great strains. Can't wain to see more.

 

[deepforest]

ok ya ganjad thats probably the right solution. i got a bit overzealous. lazymans shed probably leaks alot more than my room. if i have to hold off on co2 till i can really seal it and run a/c i guess i will have too.

 

[fishheadbob]

It's about -8 celsius here today, 17F , but my grow closet is near the furnace. I vent, just gravity , some cold air into it to keep it about 70F. I haven't had to adjust my intake damper once I got it right . The colder the outside air, the harder and hotter the furnace runs, and the colder the air coming into the closet. It all balances out nicely.