Soil recycler--too much water retention

[Holmes Slice]

All, I have been using LC mix for quite some time, but started recycling it using the 3LBs method for about 6 months

My recycled mix retains too much water, and after 5-6 days the pots still feel pretty heavy.

Is the solution to add more peat or perhaps more perlite?

I would like to increase drainage and retain a bit less water between waterings.

Thanks for any insights you may have.

 

[maryjohn]

LC mix made from scratch stays just as heavy without a plant in it, especially in the fall.

So are we talking just soil? Plants?

 

[habeeb]

well more information is needed

temps, humidity, plant size, pot size. there are many factors when it comes to water, but does sound like your on the heavy side of things..

 

[Holmes Slice]

Sorry if I didn't give enough info...

rh is typically around 50-60% (maybe goes up to 70-75% during humid/summer months) I grow in a basement and have a dehumidifier going in the next room, my rh is monitored both in the grow space and ambient with digital remote thermo/hygros.

Grow temps are typically in the low-mid 70's. I am growing Papaya mostly and a few donated clones whos origin is undetermined, but their finishing times point to indica dom.

When my plants are in veg, they seem to want water every 6 days, when in flower they seem to want it about every 4-5 (with recycled soil) Pots are 3G square size with adequate drainage. My LC (newly mixed) seems to want water every 3-4 days, my recycled mix seems to hold the water a bit more.

Plants looks great, no defs, no problems and smokes great. I just noticed a few gnats again after a spell of not having them and would like to prevent their return.

A friend suggested more perlite, but from I can see that stuff really likes to hold on to the water.

 

[habeeb]

^ your temps and humidity seem to be be getting a day or two extra then what would be if you had humidty at 35-45 and temps at 80-85..

how are the leafs looking? droopy or fine. also how are the bottom leaves? if there yellowing ( which could be from many things ) can indicate lack of oxygen to the roots zone.

we can only say so much without knowing the setup day after day. if you think it's to heavy add some more perlite next round and see how that goes, if it's to light after that just add some more peat / worm castings again, life is about experimenting..

 

[jaykush]

of course it holds more water, the materials in the original mix have been broken down by the micro organisms. over time humus is formed, even if it be a little bit humus holds A LOT of water. im guessing the peat has broken down to a similar degree and it holds more water too than fresh. are you still having to feed as much to get the same results?

cant you just water less?

 

[NUG-JUG]

of course it holds more water, the materials in the original mix have been broken down by the micro organisms. over time humus is formed, even if it be a little bit humus holds A LOT of water. im guessing the peat has broken down to a similar degree and it holds more water too than fresh. are you still having to feed as much to get the same results?

hmm interesting i didn't think about that the extra humus would cause water retention issues..would adding more perlite be ok since the richness of the used soil would make up for it? vermiculite holds water perlite doesn't. Is there a point that reusing soil starts to be bad?Since i plan on using lc's mix and re-using soil this a concern of mine too.

 

[jaykush]

its more of a long term effect most people dont come across. when recycling soil, to me it is the main objective. i dont see a point where the soil gets bad, when re using soil here it just gets better and better. and i have to feed less and less. i use sand/lavarock instead of perlite because i get it free locally. its more long term than perlite too. if anything just keep "fluffing" it up.

are your plants are still happy, do you notice they dont like the wet feet as much?

 

[maryjohn]

Does perlite break down? I figured it just got dirty.

Growing inside is hard.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Does perlite break down? I figured it just got dirty.

Whats a good alternative to perlite that doesn't break down? Besides sand and lava rock like Jaykush said. Also what do you mean "fluffing it up?" Just add more perlite and re-mix it?

 

[jaykush]

one alternative that is getting big is rice hulls.

and yes by fluffing it up i mean add something to help aerate the soil, perlite being one of them.

 

[Stoned Crow]

Where do you get these rice hulls? Are commercial places selling them? Is it basically the chaffe of harvested rice? It sounds really interesting.

 

[maryjohn]

Yeah I have looked for rice hulls to no avail. I'd love some hints.

 

[JackTheGrower]

growing alfalfa in the soil then composting the soil and alfalfa works wonders for tilth

 

[Holmes Slice]

Yeah, I've been very light with putting the recylced soil in, as Jay said kind of keeping it 'fluffy' I think it comes from the breakdown of the peat and the cloggin of the Perlite.

The plants look great, no defs, no root probs at all...I don't want to mess with a good thing. I just want the soil to dry out a bit more for aeration and to keep gnats at bay. I have had to Neem in a while, but always have a few gnats.

Oh, and YES...weed grown in recycled soil is SOOOO much better than it is with first run soil. I started doing this earlier in the year and am SOOO pleased with the results.

 

[jaykush]

rice hulls are hard to find, but i guess when you do find them, they are dirt cheap. i havent found them myself. no rice industry here.

 

[Holmes Slice]

rice hulls are hard to find, but i guess when you do find them, they are dirt cheap. i havent found them myself. no rice industry here.

What about the by-products of brewing/malting?

 

[jaykush]

what about it, sorry im not familiar with it.

 

[Holmes Slice]

When grains are roasted/malted for beer, they must separate massive quantities of grains. While most European and German beers are wheat, Budweiser uses 80% rice. Someone has to have a mountain of rice hulls as big as Everest sitting around.

 

[NUG-JUG]

I found this little paragraph on rice hulls. Holmes Slice is probably right about the rice hull mountain.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2464/

RICE HULLS

After rice is harvested, the grains are dried and hulled before being polished, parboiled or "converted," or sold as brown rice. Rice hulls are thin, feather-light with the thin, pointed shape of rice grains. They can be used on their own, to lighten soil and improve both drainage and water retention. Or they can be added to potting mixes for seedlings and containers. handful of pale chaff-like rice hullsI think of the hulls as being similar to vermiculite, another other product I've used for years.

You may be able to find rice hulls at your local nursery. For a probably cheaper source, check the yellow pages for a brewing supply company. Home-brewers use rice hulls for filtering beer after fermentation. Mid-Altlantic DGer SallyG found a local source for us to try at about a dollar a pound (Thanks, Sally!).

Wanting to be cautious about using a new-to-me product, I added two and a half pounds of rice hulls (about 2 gallons) to 20 gallons of un-compressed coir. They do seem to swell up a lot when wet, so I didn't want to overdo it.

here in Colorado we have a lot of micro brewers. I should call around...