what is wrong?

[tokerofdakill]

ill break it down.. there is a 15 amp circit that is suppost to be for the room alone..it shows clean 120 vlts. on a ideal meter.but when things are plugged in they run twice as hard. it just smoked a household fan after 30 mins...it also smoked a new growbrite fan filter combo..new got here today.. but am afraid to plug it and the new 600 watt diital up to this outlet, anyone know what mite be wrong?

 

[EvilTwin]

toker,
It really sounds like a corroded connection at the breaker. I'd tighten down the screws that hold the wire into the breaker. You could test the circuit by putting a load on it while also checking the voltage. Bet the voltage drops way down.

Shut the breaker off and use an insulated screwdriver and you should be able to do it with the breaker right in the box. Carefully snug down the screws and re-test. Let me know if I was wrong and we'll try and find you some help.

If you were maxing out the circuit...then you'd be tripping the breaker.
ET

 

[tokerofdakill]

eviltwin whats up? i just put in a new 15 amp breaker and outlet there was a 20 amp b4.. however u cud be rite, it is old wiring but i cant see anything at all.. it a 100 amp main jumpin off the other main..there is also a 40 amp that runs off this 100 amp which is for outside ac but its not running now and has been fine for years..anything i plug into this circuit is being fried.. i really dont get it...

 

[caljim]

When your testing voltage on that receptacle check your potential from the hot to neutral AND hot to ground.

If your getting 240v hot to neutral or 120v neutral to ground theres your problem

This could be from a broken/failed receptacle (especially if plug spliced ), or a fault in the wiring.

Sounds like your getting 240v if your smoking devices and fans are running fast.

 

[EvilTwin]

eviltwin whats up? i just put in a new 15 amp breaker and outlet there was a 20 amp b4.. however u cud be rite, it is old wiring but i cant see anything at all.. it a 100 amp main jumpin off the other main..there is also a 40 amp that runs off this 100 amp which is for outside ac but its not running now and has been fine for years..anything i plug into this circuit is being fried.. i really dont get it...

Hi Toker...
Just chillin'

I don't accept Caljin's idea. You can't get 240v from a 110v circuit unless something is drastically messed up at the box.

The two things that you burned out were both motors which require the correct voltage to operate on. So they would burn out if connected to...say 70 volts.

Like I said before...I don't think this is a load issue.

Since you have a new breaker...then you can rule out my previous suggestion...but you could have a weakness elsewhere in that circuit. A bad connection at a socket. Corrosion inside a wire (usually occurs near the socket). Something that will have high resistance that will drop the voltage.

This is a serious thing and a fire risk. This is how I'd approach the problem. Track down everywere that that circuit goes. Use a voltmeter or just a lamp to plug into a socket. Plug the lamp in and then trip the breaker to be sure it's in the right circuit. End result will be a map. Then pull all the sockets, inspect and replace them all. Check switches too.

I'll ask one of the electricians on the site to check in on your thread.
ET

 

[whatissixbynine]

.

 

[tokerofdakill]

Hi Toker...
Just chillin'

I don't accept Caljin's idea. You can't get 240v from a 110v circuit unless something is drastically messed up at the box.

The two things that you burned out were both motors which require the correct voltage to operate on. So they would burn out if connected to...say 70 volts.

Like I said before...I don't think this is a load issue.

Since you have a new breaker...then you can rule out my previous suggestion...but you could have a weakness elsewhere in that circuit. A bad connection at a socket. Corrosion inside a wire (usually occurs near the socket). Something that will have high resistance that will drop the voltage.

This is a serious thing and a fire risk. This is how I'd approach the problem. Track down everywere that that circuit goes. Use a voltmeter or just a lamp to plug into a socket. Plug the lamp in and then trip the breaker to be sure it's in the right circuit. End result will be a map. Then pull all the sockets, inspect and replace them all. Check switches too.

I'll ask one of the electricians on the site to check in on your thread.
ET

hey eviltwin thanks for ur help.. but like i say there is only one socket/outlet running on this 15 amp and its new i just put it in..so there is nothing else that is running off of it..the breaker and outlet are on and have been all nite..they are no hot when u touch them..and all the wires are tight.. i didnt use isullated screwdriver's but did put the new 15 amp in place of the 20 while both panels were hot.. cant get the main shut off except by the power company.. and im not pulling a permit..also as i say my meter is showing a clean 120 volts....i can take pics if i need, so yes eviltwin please get me sum help if u can thanks alot

 

[EvilTwin]

Toker...
I PMed a member whose a journeyman electrician. Hope he shows up.

But you don't need any expert advice. If you are 100% sure that there's only one socket on that circuit (which is very unusual) and you've replaced both that socket and the breaker (Don't understand why you went down in size)....then...

You need to run a new wire. That's all that's left.
ET

PS: Have you run the test I suggested? Measure voltage while plugging in a load. An electric heater would be a good load or hair dryer. This would give useful information.

 

[tokerofdakill]

Toker...
I PMed a member whose a journeyman electrician. Hope he shows up.

But you don't need any expert advice. If you are 100% sure that there's only one socket on that circuit (which is very unusual) and you've replaced both that socket and the breaker (Don't understand why you went down in size)....then...

You need to run a new wire. That's all that's left.
ET

PS: Have you run the test I suggested? Measure voltage while plugging in a load. An electric heater would be a good load or hair dryer. This would give useful information.

EvilTwin, thanks for ur help.. i just put a 1600 watt blow dryer on it and while running still showing 120 volts of clean power..also the 20 amp was changed to a 15 cause of how much 20 amp surge protectors are vs. the 15 amp.i am a total newbie to indoors, but not outdoor.. i totally dont get this it at all....

 

[sorcival]

Ohms law states that resistance is equal to volts divided by amps...or
R = v/a (R can also be stated as watts)

Whenever you show volts normal, BUT the amps are like blazing, then there is a short
in the system somewhere. It is most likely the excessive amps that are frying your
plug appliances. Low volts will only cause an appliance to operate sluggishly.
Example: A dimmer switch on a light circuit can be used to vary the voltage or
amperage to brighten or dim the light bulb.
However, when the amps are high(short) then the light will burn abnormally bright.

Suggestion....use an ammeter inline in the circuit to determine the amps within the
circuit, or you could use a clamp ammeter.
Remember that the volt/amp relationship is determined by the load(resistance).
A low resistance(short) produces high amps...while a high resistance(open) produces
low amps.

 

[tokerofdakill]

Ohms law states that resistance is equal to volts divided by amps...or
R = v/a (R can also be stated as watts)

Whenever you show volts normal, BUT the amps are like blazing, then there is a short
in the system somewhere. It is most likely the excessive amps that are frying your
plug appliances. Low volts will only cause an appliance to operate sluggishly.
Example: A dimmer switch on a light circuit can be used to vary the voltage or
amperage to brighten or dim the light bulb.
However, when the amps are high(short) then the light will burn abnormally bright.

Suggestion....use an ammeter inline in the circuit to determine the amps within the
circuit, or you could use a clamp ammeter.
Remember that the volt/amp relationship is determined by the load(resistance).
A low resistance(short) produces high amps...while a high resistance(open) produces
low amps.

yes amps are blazing i guess i say this cause a blow dryer gets cherry red in like 10 seconds..i just put my clamp meter on and it only showed 2 amps on the the hot with the blow dryer running.. but i cut it off before it fried it.. how long should i leave it plugged in to get a proper reading? and what can be done to fix this problem? thank you all

 

[sorcival]

a hair dryer would factor into the equation sort of like this:

dryer watts = 120v/Amps

solve for amperes

watts/120v = amperes

sounds like a short in the wire itself, or too small of a wire for the load.
Normally, in a 120 volt 20 amp operation you would need a 12/3 load wire.
That would be a white wire, a black wire and a green wire.
The white and black wire is your active load current wires while the green wire is your
neutral or ground wire. Outdoor wire would be a 12/4 utilizing a bare copper wire in
addition to the three wires mentioned above...note that these are residential
specs on wires and not commercial or industrial wiring codes.
Wiring that is too small will overheat and cause shorting(sometimes) within the
interior of the wire, shile a wire size that is too large often allows too much drop
within the wire of v/a....ie : added resistance.

To answer your question concerning the duration of timing, the ampere reading would
be almost instantaneous as is the voltage reading.

Another way to state this is: as amperes increase voltage decrease

an ordinary light bulb of 60 watts on a 120 volt circuit would therefore measure at:

60 watts = 120 volt/ amperes
60w/120v = 1/2 amp

 

[tokerofdakill]

yes i know the 1600 watt hair dryer shuda been at 13.3 amps..the wire its 12/2 white black and a ground...so i know the wire is plenty big but is it to big?..also has no nicks or cuts or anything..this is basically a whole new 15 amp circuit that was put in the 100 amp sub panel which is strait main fed..the wire was already ran , i just moved it changed bearkers and the outlet.. bout to run a damn drop cord, just didnt want to.. wanted to keep all in the closet....thanks sorvical

 

[sorcival]

the only things left, considering the info on the new circuit situation is to re-check
ALL your connections at the circuit breaker, wiring recept, as well as visually examine
the wire for melted or browning areas.
Should all of these turn out correct and tight, then the only solution, failing the
troubleshoot is to begin replacing each component of the circuit in question until
the prob is solved.
Sorry I couldnt be more help.
Good luck
peace

 

[tokerofdakill]

the only things left, considering the info on the new circuit situation is to re-check
ALL your connections at the circuit breaker, wiring recept, as well as visually examine
the wire for melted or browning areas.
Should all of these turn out correct and tight, then the only solution, failing the
troubleshoot is to begin replacing each component of the circuit in question until
the prob is solved.
Sorry I couldnt be more help.
Good luck
peace

guess the only thing left to change is the wire huh? its cool thanks for all ur help.. but no there is no damage or burning on wires at breaker or outlet..and thank you all so much for all the help.. it will get fixed soon but in the mean time ya gotta do what ya gotta do..DROP CORD.. GOT IT UP AND RUNNING NOW

 

[RC1]

(yes amps are blazing i guess i say this cause a blow dryer gets cherry red in like 10 seconds..i just put my clamp meter on and it only showed 2 amps on the the hot with the blow dryer running..)

Toker: If the above is accurate then the voltage must be around 18 volts with the dryer on. Find a load with no fan in it (a floor heater, with no fan it won't burn up on low voltage) and plug it in and turn it on. Check the voltage, should be low. Now check the voltage at each junction working back toward the mains. You should find where the voltage is no longer low. The problem is between there and the last junction you checked.

Good luck

RC

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Toker,
Glad you're getting more help. I knew I was beyond the limit of my theoretical understanding.

One point that I really hope you check out. You say there was a 20 amp breaker on that wire. And it goes to a closet? And it's the only outlet on that circuit?

That just seems so unlikely in light of standard electrical installations. Please try and confirm that. I suppose someone could have decided they needed a closet light and added it later. It's just that if there are other sockets...the problem could be where you aren't looking.
ET

 

[madpenguin]

Pretty much all options have been covered here. I would be just as stumped as you and wind up running new wire. Has to be a short somewhere that's just not generating enough fault current to trip the breaker.

As far as multimeter testing goes..... You should always test from hot to neutral, hot to ground and even neutral to ground. 99.99% of the time it's redundant but then again, it never hurt anything. It would reveal a short described in the unlikely above scenario. Or it might even reveal a loose neutral on a multiwire branch circuit. You just never know so it's best to test all possible ways.

What kind of cable does this branch circuit use coming out of the breaker? Follow the black wire up to the knockout. If you've got a 12/3 (red wire) then that could explain things, and if you tested from hot to neutral and got 240v, then thats why your smoking appliances. Ugh... There's something to be said for being present when trouble shooting...

If all else fails, as has been said, run new wire.