Electrical help needed. Installing a Sentinel HPH-8

[HighBreed]

Greetings!
We need some help.
Im looking at installing a Sentinel HPH-8 controller.


http://growgps.com/powerexpansionandhidlighting.html
(last product)

http://growgps.com/HPH-8_instruction.pdf


We plan on hiring an electrition to do the work
but want to understand what its going to take and work something out.

Here are my questions.

My breaker panel has 208v breakers so is this three phase?
How would this affect the installation?

The sentinal needs a 50a double pole 240v breaker.
So the breaker would say 50a on each leg right?
One friend claims that a 30a/30a is 60a 240v but my other friend says that is a 30a 240v breaker not a 60a 240v.
So would a double pole breaker with 50a 120v and 50a 120v make 50a 240v or 100a 240v?
Me thinks 50a 240v but want to be completly sure.

---

Im hoping to have installed a couple recepticles next to the breaker panel.
From that I am hoping to have an extension cord long enough to go to the controller. (30')

Something like this
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/power-grip-heavy-duty-50a-extension-cord-30-ft-/37814

I see this one is four wire and the sentinal needs a three wire #6 gauge.
Any recommendations on a way to accomplish this?

The reason I would like this is because the first set up is temporary and we will be moving the controllers later.

---


Thank you for the help!
We greatly appreciate it!

 

[milehighmedical]

Two 50 amp at 120 v is one 50 amp at 240 v. I'm taking a class on this right now.

Amps X Volts = Watts

2 X 50 amp X 120 v = 12,000 watts

50 amp x 240 v = 12,000 watts

100 amp x 240 v = 24,000 watts

As you can see the first two are the same, the second one is double.

I'm sorry I can't answer all your questions. Good that you're hiring an electrician. Too many people take the wrong road when they reach that fork.

 

[madpenguin]

A 50A double pole breaker will only supply 50A @ 240v before it kicks. You can also manage 100A @ 120v on a 50A double pole breaker if you use it as a multiwire circuit but I suggest not doing that. Especially if you don't need 120v.

Yes, It sounds as if you are on a 120/208 wye 3 phase system. If you hook a double pole breaker onto that panel, Your only going to get 208v nominal, not 240v....

With a resistive load, not too big of a deal. With motors and inductive loads, it is a big deal. You need to run your equipment at the voltage it is rated for, especially if it's an inductive load.

 

[HighBreed]

Thank you both!
Realized each pole on the breaker is a seperate 30a 208v leg so its a 60a 208v breaker.
Got me a 6 gauge wire, connectd it to the controller and plugged it in.
Easy as pie

 

[madpenguin]

Thank you both!
Realized each pole on the breaker is a seperate 30a 208v leg so its a 60a 208v breaker.
Got me a 6 gauge wire, connectd it to the controller and plugged it in.
Easy as pie

It sounds as if your going back to the wrong way of thinking. If your on a 120/208 wye 3 phase system, Each pole will be 120v. If you measure the voltage potential between both wires, you will get 208v. If your breaker says 30A on the handle (even if it says it twice, one for each pole), your still only going to be able to draw 30A at 208v before the breaker kicks.

You could turn it into a multiwire branch circuit and actually squeeze 60A at 120v by using a shared neutral, but then you would have to be using 2 hots, a neutral and a ground, like 10/3 romex or whatnot.

If you know how to safely use a multimeter, measure the voltage between one hot wire and ground or neutral. That will tell you for sure what each "pole" will be at as far as voltage is concerned.

 

[sparkjumper]

Never add the amperage ratings on 2 or 3 pole breakers,whatever number is on each handle is the max amperage allowed,then you must take 80% of that number and that will be your actual load maximum.A 2 or 3 pole 50 A breaker will trip with the same amount of amperage as a single pole 50A breaker if that makes sense

 

[whatissixbynine]

.

 

[EvilTwin]

ok so if i am understanding this right, between what you said and what this random internet daemon said, seems like 3 phase should typically have double poles, one for each of the hot wires, but connected so that if either trip they both trip?

For a 220/240v breaker...you either use one that was built for that purpose and will have a wide trip/reset handle OR you can use two 110v breakers sie-by-sie ganged together with a metal pin that goes through both trip handles so that they'll trip together. Doing anything different and it's a danger...
ET

 

[madpenguin]

For a 220/240v breaker...you either use one that was built for that purpose and will have a wide trip/reset handle OR you can use two 110v breakers sie-by-sie ganged together with a metal pin that goes through both trip handles so that they'll trip together. Doing anything different and it's a danger...
ET

Even that's not allowed anymore (ganging 2 single pole breakers on opposite phases). You need to have an internal trip mechanism to ensure that both hot legs will be killed.

If you notice when a single pole breaker trips, it goes to the half-way point. It's neither in the "on" position or the "off" position. Therefore, your not guaranteed to have the other breaker forced to the off position if only one of the single poles trip...

ok so if i am understanding this right, between what you said and what this random internet daemon said, seems like 3 phase should typically have double poles, one for each of the hot wires, but connected so that if either trip they both trip?

It depends on whether your feeding a single phase load or a 3 phase load. A double pole breaker in a 3 phase setting is still considered a single phase load.

Take an office building for example. They are commonly fed with 120/208 wye. You have A phase, B phase and C phase. The voltage potential between any one phase and ground will be 120v. the voltage potential between any 2 phases will be 208 volts.

You'll have single pole breakers feeding receptacles. You'll have doble pole breakers feeding anything that runs at 208v, such as a hot water heater in the basement maybe. Then you'll have 3 pole breakers that are used to feed things like motors and what not. When using a 3 pole breaker, phase rotation comes into play and you have to hook the motor up correctly to the proper phase sequences or you'll damage the motor.

Eh... Anyway. You could also use a double pole breaker to supply 2 individual 120v circuits. This is commonly done in office settings. You'll have 12/3 MC cable attached to a double pole 20A breaker. 2 hot legs, a neutral and a ground. The neutral is shared but each hot leg is considered as a separate branch circuit. Those are called multiwire branch circuits.

3 phase can get a little tricky, especially with other systems that employ a high or wild leg. That's when you'll see a higher voltage on B phase to ground than you will with A or C phase to ground. A high leg is required to be identified at all accessible points by orange tape. If you see no orange tape but just about every third breaker slot is empty, then that should tell you that you might be dealing with a high leg system as well.

 

[sparkjumper]

Yea just to add on what the insane penguin said in 3 phase applications you can run a 4 wire like 24/4 mc cable and actually have 3 totally seperate circuits sharing the one neutral.This saves a lot on time and material sharing the neutral in applications like that.For the most part though we just work single phase 240V not using any neutral at all(Unless you're 120V of course).There is really only single phase and three phase,there is no such thing as two phase.

 

[HighBreed]

Thank you everyone for the help!
Going to take me sometime to understand it all
but the first thing I know is I was wrong
All good, just going to take me a minute before being able to have the controller power 8 lights.
For now 5 is good.
Again thank you everyone for your posts!
Now to get it all to soak in.