ro VS tap hydro?

[supervaca]

Originally Posted by EvilTwin

No aeration here either...
Some systems are inherently aerating in their action...E&F, top Drip, Aeroponics to name a few. Obviously you can't eliminate aeration with DWC.

Excess aeration can be a problem due to oxidation which can effect the chelators. Messes with ph too.

Right, with GH nutes no problems (FLora Series), but I've heard (and shorly maybe checked) Flora Nova doesn't like air in the res so muh; would be interested to know more about this quelators theory of yours....

And someone finally mentioned the real problem in tap water: incorrect balance between Ca/Mg, (normally much much more Ca around here than Mg), that gives us a nice Mg lockout in the middle of flowering...
Chlorine should not be an issue if you let the water stay for 48-72 hours, even if I know there are 2 kinds of chlorine compounds used in water "purifying" system, and one of the is not so good for plants, sorry for my bad English again...

Greetings from (not so ) sunny Spain

 

[fatigues]

The principal strength of RO water is that it starts you from a blank slate. You know what else you got in your water - which is essentially nothing with RO water. Under the general rule, it's not about taking out the bad things; it's about taking out the unknown things.

So RO is, generally, a method of increasing control over your grow. That's all it's meant to be, in a general sense.

In a specific sense, your particular water may or may not be problematic. If your grow is well dialed in with tap water - there is clearly no reason to change what you are doing.

 

[Uncle Remus]

RMH: EASY brother...I must have misread the thread and assumed we were talking DWC...I read quickly and mostly caught the "bubbler" reference...Didn't catch what hydro system you're using...My bad

 

[Uncle Remus]

Canna: TY my brother...Here's a few more hot off the press...Grapevine Sour Bubble:

 

[unoeye]

What do you guys think is the best way to put cal/mag back into your water? mixing a small amount of tap water in with it?

Any ideas would be great if there is a certain product provide a link if you dont mind please

 

[SOTF420]

RO water is a good place to start for any new grower to prevent complications unless you have amazing tap water to begin with that is under 200 ppm and near neutral PH.

Top quality hydro ferts like GH or Advanced Nutrients lines work perfect with RO water and have minimal PH drift and I have not seen noticeable cal/mag deficiencies with any of them ever using RO. You need to start with a "clean slate" or whatever ratios you think you are achieving are going to be signifigantly different with tap water, not to mention the fluoride and chlorine (or chloramine) in it along with all kinds of other nasty shit plants don't like.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

RMH: EASY brother...

Easy? lol


Uncle Ream-us,,,, peers you have a nice garden too!

My garden is in rockwool and I'm doing e&f - so aireation usually isn't an issue. - this method seems to have fewer problems with root/res temps too. Nutes are PBP.


Goes to show - more than one way to harvest henious buddage.

This is basicall my second hydro run - I'm still reading a lot - adjusting a little - but I do gotta say - IT WORKS PRETTY WELL! (For me at least)

Now where did I put that bong?????

 

[Spanishwilly]

The Carbonates in Tap water keep the pH high and their buffering action keeps it stable, if you take them out using RO, you have to put them back in again in the form of expensive Cal Mag nad the pH will be less stable. Running part RO is meant to work well, but, even with crap Spanish municipal water, I have never been tempted to go RO. I had a good 30 minute chat with Mr GHE all about RO last year and he said it is a fad best avoided. I had been suckered into the "take out the crap, add in pure food" angle and spent some time looking into it, eventually decided to leave well alone for now. When I have a nice stable "Lab" setup, I may give it a little test, but I would never get a Newbie to run with RO water unless it was totally necessary.

Bubblers can affect pH as the increased Oxygen can feed some bacteria that shit out high pH shit that raises the pH.... so take care and keep a close eye on it all, especially, even more so, with a new system.

I do want an RO unit however, they are meant to be good to use for Ice Hash making and possibly also for Flushing.....

Do you have crazy high PH as well? I'm down in Andalucia and it's ridiculous.

 

[SKUNK420]

Right, with GH nutes no problems (FLora Series), but I've heard (and shorly maybe checked) Flora Nova doesn't like air in the res so muh; would be interested to know more about this quelators theory of yours....

And someone finally mentioned the real problem in tap water: incorrect balance between Ca/Mg, (normally much much more Ca around here than Mg), that gives us a nice Mg lockout in the middle of flowering...
Chlorine should not be an issue if you let the water stay for 48-72 hours, even if I know there are 2 kinds of chlorine compounds used in water "purifying" system, and one of the is not so good for plants, sorry for my bad English again...

Greetings from (not so ) sunny Spain

lol here's your check...j/k just a comment
I have used both GH Flora Series and FNB in dwc and flood & drian w/airstone in res. and I get the same pH shift whether I'm using tap or r/o. I've never had any problems with aerating FNB either, but I also don't use a lot of supplements and if I do I stick to GH.

I have six 27 ga. dwc tubs of Super Silver Haze fed tap water w/ FNB nutrients, Botanicare cal/mag when needed, & liq. koolbloom
Tubs 1 & 2 have 1 big plant each w/12 ga. of water
Tubs 3 & 4 have 8 sm/mid size each w/14 ga. of water
Tubs 5 has 2 mid/big w/14 ga. of water
Tub 6 has 2 mid/big in it. w/14 ga. of water
I just did a water change and checked pH before dumping the water. The pH was different in each tub, though not by much. The pH in tubs 1 & 2 was down from starting pH of 5.7 while the others were up. So back to my original opinion depending on how fast your plants are growing and other factors will determine whether your pH goes up or down.

edit update: True Supervaca that's why I did make sure to say opinion. I added and other factors to update my post. Thanks.

 

[supervaca]

@spanishwilly :: I'm in Andalucia, too.. 234 ppm, 6.8 PH , not so bad; but it can be MUCH worse, a little km. away fom here... like 400 ppm and 7.4 my friend.. It changes lots , too, in summer/winter; in summer lots of tourists around, so the town hall changes the supply from deposit to de-salinization plants, and water gets MUCH worse in summer...

@SKUNK420 : I agree with you, here just hammerhad+gh flora (G/M/B) series+diamod nectar+zym and that's all...
I can see no difference in PH buffering with RO/tap, too...and for sure, growing of your plants has to do lots with PH , but it is not the only varible in the ecuation, of course...still would like to hear more about this quelates/O2 stuff, sounds weird to me ...... I will ask my Guru
@fatigues: you are completely RIGHT,mate, this is the real point with RO, CONTROL; just you exactly know how much Ca/Mg you have in your res...

 

[EvilTwin]

...still would like to hear more about this quelates/O2 stuff, sounds weird to me ...

SV...I'm the one who mentioned the chelators. I'm afraid that I can't pin down my source very accurately. It was in an AN newsletter almost two years ago. The short article mentioned that excessive aeration could damage chelators causing the chelated nutrient to seperate and allowing it to combine with other nutrients. Iron being the most problem. They suggested minimal aeration...just enough to gently ripple the surface and not necessarily continuous.
ET

 

[supervaca]

SV...I'm the one who mentioned the chelators. I'm afraid that I can't pin down my source very accurately. It was in an AN newsletter almost two years ago. The short article mentioned that excessive aeration could damage chelators causing the chelated nutrient to seperate and allowing it to combine with other nutrients. Iron being the most problem. They suggested minimal aeration...just enough to gently ripple the surface and not necessarily continuous.
ET

Thanks for the reply, EvilT; I am interested in this... as I know GH as working on this all this years, getting quelates that don't get oxidated in the res, without interfering in the ionic field of the NS; as they say, with latest formulations thay obtained it ; and from this experience they made GH better and developed GH Flora Nova, putting quelates & humics together in 1 bottle stable and without degradation...
I will ask more knowledged people ,speacially in GH form., and post the answers

 

[EvilTwin]

Very interesting SV,
That would certainly be an advantage for GH. I wonder if that's part of why their one part Maxi line is successful...super-chelators.

Looking forward to the results of your quest for information...
ET

 

[ogatec]

i went back to tap water in my ez cloner just to see wha would happen. (having slime problems), blah! what a nightmare. reminds me of why i like my ro so much. ph keeps rising no matter how much ph down i dump in. ro keeps things much more stable.

 

[laserbrn]

I have ALWAYS used RO. Until I started flowering my last batch. I switched to tap because I don't have an RO filter in home and I was purchasing RO water. I just didn't want to deal with it anymore so I used tap water. I also wanted to know if it would make a difference. It didn't. The plants flowered just fine and they look just as awesome as the batch I ran right before them with RO water.

I did start my new seedlings on tap water and they immediately showed MG lockout and considering they don't have any nutrients in the water I'm going to assume it's the tap water f*in with them. My tap water is about 540ppm right outta the faucet so I'm thinking they can't take that shit. I went and bought about 50 gallons of RO and I'll use it until it's gone and switch them to tap water. Hopefully they will be off and running without any problem by then and they should be sturdy enough to hold up to a little tap water.

 

[CaptainTrips]

If you started them on tap water in 500 ppm and didn't adjust for ph, that could be one reason for a problem, although I start seeds in ph 7.6+ water and they always do fine, but my water is under 200ppm. Your is probably a lot higher though.

 

[laserbrn]

I adjusted the ph to 6.2, it's just the Ca in the water. I'm about 90% sure and about 10% willing to find out by continuing to use it. I've switched the res to RO and watered them a couple of times.

 

[THINKING GREEN]

i have talked to a few people since i posted this thread, and they told me the best way to go in hydro is ro. they also told me that i really dosn't really matter as much when you grow soil. they said the using tap is like a box of chocolates you never know what your gunna get.lololololololol.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

I grew in dirt for a LONG time,,,

Just finnished my first hydro harvest -

Wana buy some dirt?

 

[supervaca]

@laserbrn : You can bet your pants and be 99.9% sure, is a Mg lockout becouse of too much Ca in the water (that is what I said first, Ca/Mag is UNBALANCED In tap water, here we are getting the same problems with seedlings and plants over 4th week of flowering).
I would use a pinch of Epson and take PH to 5.4 to allow maximum Mg intake and minimum Ca .... We are experts on the matter with the shi**y water we have round here
(Better than 6.2 I would say)---
There are nice Nutes absorbtion tables for different PH ranges, I attach you one:

If you ever grew in coco, you know what I mean ...

@EvilT:I will see this guy this weekend, to have a nice talk to him about, and will post here what he has to say, etc ... he knows GH form. very well (he's the man...REALLY).

EDITED: I forgot WHERE I got this chart, from the forum, sorry, too much Critical .... If someone knows, ...just give credits to him ... (maybe was from one of Big Toke's posts?????)
Sorry for my terrible english again..