Should pot be patented?

[Kola Radical]

They're gonna play hell monopolizing something growing in my closet. I believe it is too late to control it that far because it's basically a weed and grows almost anywhere in the world.

It would be like trying to monopolize the Dandelion plant. They'd have to kill every green thing on earth.

Global warming could do it though.

 

[fatigues]

Scary Stuff Here Yikes

I recognize that you did not write this article, and it was instead written by a participant in the litigation.

It is, however, an inaccurate and biased report of what happened in that case. The author downplays a critical piece of evidence.

...but because they had found some GMO canola plants in the ditch along my field, I had infringed their patent. That is the basis on which the case went to the Federal Court of Canada.

In fact, the court found that between 95% and 98% of the entire crop on the farmer's land contained the genetically modified genes. The opinion evidence presented at trial was that the chances of this contamination resulting from other than deliberate selection by the defendant farmer was remote at best.

While Mosanto did not prove that the farmer deliberately cultivated the Mosanto seed, they did not have to. Intention to violate a patent is not required under the Patent Act.

The evidence was very clear that the farmer's explanation that somebody else's seed "contaminated their crop" was evidence which was regarded as less than truthful - and with good reason. That was an important fact upon which the Farmer's entitlement to costs throughout the litigation would hang.

In fact, despite upholding the patent claim, the Supreme Court of Canada held that as there were no profits realized, Mostanto was entitled to nothing. Nevertheless, in a highly unusual move, both parties were ordered to bear their own legal costs throughout. That result concerning costs was also, clearly, motivated by reason of the Supreme Court of Canada's skepticism of the farmer's claim that it was all "accidental". The Supreme Court did not buy that excuse at all.

While the fact of the patentability of the canola seed was not at issue in the Mosanto case (the farmer could have challenged the patent but chose not to) , it was determined later in 2004 in the case of Harvard College v. Canada (Commissioner of Patents) that higher life forms were not covered by the Patent Act, as drafted, in Canada. In the United States, the law is otherwise.

There is, however, a specific federal statue in Canada which protects the IP of breeders of plants and gives them certain rights which, while less draconian than a patent, still protects most of their commercial interests. The statute is called the Plant Breeder's Rights Act.

In the case determined in that article you cite, Mosanto did not rely upon that Act as plaintiff. Mosanto was purely a patent case.

Short strokes: relying upon one party's view of litigation rarely provides an accurate and unbiased view of the facts as accepted by the court. In this case, given that 98% or so of his crop contained the modified gene, it was clear that the court was extremely skeptical of the farmer's claim that he never intended to violate Mosanto's patent.

Even still, the court did not require the farmer to pay Mosanto anything (as the farmer realized no profits that would have been attributable to the patent) but did require the farmer to foot the bill for his own legal costs throughout nothwithstanding the fact that the farmer ultimately won the case. That's judicial code for: We're letting you off the hook, but we still think you're a damned liar, Mr. Farmer. In case you think we didn't notice you probably lied - we did notice. You can pay your own lawyer's bill as punishment for that conduct.

 

[Pythagllio]

Can you clone plants grown from Monsanto seeds?

Anyway, they've been patenting plant varieties for a lot longer than GM seeds have been available.

The Plant Patent Act was passed in 1930. But interestingly enough, it seems they've excluded cannabis, so you can quit fretting. Take a look and see if I'm reading that correctly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Patent_Act_of_1930

 

[MadBuddhaAbuser]

interesting point for theoretical discussion

so say you selectively bred over for generations for a particular trait, i.e. mold resistance, you would end up (if it worked) with a plant who gene was switched on for mold killing(for example i dont know what the actual genes would be) and some company just genetically switched that gene on in a generation or two, how would you be able to prove that the two of you independently reached this same genetic place. like they would say "ours has gene 5 switched on and so does yours pay up", how would the law determine this.

and doesn't marlboro already have trademarks on panama red and acapulco gold?

 

[farmerred]

Big pharma already has disease specific strains ready to hit the market when it's to their advantage. If not, they are all fucktards. Still their need to protect their genetics will be their downfall. I wouldn't touch their genetics with a ten foot pole, cuz more likely than not, they will dominate in any cross and destroy all genetic diversity in the cannabis species. Imagine pollen with terminating gene sequences getting loose from a 100 acre big pharma plot and destroying the heirloom plot downwind. If you value your genes, back them up and hold them in seed til after pharma makes their move to the farm. They will still make more money than they need to.

 

[johnnyla]

watch that movie. monsanto creates seeds you can only grow once. their offspring will not bear fruit. you are basicaly growing sterilized food and have to buy new seeds each year.

what i don't understand then, is why can't someone just take a crop duster and dust monsantos crop with some bunk pollen and totally fuck their crop?

i'm not suggesting someone do this but it would be cool if someone did. fuck Monsanto.

 

[Anima]

You can't get a patent on a plant.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Monsanto is evil. GMO seeds that are patented create debtor slave farmers who barely survive. Not to mention it's bad for the enviroment. Food\Marijuana\Water\Air should now and always be fundamental human rights. NO ONE should own life. Period. Patenting life is wrong on so many levels. Just another example of Capitalism run amok. What next a patented child?

 

[NUG-JUG]

You can't get a patent on a plant.

Oh yea ask Monsanto. http://nfb.ca/film/monsanto-trailer/

 

[johnnyla]

You can't get a patent on a plant.

in Canada you cannot.

In the United States and EU you can.

 

[NUG-JUG]

in Canada you cannot.

In the United States and EU you can.

Monsanto sells it's patented Genetically Modified seeds in Canada. the US, and anywhere else they can promote their life destroying corporate schemes.

 

[farmerred]

Evil is a construction of the mind. Greed is not. People with money don't Have to think about anything except money. Think of the children......'s children.......'s children. How will they get stoned. Seriously having a small number of people in charge of so much can never bode well for small groups of people with slightly different stomachs. And Everybody is composed of small groups of people, no two stomachs alike. Nature is the best laboratory since it's been operating flawlessly for a long f****ng time. That said, the term genetically modified needs to come under some scrutiny here. If a strain cannot survive even a decade in nature, it has no business existing therein. If it would become invasive, it likewise should not be allowed to exist. Remember the Victory Gardens? What kind of animal..i mean human... can't feed itself anyway. A fat one.

 

[9Lives]

Want to blame someone ? Blame the dumb consumer. Corporations like Monsanto would have SHIT if people just demanded non GMO products or GMOs to be labelled. Where i'm from all GM crops must be labelled as such!

Buy organic..or don't...your choice..

I fucking hate when people talk corporations are EVIL and GREEDY and bla bla bla...STUP FUCKING GIVING THEM MONEY!!! Are they taking your money at gunpoint ? No ? WTF are you complaining about then. Consumers are just so damn dumb i honestly don't even feel sorry for the stupid fucks of this world.

 

[headband 707]

9lives everything you eat has been grown by Monsanto's seeds...If I was a farmer and I knew they were going to do this I would have saved my seeds. Many farmers were taken by surprise with these assholes which is why they have such a bad name. I don't think anyone wanted to be taken like this. I think this company did it before the farmer knew how to stop them. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the media and did their whisle blowing on the company.Now that they are finding black liver spots in mice that eat the GMF does this make us stupid? No, just victims of corprate greed.Had this info been available to them don't you think they would have saved their seeds that weren't from Monsantos? peace out Headband707

 

[chef]

Monsanto are some seriously evil bastards IMO, there's pages of similar links, but...
http://www.sentienttimes.com/09/June_July_09/doctors.html

Been following this Roundup immune crap for years, as well as GMO's in general.
I've seen others like the above seed case with other crops too. A corn farmer I specifically recall.
There are already traces of GMO varieties in everything from TacoBell taco shells to everyday grocery store items from cross pollination, errr... pollution. That shit has gotta stop now! Way to go EU

As far as information goes...These fuckers have insulated themselves from even as much as public scrutiny, thru actual laws, NDA's & clauses in their contracts that are un fkin believable.
If there's a lack of smarts here, its the farmers who even thought of running Monsanto seed, GMO/RoundupReady or not, let alone the fkin mooks that actually signed'em. 100% greed is all it was/is!
I do love seeing greedy fucks left all butthurt n all, but these repercussions are fkin SCARY!

I also think GMO's are 100% to blame for the honeybee problem, that's just my own theory tho. Another REALLY SCARY topic, if the Bees died off? The world would be in total meltdown within weeks...

 

[nomaad]

WE need to get some strains patented, then released into the public domain.

Something like the licensing used for free software/freeware. GPL, BSD etc.
Been thinking about this for awhile now.

EXACTLY. Been working on the same thing. Creative Commons type user license is the most interesting to me.

My good friend is about to take the CA bar exam. She interned with and accepted an offer with a major international firm that specializes in intellectual property lawand is perfectly suited to head the legal side of this project... we go way back and this will be a pro bono project for her.

Any plant geneticists out there?

I'm seriously committed to this project and interested in any help anyone has to offer. PM.

 

[fatigues]

For those who do not understand what "Roundup" is, a brief explanation is necessary:

The Roundup line is a genetically modified canola seed. The seed has had a gene spliced into it by research scientists at the seed breeder's labroatories. The gene makes the canola seed highly resistant to an herbicide called "Roundup".

To go along with their seed, Mosanto also sells "Roundup - the herbicide".

They are intended to be used together. This means that the farmer plants the Roundup resistant crop, and then uses Roundup as an herbicide to maintain the crop in the field and keep other weeds and plants out of his canola crop.

In the end, this results in an easier to maintain crop with a far higher overall yield. That's why farmers use it: It makes them more money. The underlying canola oil produced by the seed has not been changed - but they get more of it.

There are a lot of twitchy comments made about "GM" this and that here, as if they were some inherently evil or vile modifications to the underlying plant. Similar comments are made with respect to "organic" foods, as if that made such plants and crops inherently more virtuous.

Well, that's a point of view, isn't it?

My point: when someone begins their assessment of agriculture beginning from a philosophical standpoint that any modification to the genetics of the plant is inherently WRONG, and that use of any herbicides, pesticides, or chemical fertilizers is also inherently WRONG, they have drawn a very bright line in the sand. They are speaking now not from a necessarily scientifically rational point of view, but from a particular political point of view. The statements reflects their underlying mores, judgments and values.

That's fine and I'm not saying that people are not entitled to have those judgments and values. I'm not saying that those judgments and values are necessarily wrong, either. They may well be right. But they might be wrong, too.

So when people start throwing out comments and judgments as statements of fact which are, in large part, actually based on statements of opinion and their own personal values, the issue becomes quickly clouded.

Put into the context of cannabis, let's say that it's fifteen years in the future and there has been full legalization. Farmers are growing dozens of acres of feminized seed in soil. Competition is stiff and the price of MJ is not even REMOTELY what it is today. These farmers are lucky to get $35 a pound. With fuel and labor costs tight, and seed costs expensive, these farmers need to do everything they can to improve their yields and feed their families.

If there was a "roundup version" of that otherwise kick ass strain of cannabis which millions of people want to buy - and the farmer wanted to use the roundup version of the strain to increase his yield and feed his family - are you suggesting that Mosanto - or some other research lab that went to the trouble and great expense of genetically modifying that seed to enable the farmer to harvest more bud, should not have a right to be compensated for it?

Because if that's your point of view - you are certainly entitled to it. But if you think that there are not others here who will disagree or take the side of the Mosantos of the world? I assure you: guess again.

 

[chef]

My views on GMO's comes from lots of things ending up dead after eating GMO feedstock & the mounting scientific evidence that the byproducts of GMO's (oils, meals etc.) are very possibly already responsible for the onset of all kinds of insidious diseases in the general population.
The jury hasn't even been summoned on this one yet...
Interesting read...
http://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/gmo-cotton/

Right on Nomaad, it'll throw a serious stick in their spokes lol PM'd ya

 

[nomaad]

I fucking hate when people talk corporations are EVIL and GREEDY and bla bla bla...STUP FUCKING GIVING THEM MONEY!!! Are they taking your money at gunpoint ? No ? WTF are you complaining about then. Consumers are just so damn dumb i honestly don't even feel sorry for the stupid fucks of this world.

this is disingenuous to a degree. I agree that consumers have given power to these corporations, but until the late 70's people actually believed in these corporations as they provided most of what they consumed AND (pre globilization, outsourcing, offshoring, etc) had provided most of, and the best of the jobs available in the country... along with union wages, health insurance and retirement benefits.

Pretty easy to sell the products from the comapny store when the company has been advertising itself as the benevolent entity that it was (but resented having to be). And sell those products they did. Until the amount of choice in the marketplace was diminished, consumers were made more stupid, unions and pensions were eradicated in favor of outsourcing to the third world. At this point REAL wages (that account for inflation and cost of living increases) have not increased since the 70's years and the cost of living has gone up significantly. American consumer families have held on by taking on a second income, and by adding that second income (and losing mom's that stay at home... not to be sexist, but a parent of any sex at home who is there for the kids instead of a TV is a good thing that barely exists in this country anymore) they have also reduced the amount of TIME available for bargain hunting at mom and pop shops and making more meals from scratch from ingredients sourced at local independent farms and markets.

In some places the only option is a Walmart. Sure, communities could band together to overcome these things, but the last 30 years of capitalism have made them too busy, or too stupid, or too lazy to overcome the paradigm.

And people "demanding" things is not as simple as it sounds (though it sounds AWESOME to me)... politics is a big game with extremely stacked odds. The people need to be very organized and very smart to work this game to their advantage. It isn't impossible, but we have now seen clearly that even the active left is stupid enough to have had Obama marketed to them. That presidential victory is being hailed as the most successful advertising coup in history. Not so much as political victory... its been something of a disaster for the left leaning dems, actually... but it showed that even the grassroots liberal left who would not have called themselves members of the Democrat party could be sold a handsome black man with a great smile who did not really uphold their beliefs, but did have a nice slogan.

More than half the country wants free health care. We will not have it. Why? Not because people aren't demanding it... but because people are powerless against the kind of money and lobbying that goes on against their interests AND are incapable of effectively organizing against it in the numbers required because they are busy, dumb, lazy and highly susceptible to the power of advertising.

I'm not saying this to insult anybody... but this is the state of affairs in this country. The opposition needs to step it the fuck up and organize or this country is eventually going to make the "third world" (where a higher percentage of people who drive cars know how to fix cars -for example) look like a paradise.

 

[hilbie]

who did uncletoma bobamo place as the us head of agriculture, tom vilsack, monsanto croney. business as usual. i recommend all conserned with health to eat as much wild crafted organic food as u can, bee pollen, organic honey, spirilina, raw cacao etc etc, there working on a new food cleanliness act called the safe food advancement act or some bs like it, trying to ruin the organic industry for good, eventually the monsanto food will make u so sick youll need there vacine or youll be unable to eat anything since everything will be there toxic garbage, scary but a real possiblity from theese sick fucks.

cheff great point on the honey bee problem, ive realized this for some time-