Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

[Machine Elf]

Why the hell did you go to school here if we are all living on a pile of mold?

Because you do not say no when an Ivy league school accepts you on scholarship!

Why do people from other countries FLOCK here?

It is not just the USA they flock to. And they flock to these countries because of the severe economic disparity within their own country and chance to make it within a system that is at least less corrupt than their own. Though what they find often times when they do come to places like the USA and the UK is that their situation does not improve much. Perhaps they can get better housing and enjoy running water and a higher degree of sanitation by living in the USA or some European countries but still they have the issue of becoming a slave worker making even less than the minimal wages required to be paid by law.

We have problems, but you can't blame them on the American people. There is deep corruption in politics and in special interest groups. The majority of American people are great people and no, we don't all have plasma screens in our bathrooms.

How ignorant can you be?

I am trolling the trolls. Please let the professionals handle this ok?

American policy, might makes right, indeed runs much of the world, and what it can't, they certainly try. The people in power within the American government are able to proceed with this kind of business as usual because the American people A) are too ignorant to find out what is going on. B) believe their scum bag leaders when they lie to their faces C) don't do anything to vote the problem people out of office and ensure their system does not become corrupt as it has.

The people of America have all the ability to change the system if they want. The top 1% of elites have marginalized the public's knowledge of this power to change the system through the use of voting. I would say they have even gone so far as to rig elections within the system to ensure their power scheme, knowing they could suppress any finding of wrongdoing within the media and political arena.

This is why again I say I have no sympathy.

The fact is America is a significant part of this world, as are other countries. We contribute a lot to the advancement of human kind. I'm not saying we don't supply problems either, but what country doesn't?

I agree, any country can levy its share of problems upon the rest. The issue is that America indeed levies so much more than the rest often times. Sometimes the proportion is so great that all others combined do not add up to America's total.

I love how you think we have been riding the backs of others.
That made me lol.

You don't think so? Hm.

Why is it you find American drug policy and American DEA in all parts of the world? What business does American military backed DEA have in countries like Brazil, Peru, Columbia? The mess in the middle east, and I'm not talking just the past 10 years, more like the past 60, that has culminated in... I am sure you know where that goes. USA corporations move into countries and exploit their resources and people for huge profits

Then they sell those cheaply made tinker toys to fat American asses at huge premiums.

I guess riding the backs was too subtle a euphemism. Perhaps I should have said murdering, terrorizing, pillaging, raping, and polluting the very same people American policy claims to desire to help and free through the wonders of democracy. Democrazy is more like it!

 

[ItsGrowTime]

"Methinks thou doth protest too much." - 'Hamlet' by William Shakespeare

 

[SpasticGramps]

I can relate to some of what you are saying about the government. We unjustly and ignorantly try to force our values on others. A lot of that is natural culture exportation. As far as your "global warming" argument. Sorry dude.

Machine Elf

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Yes why would you? OH because it proves you wrong yes that!

Saying this shows you definitely did not read the documents! You are a fucking liar plain and simple!!!

The summary of the worst emails a few posts back are entirely accurate. Why all the cursing and avoiding the issue of the content of the emails? You sound like you're personally hurt that your AGW religious idols are turning out to be nothing but petty scammers. Some people refused to believe Jimmy Swaggart was a con-man too...I guess some people just never learn.

Yes, you are insane. Your own rambling nonsense proves it!

Perhaps drugs are not for you after all.

You haven't refuted any of the email contents. You're just attacking people, nothing more. You have so much time to type out the long winded replies so why not take that summary of emails above and explain to us how they're inaccurate or we're misunderstanding the contents? Debate the issue. Personal attacks like that just show you don't have anything to refute the contents so you're trying to derail the issue itself.

You are living in denial and can not comprehend basic science. This is evident.

Stop trolling, its pathetic!

Says the 100 post newbie from some socialist nanny-state country with nary a growing related post in your history. You only post on political issues, so who is the troll here? Give me a break comrade. You are free to pay all the taxes to global government and banker masters that you want to "save the planet". Leave my country and my money out of it.

You want basic observable science? How about you explain to me why my cannabis plants love CO2 levels 4 times higher than the current "OMGZ WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" levels of 400ppm? My plants thrive at 1500-1600ppm. Why is that? That indicates that there have been periods of much higher CO2 in the Earth's history and the plants evolved accordingly. And guess what? Not a single SUV or Chinese factory had anything to do with it. So basic observable science tells me that CO2 changes and minor temperature fluctuations are natural phenomenon. The notion that some SUVs and factories are the problem, not the sun or other natural occurences, is an invention of only 10 years ago.

I get the feeling you're a young kid because you obviously don't remember all the "eco-scare tactics" that have been pushed before and never materialized into anything. I remember the "Hole in the Ozone Layer" in the 80s that was going to give us all horrible skin cancer by 2000. Turns out it was another case of bogus misleading "science" meant to sell products created by the "scientists" themselves. Hmm...sounds familiar. I remember how in the 90s all of the Amazon rain forests would be gone by the mid 2000's if we didn't *act now*. What ever happened with that? Oh yeah, the oil companies bought up all the land to "protect" it then quietly turned it into drilling fields. Such humanitarians they are. There's more examples if you want more. Your beef is with international corporations and bankers that control EVERYTHING, including the US government, not with Americans. We have as little control as you do.
Let's go ahead and just say that this planet has been here for a very long time and will be here a long time after we're gone. If I may quote George Carlin, "Just another failed experiment." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOOc5yiIWkg

ETA: A searchable database of all the emails here: http://www.anelegantchaos.org/ Plug in whatever words you want.

Because you do not say no when an Ivy league school accepts you on scholarship!

And that, my friends, is all you need to know about Machine Elf. Another Elitist commie in training, practicing on ICMag how to funnel more of other people's money into his own pocket.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Did I already mention....

Machine Elf

Your insults in lieu of argument get you....

Machine Elf

 

[Machine Elf]

What was it I quoted before?

Oh yes, "Your denial is beneath you. And thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you".

explain to us how they're inaccurate or we're misunderstanding the contents?

Why ask me when you can read for yourself what the scientists in question had to say about the email hack.
Oh you dismissed what they said when I posted it because you are insane and want to see a conspiracy when there is clearly not. Good job!

You did not read the emails and I am not going over numerous paragraphs of text where morons take out of context statements and use their ignorance of science to try and deny fact.

Got way better things to do pal

Debate the issue.

There is no debate when you lie and post entire falsehoods concerning the issues.

Making up so called "facts" and claiming they are now real dismantles your position from the beginning.

Says the 100 post newbie

Quality over quantity junior.

You only post on political issues

Shows you haven't been reading. I do not believe in presenting arguments without rigorous testing and/or valuable data to present, especially where I have none for lack of production of my own data. But I can comment on biological matters I am aware of and am interested in, and one can see this in my posts. Cannabis is a highly beneficial crop in many aspects, it tarnishes your reputation to want to believe that its sole value be relegated to "lets get fucked up dude".

How about you explain to me why my cannabis plants love CO2 levels

Because SOME plants can tolerate higher levels of CO2, and only under optimal conditions mind you. How will cannabis use all that CO2 outdoors when it is suffering from nutrient deficiency due to poor soils, drooping and burning from drought, broken stalks from inclement weather, flooding from torrential rains after the 3 weeks of drought, temperatures too hot for it to photosynthesize at optimal levels, etc., etc.

you obviously don't remember all the "eco-scare tactics"

Yeah okay, except that it was I who pointed those "eco scares" out to everyone in the first place along side debunking your ridiculous postulations concerning them. That was pages ago.

You haven't been reading. Please try and keep up okay because we are going to move along quick

The ozone hole was in fact a large problem. And people fixed the problem through legislation curbing the use of CFCs. I don't know what the hell you are blabbering about with skin products. Tell that to all those people who died of melanoma who were begging for products to protect them from the incoming radiation from the ozone hole. No you don't hear or give a fuck about them because they didn't live in the USA.
No one said the rain forests would be gone, stop spewing complete nonsense you fear mongering buffoon. The rain forests ARE in dire straights, and in need of immediate attention due to clear cutting practices and as you mentioned, oil companies and drilling!
Those same guys, they are lying to YOU about global warming, and you are to blind to see it! Unbelievable!

You once again don't know what you are talking about.

You get no points for trolling, and may god have mercy on your soul.

not with Americans. We have as little control as you do.

Again, this is incorrect. Yes I am against the bankers, but I am against the people as well, for it is the people who let them stay in power. It is the people who don't vote them out of office, or even start a revolution if they have to. It is the people who gobble up corporate propaganda and sit idly by why those same groups shit down their throats. You want to know what is making people sick it is not mercury in the vaccines it is environmental pollution from the air, land, and water.

Another Elitist commie in training, practicing on ICMag how to funnel more of other people's money into his own pocket.

Yes that's right, only rich elitists go to Ivy league schools you can't actually try very hard and be very lucky to get in one its all a big conspiracy yes sir you have it all figured out!

I think that's all we need to know about itsgrowtime on ICmag; calls people commies, purports ludicrous conspiracy theories and pseudo scientific delusion.. Are you a McCarthyist or just Rush Limbaugh's biggest fan?

 

[Machine Elf]

I am glad stupidly large trolling pictures are used as arguments in lieu of actual facts and data on ICmag. Good job kid your mother must be proud

 

[SpasticGramps]

I am glad stupidly large trolling pictures are used as arguments in lieu of actual facts and data on ICmag. Good job kid your mother must be proud

My mommy is proud of me. I'm a winner. She said so. See.

*insert trolling picture here*

 

[SpasticGramps]

BTW, disregarding that some of those emails are subverting the scientific method is being intellectually dishonest IMO.

 

[cashmunny]

T Another Elitist commie in training, practicing on ICMag how to funnel more of other people's money into his own pocket.

Who the hell calls anyone a commie anymore?
It's like calling a black person colored. If it weren't so vicious it would be quaint.

You're stuck in the fifties. Get with the program, the new devil in town is socialism. It's got all the right wing nutjobs quaking in their boots like an altar boy alone in the rectory with the drunk priest.

 

[Machine Elf]

BTW, disregarding that some of those emails are subverting the scientific method is being intellectually dishonest IMO.

They do not subvert the scientific method, they reinforce it.

As I have previously stated nothing in the emails is indicative of a conspiracy, rather (some) of it is normal bantering between scientists about problems with models and how to make them more accurate or ways to gather better data. Some is just normal emails. There is a PDF on ways to get the public more aware of climate science.

Everything is totally harmless and any kind of claim of conspiracy or misrepresentation only once again comes from the deniers too stupid to see the forest through the trees. Taking things out of context as deniers here have only shows the futility of their claims.

I can't stop laughing with that last picture. Wow.

 

[Machine Elf]

Ah yes socialism. Caring and helping people couldn't be more evil

 

[cashmunny]

Ah yes socialism. Caring and helping people couldn't be more evil

Remember, the right wing is clinically insane. So you don't have to get mad at them. They're like a rabid dog. They belong in cages, or sequestered somewhere...like Texas. The heat and humidity ought to suit their temperment just fine. Plus if we're lucky they'll secede from the union.

 

[johnnyla]

Excellent! See now we can talk, because you are willing to read and discuss. I like that in a person!



Actually it is not just a simple conclusion, it is one that has been meted out through years of testing and data. You can go over the links I have provided that show this.

I wholeheartedly agree that a mirroring in effect does not necessarily imply causation. In fact we find it doesn't all the time and that in the past there have been many more dynamic processes at work when it comes to climate, such as orbital eccentricity, than just climate forcing via green house gasses. But we know how and when these processes happen. Earth's orbit is not increasing in eccentricity. The sun is not shifting in output and making the earth warmer. Sunspots do not effect climate, but El Nino and La Nina do.

The temperature increase scientists had seen through the 20th century was known as the temperature anomaly, because it was not readily understood why the earth was increasing in temperature when we seemed to understand all these other climate factors, and we know they are not causing the appreciation. But scientists had their suspicions. With advancements in computer modeling and ability to take temperature and other weather data on a global scale, we now know the culprit behind the temperature anomaly, CO2 and green house gasses.

I suggest you read up on green house gasses, how they work, and how they can effect the environment. The physical properties of green house gasses has been well studied for over 100 years now. We know CO2 absorbs heat. I showed this when I posted a video that gave an in lab demonstration of FLIR footage of a tube filled with CO2 blocking the infrared heat being given off by a candle!

If there was no CO2 on the earth, none at all in the atmosphere, no green house gasses, the earth would be at least 60 degrees colder overall. That means any where you would go would be pretty much covered in ice.

In the same light given this fact, that CO2 and green house gas traps heat, and that we know humans are putting out more CO2 than the carbon sinks of the earth can swallow up, AND we have measured the rise in CO2 as we put it back into the atmosphere, does it not seem to logically follow that adding CO2 to the atmosphere will increase the global temperature? Of course it does. And this is exactly what we see both in global temperature and the physical manifestations: glacial loss, sea level rise to name two of the most prominent and well studied problems.



Again these are sheer misconceptions and lies from deniers, which I have pointed out before. We are not in a cooling cycle, and it was a conservative global warming denier who suggested we start calling global warming "climate change" so as to confuse people and make it sound less alarming than it really is.




Actually volcanic eruptions cause cooling. While some green house gasses are released, this is far overshadowed by the particulate matter such as soot and smoke and sulfurous compounds unleashed. It is well known that volcanic eruptions cool the earth, we have seen this in history repeatedly.

The problem is humans put so much CO2 and green house gasses into the atmosphere that it completely overcomes any cooling effect from all volcanic eruptions annually. That is in addition to the CO2 absorbed by plants and the earth's carbon sinks. The rate at which humans put CO2 back into the atmosphere is so large that all the planets' mechanisms for remediating CO2 and green house gasses are nearly maxed out.

Couple that with deforestation and desertification and acidification of the oceans (all factors that reduce the earth's ability to absorb CO2), safe to say we are probably fucked. Can we just not sit down for a week or do we have to get colo-rectal surgery is really what is in contention with scientists.



What else will help you further understand?

"If there was no CO2 on the earth, none at all in the atmosphere, no green house gasses, the earth would be at least 60 degrees colder overall."

there would be no vegetation if there was no CO2. WTF are you talking about?

we could all drive hummers if retards didn't breed like rats. have fun pushing for green taxes that will only hurt your family and friends and plug a tiny whole in a bucket with twenty other holes in them: i.e. population overload.

meaningful climate control will be meaningful when people begin considering CAP & TRADE on pro-creation. Do you really think that will happen, or will we all have to suffer a mass cull via War, Famine, and Disease. I think Big Brother is working on all three of those as we speak as it's not going to fly if we tell people they can't reproduce and you can't directly kill lots of people without being genocidal so it's going to be War, Famine, Disease.

Enjoy the end times. Politics are for politicians and sheep.

 

[Machine Elf]

I don't think it will matter, conservative pseudo science movements are everywhere in every city you can nearly go to. Even in places like Amsterdam and Montreal conservative forces have made a strong push to take over government.

The vocal minority has its strengths. They will come out in droves to vote when everyone else sits back and says "nah that won't happen we won't let it". They will lie and use every means possible to get their guy elected and to get their agenda pushed.

 

[Machine Elf]

there would be no vegetation if there was no CO2.

This assertion makes no sense. CO2 is readily found in the atmospheric contents of planets that have no vegetation (Venus comes to mind).

My argument pertained to the physical property of CO2 to absorb infrared radiation and has nothing to do with vegetation.

It is a mere fact of nature, if there were no green house gasses on earth, then the earth would be 60 degrees cooler, and thus largely unsupportable for life.

In the same vein an increase of green house gasses in the atmosphere will increase temperatures. Why? More gasses equals more absorption of infrared radiation.

we could all drive hummers if retards didn't breed like rats.

This is a obviously false assumption, but your general premise is correct in a way; that overpopulation as it is today is a problem in some respects. But this is only a problem because people are selfish and do not wish to take their own time and money housing, feeding, and caring for the needy people and populations of the world. There is no money in that.

I think some elites wish to control the population. I think others couldn't care less, and that others want a larger population as this equals more soldiers for their war efforts.

 

[johnnyla]

"there would be no vegetation if there was no CO2.
This assertion makes no sense. CO2 is readily found in the atmospheric contents of planets that have no vegetation (Venus comes to mind).
"

can you read sir? i said NO CO2=NO VEG.

are you and blue cop friends?

you don't sound logical and scientific. you sound like a pretentious butt plug.

just because a planet has no vegetation and no CO2 does not mean that a planet with no co2 has vegetation. take a community college class in logic or something.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Im still waiting for the refuting of the contents of the email. And no, I don't mean "it's misunderstood and you're too stupid to know it". That's a cop out.

Why ask me when you can read for yourself what the scientists in question had to say about the email hack.

Oh you dismissed what they said when I posted it because you are insane and want to see a conspiracy when there is clearly not. Good job!

You did not read the emails and I am not going over numerous paragraphs of text where morons take out of context statements and use their ignorance of science to try and deny fact.

Got way better things to do pal

I have read them. I posted the link to them here first. And the pdfs (loved the one about how to convert UK residents into AGW cult members). Even the insulting photoshopped images of those authorities skeptical of their claims. You'll just claim I don't know what Im talking about because you know that most people HAVEN'T read the contents.

There is no debate when you lie and post entire falsehoods concerning the issues.

Making up so called "facts" and claiming they are now real dismantles your position from the beginning.

Please cite where I "lied" or made up anything in this thread. Just once.

Quality over quantity junior.

Compare our rep levels comrade. This is a marijuana site, not an alarmist global warming fanatic site. I enjoy actually interacting with nature and plants and helping others to be better at it, while also providing them a product that helps ease the stress of everyday life, not spouting off on a website about how much smarter I am than everyone else and insulting those that disagree with me. You seem more suited to sitting under flourescent lights figuring out how to manipulate data to represent your views, instead of searching for the bigger truth or actively involving yourself in the nature you so claim to cherish. But Ivy League schools are notorious for their indoctrination curriculum of acting like you care for material gain, so I shouldn't be surprised that you feel and act superior than others. I'm starting to wonder if you don't have some personal connection to this issue. You do seem to be protesting a little too much and you've admitted you're a "scientist", went to an Ivy League elitist school and you're from some Euro country pushing much of this climate change nonsense. You wouldn't happen to be in the emails would ya?

Because SOME plants can tolerate higher levels of CO2, and only under optimal conditions mind you. How will cannabis use all that CO2 outdoors when it is suffering from nutrient deficiency due to poor soils, drooping and burning from drought, broken stalks from inclement weather, flooding from torrential rains after the 3 weeks of drought, temperatures too hot for it to photosynthesize at optimal levels, etc., etc.

I didn't say anything about nutrients or drought. A single data point showing that plants thrive in high CO2 environments, shows that the plant adapted to such levels in the past and is currently not growing optimally. Cannabis isn't the only one. Practically every temperate to tropical plant benefits from CO2 increases over current levels.

Yeah okay, except that it was I who pointed those "eco scares" out to everyone in the first place along side debunking your ridiculous postulations concerning them. That was pages ago.

Then don't you see the trend of trumped up eco-scares that never amount to anything except manners in which to enrichen international corporations? A comrade as smart as you should surely be familiar with Einstein's definition of insanity.

The ozone hole was in fact a large problem. And people fixed the problem through legislation curbing the use of CFCs.

And suddenly Dupont offered a replacement refrigerant and propellent to fix the problem! Then it turned out that Dupont "scientists" made up much of the panel that claimed aerosol cans were destroying the ozone. Then it turns out that the hole is seasonal and not permanent.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/blackstock5.html

I don't know what the hell you are blabbering about with skin products. Tell that to all those people who died of melanoma who were begging for products to protect them from the incoming radiation from the ozone hole. No you don't hear or give a fuck about them because they didn't live in the USA.

Watch the movie Robocop to see an example of the propaganda.

No one said the rain forests would be gone, stop spewing complete nonsense you fear mongering buffoon. The rain forests ARE in dire straights, and in need of immediate attention due to clear cutting practices and as you mentioned, oil companies and drilling!
Those same guys, they are lying to YOU about global warming, and you are to blind to see it! Unbelievable!

Im doing the fearmongering? Get the fuck outta here. It's Al Gore and his minions doing the fearmongering. Seen his latest book cover? It's the definition of scaremongering.
http://current.com/items/91514558_al-gore-published-photoshopped-images-in-our-choice.htm
I think predicting that Cuba, with a peak height of 6000 feet above sea level, would disappear is the definition of fearmongering.

Again, this is incorrect. Yes I am against the bankers, but I am against the people as well, for it is the people who let them stay in power. It is the people who don't vote them out of office, or even start a revolution if they have to. It is the people who gobble up corporate propaganda and sit idly by why those same groups shit down their throats. You want to know what is making people sick it is not mercury in the vaccines it is environmental pollution from the air, land, and water.

You'll have no argument from me over the laziness of the average citizen. America doesn't have a monopoly on that, I assure you. I look to the UK and see a country in far worse shape, on the near edge of Big Brother Fascism. Then I feel a little bit better about the state of my country. We can agree that the uninformed populous is a top problem.

Yes that's right, only rich elitists go to Ivy league schools you can't actually try very hard and be very lucky to get in one its all a big conspiracy yes sir you have it all figured out!

Just callin a spade a spade. Feel free to disagree. I just happen to notice that most slimy politicians, thieving bankers, and dishonest scientists came from Ivy League schools. They do have a fine elite indoctrination program.

I think that's all we need to know about itsgrowtime on ICmag; calls people commies, purports ludicrous conspiracy theories and pseudo scientific delusion.. Are you a McCarthyist or just Rush Limbaugh's biggest fan?

Taking tax money from sovereign Americans and literally giving that money to someone in another country under penalty of law is communism. The spectacular collapse of the USSR tends to make me worry about socialism and various versions. I do study history and the books do not shine brightly upon historically communist countries. The US got where it is (was?) by being the beacon of freedom. That is changing and it scares the shit out of me that people like yourself are setting policies for my country, but from half way across the world where you have no accountability for your decisions. I have enough trouble getting my Congress Rep to vote the right way already. This is the hallmark of communism/fascism, along with legalized theft, and I don't want it. I do not wish to live a 1980's Soviet existence. I do not wish to live 1920-1940 Germany either. But you elite types don't care about the average person so I don't imagine you can relate. This global warming nonsense is a method to further institute communism into American life.

Overall, I'm thrilled that this new information is flooding the internet and slowly getting MSM attention. That's more people that will learn to ignore emotional appeals and instead think about the big picture. Ok, so you think global warming is real. Great, gold star for you. I don't and we both have our reasons. But the more people that learn not to trust "officials" and instead question what they're told is a great step forward. Like I said before, you can't put this genie back in the bottle. No amount of insults on an internet forum is going to change that. You may be a smart guy but you sure can't see the big picture for shit.

 

[Kaneh]

I cant believe somebody can still argue about climate change.

Well, when I think about again, It's not first time people are believing crazy propaganda. This is how Exxon is helping us with climate change:

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/exxon-secrets